Tool list for a beginner

[coolgoose]

Hi Everyone!

Some of you know me from the post in Welcome section. I am new to model engineering I have been researching on the tools required and compiled a short list. Please advice me on the list below:

Lathe: 7X 12 or 7X14 haven’t decided which make to buy. Any suggestions here would definitely make my life easy. For past one week I am pulling my hair on coming to a conclusion on which lathe to buy. 9X and 10X are way bigger for me and I am not sure about 8X ones. I am planning to convert the spare bedroom into a tool room for the hobby so definitely the space is limited.

Lathe Accessories: What accessories do I need for the lathe?

Milling Attachment: Where can I get one? Is it absolutely required to make miniature internal combustion engines? I have decided not to get a milling machine until I become good with the lathe and build some confidence.

Measuring tools:

• Digital calipers: 4’’, 6’’ or 8’’ not sure. Any suggestions here on the make and the size?
• Digital Micrometer: 0-1’’. Any suggestions on make etc?
• Height Gauge: I guess it comes with the calipers
• Ruler
• Divider
• Scriber

Besides these listed here are there any other tools a beginner would need?


Thank You,
Sri.

 

[bearcar1]

Hi Sri, welcome aboard. If I may suggest it, a good drill press will go a long way towards your goal. Some of the bench top models (ones that do not stand on the floor) are very reasonably priced and do their intended job quite well. As far as the digital readout calipers and micrometers and such, personally I do not care for them because they seem to eat batteries in a hurry. I do own both but very rarely use them, instead I rely on the analog readout units, they do not require batteries and are every bit as accurate.

BC1
Jim

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Hello Sri,

If this is of any help...I started with nothing early last year...

I have a 7x12 and have yet to wish for a 7x14.
I haven't used a scriber yet.
The height gauge (and surface block) have been great.
I use digital calipers (6") and am starting to use a micrometer (1") for better accuracy.
Yet to use a divider.
I've used the (steel) ruler for gross measurements and to check the center of a cutting tool.
A dial indicator with magnetic stand is very handy for measuring the carriage distance, etc.
Reamers, drill bits...you'll soon find a quick change post very nice.
...back up...if you mean a pen-looking scriber then yes...not one of those gizmos that you adjust and sit on a stand.
taps and dies
I've been struggling with buying whole kits of things...seems they're less quality than buying one at a time. May seem more expensive...but you don't use many of the ones in the kit.

I haven't used a milling attachment. Soon after I got into this hobby I realized I was hooked and went for a small mill. A bit more cost there. Vise, end mills, parallels, spin indexer, rotary table.

It looks daunting at first...but if you find yourself staying with the hobby..you'll be happy. If not...we're always looking for a deal. ;D

 

[Tin Falcon]

Lathe Accessories: What accessories do I need for the lathe?

Drill chuck with Morse taper
live center
QC tool holder you will use it all the time
4 jaw chuck
center drills
drill bits or set
Dial indicator with holder

Milling adapter here
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1681&category=1


I would suggest you get a regular Micrometer and learn to read it. back up your measurement with a digital caliper IMHO 6" is the best size for home shop.
If you really want a digital mic IMHO just about any brand will work Mine is from Harbor freight bottom of the barrel brand and still works fine.

If you are getting a height gage you need a flat surface to put it on a i have a

12 x 18 granite import.
As far as batteries I have several digital calipers and digital indicators. I bough a bunch of batteries from SR44. com they are name brand and last well. do not get lr44s they do not last and do not pay $$ each for them at wally world.
A square is great to have.
And I like my Optical center punch if you have a sharp punch and good feel you can do with out one.
A set of jenny calipers AKA hermaphrodite calipers are also good to have.
Tin

 

[JackG]

Some other tools that quickly come to mind and that I've found very useful are:

- Combination square
- Wiggler
- Edge finder
- A bottle of layout fluid
- Calipers (inside and outside) plus a hermaphrodite caliper
- Number fractional drill bits
- Starrett Last Word Indicator (I use it all the time - Bought at an antique mall)
- Base for the above

Sounds like a lot, but I bought most of my small measuring tools at antique malls or on EBay (I like antique shops better because I can look the tool over before buying). I've bought top of the line brands like Starrett fairly inexpensively. Their old, but they work.


Jack

 

[Troutsqueezer]

Get a de-burring tool. Keeps you from measuring incorrectly and keeps your fingers from splitting open when rubbing along the sharp edges. Safety and accuracy, all for a couple of bucks.

 

[kcmillin]

Here is my two bits on the measuring equipment.

Digital measuring devices are easier and quicker to read, however I prefer to use the analog readouts. I find it much easier to see where you are, and how far you have to go. I have used DRO's and still prefer to put a dial indicator on the carriage. This is so I can easily see how fast I am coming up to my mark, and can easily judge when to stop the carriage. Watching the needle I can stop the carriage within .002" with no problem, and then finish under hand feed.

If I learned one thing about making parts its that your machines are only as accurate as the tools you use to measure with. That being said, I would only use a caliper to get en estimate of where your at, and then use your micrometer to get the absolute measurement. The most expensive caliper you can buy is only accurate to within +/- .001". That may not seem like a lot, but sometimes that is the difference between a scrap bin addition and a fitting part. A micrometer is ten times more accurate than a caliper.

I noticed a dramatic change in my accuracy when I switched from a caliper to a micrometer. Parts actually fit.

Kel

 

[shred]

I've yet to use my combination-square or dividers, yet other people say they're must haves. There's a lesson there... some work requires some tools, some does not, and there are a lot of ways to skin many of the felines we deal with.

With just a lathe, you'll be spending a lot of time getting good with the 4-jaw, so a DTI and/or DI will be needed. I love my digital calipers and mic, but get analog DI's. You'll also be doing a good bit of filing, so some good files are called for.

Next up is some toolbits and a bench grinder. Center drills and regular drills. The letter ones are rarely used, the numbers get used a lot in small engines and small drilling and tapping.

Buy good tools for the ones you'll use constantly. You can get by with cheapies for the rare-use tools if funds are short. I'd suggest starting with a small set and building as needs arise versus getting a big kit to start.

 

[coolgoose]

Thanks Bearcar1 for suggesting Drill Press. I have added it to my list.

Zeeprogrammer what is a surface block?

Tin Falcon thanks for suggesting the lathe accessories. What is a QC Tool Holder? What are the benefits of using a 4 jaw chuck? (I can think on top of my head ..one extra jaw hence better grip than a 3 Jaw one).

Jack G: What is a wiggler?

Thank You very much Pat J for the files and the list.

Thank You Kel for the advice on Calipers vs Micrometer (I will definitely keep that in mind)

Shred: What is a DTI or DI?

Thanks a lot guys for giving me all this info :bow:

One area I have big confusion is on which lathe to buy! can some one suggest me a good 7X12 or 7X14 lathe?

 

[steamer]

Micrometers as has already been stated, are a great value for the buck.

If/when you buy them, get ones with a "ratchet barrel" and a tenth (.0001")
verinier if they are mechanical. If you get digital, go with 50 millionths display resolution. If you do this , you will never need to replace them

They are so cheap now, that you really can't afford to be without them.
Even the far eastern ones aren't bad...Though I would suggest Starrett or Mitutoyo....You never regret buying good tools.

Watch the various MSC and ENCO tool sales flyers, they have great deals.

As far as lathes are concerned, get the biggest and best that you can afford. I operate on the rule that a big lathe can do little work, but not the other way around. I would opt for the longer bed if it were up to me.

Micromark , from what I am told has done the 7X well, but I don't own one so I'll defer.

I will let the other responders answer to their specific recommendations

Glad your here and happy machining!

Dave

 

[Tin Falcon]

As far as elctronic digital mics look here
http://www.validusgroup.com/Precision-Digital-Outside-Micrometer-0-1-x-00005-P514C185.aspx

Tin Falcon thanks for suggesting the lathe accessories. What is a QC Tool Holder? What are the benefits of using a 4 jaw chuck? (I can think on top of my head ..one extra jaw hence better grip than a 3 Jaw one).

A Quick change tool holder

These allow for quickly changing from one cutting bit to another.
A simple hat bushing will require:
1 facing
2 turning to a shoulder
3 drilling
4 boring
5 parting
you are talking about 3 tool changes minimum for the one part.
a QC holder makes tool setup and changes faster and easier.

A 4 jaw chuck has independent jaws
the typical uses are
holding square or rectangular stock for turning
turning eccentrics (these are typical in many steam engine designs)
Allows for precise centering of parts
allows for machining off center of part
Allows holding of some odd shapes
Forrest Addy recommends beginners use a 4 jaw for a year just to get used to how to use it.
The disadvantage with a 4 jaw is it takes longer to set up the parts on center.
FYI the old craftsman lathes came only with a 4 jaw chuck the 3 jaw was an option.

If you want better grip and more consistent grip that is where a 6 jaw comes in. But a 6 jaw is expensive and usualy found in pro shops that do precision work not in the Home shop.




Tin

 

[zeeprogrammer]

I called it a surface block but the proper term might be surface plate.
It's a very very flat piece of stone for using measuring devices like a height gauge on. Here's a link to the one I got.

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3068&category=

 

[shred]

Shred: What is a DTI or DI?

Dial Indicator and Dial Test Indicator. They both have needles that spin around and measure how far the tip is pushed, but DI's are usually 1" travel and DTIs are usually 0.1" travel. They're also usually 10x as accurate. Both are used at different times. The $20 DI's from Harbor Freight have been decent for me.

Poke around for 'centering stock in a 4-jaw' to see one key use on a lathe.

As for the 7x lathes, there are a few web sites dedicated to them that are probably worth seeking out to find the latest on brands and features and deals.

Dial Indicator:

Dial Test Indicator:

Both images from LittleMachineShop.com, a good place to shop & learn about such things.

 

[kcmillin]

With all the talk on Dial Indicators I would also recommend a 2" travel Dial Indicator. I use this as a "DRO" for every setup on the lathe. The extended reach and range is priceless.

Get yourself a MINI MAG magnetic indicator holder. It can hold the indicator very rigidly and square to the ways. Enco offers a set with a 2" travel indicator and a mini mag for about $25 USA. You will not regret your purchase.

Kel

 

[rleete]

Man, you retired guys sure do have deep pockets. Surface plates? Deburring tools? QCTP?

Sure, they're nice to have, but a piece of countertop, a file and the stock TP will do for starting out.

 

[Tin Falcon]

CG if you really want to get more confused than we have made you. Head north for about 2 hours to http://grizzly.com/ Grizzly Industrial show room. HQ in Bellingham WA they carry a full line of SEIG import machines, accessories etc. You can get a look and feel of the stuff before you buy and there is probably a retired machinist sales person to help you. I have a couple of Grizzly machines and they are good machines once tweaked. If you pick up at the show room you can do an initial inspection before leaving the lot and you save probably close to $100 in shipping costs. I have made it to the east coast show room a couple times.
Call or go on line and they will send a nice catalog or pick one up when you visit.
FYI certain items the shipping can be a killer
a 12 x 18 surface plate is $ 29 the shipping is $44 (80 lbs
an 18 X18 is also $29 but the shipping is $74 (120 lbs)this is where living within driving distance to these suppliers comes in handy. Especially when it comes to heavy things like machines surface places and materials.
Tin

 

[1hand]

CG if you really want to get more confused than we have made you. Head north for about 2 hours to http://grizzly.com/ Grizzly Industrial show room. HQ in Bellingham WA they carry a full line of SEIG import machines, accessories etc. You can get a look and feel of the stuff before you buy and there is probably a retired machinist sales person to help you. I have a couple of Grizzly machines and they are good machines once tweaked. If you pick up at the show room you can do an initial inspection before leaving the lot and you save probably close to $100 in shipping costs. I have made it to the east coast show room a couple times.
Call or go on line and they will send a nice catalog or pick one up when you visit.
Tin

I agree with Tin, I purchased all Grizzly machines tool boxes and most of the first tooling. They sell a good product and when I did have problems with something they took care of it for me right over the phone.

Matt

 

[Tin Falcon]

Man, you retired guys sure do have deep pockets. Surface plates? Deburring tools? QCTP?

Sure, they're nice to have, but a piece of countertop, a file and the stock TP will do for starting out.

It is a matter of priority and budget. A derburing tool is IIRC $ 5 easier than a file and usable for holes.
a surface plate $30 if picked up at the distributor and a QCTP will be used all the time. yes a stock one is usable if you tape shims to your tools and making a boring bar holder is not hard to do .But in my opinion stock tool holders are a PITA and slow down the learning process. If you have to choose between the $90 for a QCTP and say cutting bits , boring bars ,drill bits , drill chuck etc. yes the QCTP will have to wait. Also the live center can wait, a dead center will suffice. I started on a very limited budget myself and had to make the machine pay for itself and pay for upgrades. Maybe I forgot How I started ??
There is no right or wrong way to start this hobby. Budgets , experience , geography etc are all different. each one has to decide what is right for themselves.
Tin

 

[JackG]

A wiggler is a kind of center finder. See the below Wikipedia link which can explain it better than I can. There are two types, I use both.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiggler_(tool)

Re deep pockets... Like I said earlier, look on EBay or in antique malls. You can find top of the line used machinist tools, in good shape (they might have someone's initials scratched in, but they work just fine) fairly inexpensively.

 

[rleete]

There is no right or wrong way to start this hobby. Budgets , experience , geography etc are all different. each one has to decide what is right for themselves.

Yes, absolutely. And if you consider that most newbies asking this type of question are kids, it's a huge decision. Look at it from the point of someone who is fascinated by the mechanical stuff he sees on the web, but has no idea where to start and how deep he can get into it. If you're 16 or 17, maybe have a part time job and some spending cash, 300-400 bucks for a lathe is a pretty big purchase. If they go online and find a forum like us, only to be told they "need" 3-4 hundred more in tooling just to get started, chances are the dream dies right there.

Go on a site like LMS and start adding up the stuff you'd like to have. It's easy for a beginner to get caught up buying stuff like parallels, when we all know you can get by with less. That financial leap necessary is a big comitment for someone starting out.

Better to be told it can be done with less cash outlay, if they are willing to put in a little more effort. Then, if they succeed, they can start building up the tooling.