Super Adept Lathes

[Gunner_Wells]

Hello! My first post to the group, and a plea for help please. I want to mount a small 3/8" drill chuck on my ancient Super Adept lathe, which has a non-standard tailstock socket - it is even smaller than MT0! Has anyone else managed to do this please, and if so, how?

Thanks,

TonyW.

 

[RichD]

Gunner,
Do you have more info or pictures to offer? If you have another accessory such as a dead center that fits the tailstock you should be able to duplicate the taper.

There also is a method for measuring a taper by dropping two ball bearings of known different sizes into the tailstock socket (one at a time of course) then measuring the difference in depths with a depth gauge.

For example:
First ball .250" OD
Second ball .500"OD
Measure from face of socket to small ball and add the radius (.125) of the ball (write it down)
Remove the ball
Measure from face of socket to bigger ball and add the radius (.250) of the ball (write it down)
Remove the ball
Subtract the smaller number from the bigger number.

Now you now the distance between the two known diameters and should be able to calculate the taper per foot from that information:
big-small/length=taper per inch
taper per inch*12 =taper per foot
Look up your taper per inch number in a table of sines/tangents etc. (looking for the same sine number)
Half of that sine is the half-angle
That is how far to set over the compound angle to cut the taper.

Hopefully someone will chime in to correct me if any of this is incorrect.
Good luck,
Rich

 

[mklotz]

I think you want the arctangent rather than the arcsine.

A program for doing all the necessary calculations is available on my webpage. Look for the FTAPER.ZIP archive.

 

[Ned Ludd]

At last I have something to contribute.
I made a drill chuck arbour for a Super Adept and also a live centre for the same.
From memory the taper is the small end of a "0" morse. The only practical way to do the taper is by trial and error. Start with the top slide at 1 1/2 degrees and keep trying in the TS quill.till you get the right taper. Permanent markers like Sharpies are excellent for testing tapers. Once you get it right, do make a few spares!
I would not suggest using the ball method for checking this particular taper, there is too much of a chance to get them stuck in the hole, besides if you don't have a taper turning attachment there is little point.

I would put up some pictures of the live centre but the wretched thing was so small that it slipped out of my pocket and got lost, the only proof now of its existence is a picture in the SMEE journal and i can't find that issue either. Shame it got lost, it really was a sweet little thing all in stainless (except needle and thrust bearings), much too small to allowed out by itself, but such is life.
Ned Ludd

 

[RichD]

I think you want the arctangent rather than the arcsine.

A program for doing all the necessary calculations is available on my webpage. Look for the FTAPER.ZIP archive.

Thanks Marv,
I actually wrote a similar program but in my post from memory I forgot that important point (ArcTan)
Rich

 

[mklotz]

I would not suggest using the ball method for checking this particular taper, there is too much of a chance to get them stuck in the hole, besides if you don't have a taper turning attachment there is little point.

If you're worried about balls getting stuck, you can use cylindrical rods instead.

Once you know the angle, you can set the compound to that angle using a DTI and a cylindrical rod in the chuck. No, it won't be perfect. You'll still have to spot it and adjust but at least you'll be starting from a point very close to the required value.

 

[miker]

Tony, it says under the tailstock photo that the taper is a Morse 0!

http://www.lathes.co.uk/adept/page4.html

Might be worth asking for info here...

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/

Where are you located? Which Country at least?

Oh, and WELCOME to the forum!!!

 

[Dan Rowe]

About half way down this page it is stated that the taper is 0 Morse but standard tooling will not work.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/adept.htm

Dan

 

[miker]

From the link Dan posted, would this info be enough for the math savvy people to work out how to make the taper?

"Tailstock and mandrel have 0MT-angled tapers but regular 0MT tooling will not fit. This is because, in order to get a socket in a tiny 3/8” mandrel, Fred Portass extended the small end of 0MT so that his sockets, while the right inches-per-foot taper for 0MT, have a large diameter of ¼ inch while the small end of a standard 0MT taper plug is 0.252 inches. "

Thanks Dan.

 

[RichD]

I looked up the half-angle for #0 Morse Taper

1.4908° (this would be the compound angle from parallel with the lathe axis)
Taper per foot is 0.6246"

For your lathe the Big end=.250" (from the other posts)

Rich

 

[tel]

Oddly enough, I was discussing this problem with a bloke just last night. If you have an existing centre with a fitting taper, by far the easiest method is to use that to set up your top slide to cut the taper.

Chuck a bit of something, face it off and drill a smallish 60° centre. Engage the point of your centre in this and run another centre, held in the tail stock, into the rear of the the piece. Now it is a simple matter to adjust your top slide until a dti will track back and forth along the taper with no deviation (we don't want any deviants here). Where you might run into a bit of bother is holding the workpiece t'other way round to do the Jacobs taper (or whatever the chuck needs) on the other end. You could remove the tail stock barrel and use that as a holding fixture.

Just remember, doing the impossible just takes a bit longer, that's all.

 

[Tin Falcon]

would this help ???
http://www.sherline.com/3051pg.htm
Tin

 

[tel]

That's not a bad idea Tin, one could hold it by the fat bit and get the taper running true, then set the top slide as per above and whittle it down to the required undersize.