Starret Scribers,Scriber sharpening and scribed lines

[gus]

Hi Gurus,
Please contribute your 2 cents worth.
I don't deny being taught badly in Trade School and marking out jobs. Or perhaps I was a bad student.

1. I bought two expensive Starret Scribers to start all over again.
How would a professional tool maker sharpen scribers? Go to bench Grinder
Use oils stones to hand sharpen. How pointed should the scriber points be.
2. Would the hardened scriber point eventually run out and a heat treatment
done to restore.

3. Marking out. I don't deny using brute force to get deepest scribed line.

4. Also bought Starret Drill Point Gage to check out my free hand grinding.
Some twist drills cut on one side. Others not too bad if I take time to eye
drill point.

 

[Lew Hartswick]

Well I'd never get near a "grinder" with a scribe unless your [ I don't deny using brute force to get deepest scribed line.] actually broke the point off. Why do you need such a deep scribed line.? It only has to get through the layout ink.
...lew...

 

[Brian Rupnow]

Gus--I too am guilty of deep scribe lines. I use layout dye and scribe lines on almost everything I do. Then when the parts are finished I have to spend a lot of time sanding the scribe lines out. For my money, use the shallowest scribe lines that you can still clearly see. I have a cheap scriber that came with a set of squares from BusyBee tools. It is simply a piece of .093" dia. drill rod with an aluminum handle. Whenever ir gets dull, I walk over to my grinder and rotate it carefully on the grinding wheel untill the point is restored.

 

[MuellerNick]

Make the scribe lines only where necessary. Then they will disappear after boring the hole etc. If you draw the line all over the work … well, don't complain afterwards. When I was taught scribing, they measured the width of the scribe line. 5 mm, not more!

Regrinding a scriber:
Well, quite pointy. Maybe 20°? Grind it lengthwise! Point the point downwards, go over the grinding wheel with the scriber more or less pointing vertically down and rotate the scriber. Like when grinding TIG electrodes.


Nick

 

[GWRdriver]

Well I'd never get near a "grinder" with a scribe

Nor would I. My scribers have removable steel (not carbide) points, so when I need to dress dull points I chuck them in the lathe and at a slow speed gently apply a very fine grit paper abrasive disk in my Dremel tool to the point. Afterward I'll draw each one across and Arkansas stone a few times, rotating the point as I draw.

 

[chipenter]

I have a 4 inch diamond wheel on my off hand grinder , scriber point does not get as hot works a treat .

 

[Alchymist]

OK, don't laugh, but I use the Harbor freight mini bench grinder for delicate work. The stone is quite fine and works a treat for sharpening scribes.

http://www.harborfreight.com/bench-grinder-with-flex-shaft-43533.html

 

[Walsheng]

I have been using an India stone for the last 40 years and spin it by hand. I have some 1/2" square fine and course stones and if the point is very dull, (usually when someone else has used them with brute force) I start with course and then use fine.
Be careful using a grinder, it doesn't take much to overheat that fine point and take the hardness out.

John

 

[gus]

Hi Guys,

Pardon me. Did I open a can of worms on scribed lines and scriber sharpening? We have confession of guilt and "Mea Culpa ,Mea Culpa. Mea Maxi Culpa" Ha Ha Ha.

To condition the Starret Scibers,I used Japanese Alumina Water Stones to hand sharpen.Previously I cautiously n light touch up Eclipse Scriber. Scriber Point did not lose temper and hardness. One problem arose.I misplaced same. Did it go to waste bin???

I have yet to see n witness a professional Tool Maker Scribe lines. Am sure among our forum members there has got to be Tool Makerss. Hi Gurus .Please speak up. A video would be very heplful.

 

[Generatorgus]

Hi Guys,

Pardon me. Did I open a can of worms on scribed lines and scriber sharpening? We have confession of guilt and "Mea Culpa ,Mea Culpa. Mea Maxi Culpa" Ha Ha Ha.

To condition the Starret Scibers,I used Japanese Alumina Water Stones to hand sharpen.Previously I cautiously n light touch up Eclipse Scriber. Scriber Point did not lose temper and hardness. One problem arose.I misplaced same. Did it go to waste bin???

I have yet to see n witness a professional Tool Maker Scribe lines. Am sure among our forum members there has got to be Tool Makerss. Hi Gurus .Please speak up. A video would be very heplful.

Gus
I share your thoughts on the subject. Everything I try to layout looks like preschoolers on the loose got into my shop.

The other GUS

 

[gus]

Gus
I share your thoughts on the subject. Everything I try to layout looks like preschoolers on the loose got into my shop.

The other GUS

Hi The other Gus.

I like it.

A customer of mine was trained in G.Motors.Johannesburg,S.Africa. He did his apprenticeship In Tool Making.After the first three months ,he wanted to throw in the towel. The Maestros were a mixed bunch----Dutch,German,British etc and even Russians.All have one common trait----
very clean,tidy,meticulous,fussy and hard to please. You are taught to hold the hammer and chisel and hacksaw and file their way. No deviation.

Today 20 years later,he can still saw/chisel/file/scrape perfectly.Treats his desk as work bench with every item in its place.

OK I just bought a Starret Drill Point Gage to audit and improve my drill bit grinding.
I have too many drills cutting on one side.

 

[ShopShoe]

Gus,

I have been known to "touch up" (take the term in your context) my scriber point with a diamond hand hone. I also use these on HSS toolbits without having to remove them from the lathe.

I have more than one scriber, including one with replaceable points, one point is sharpened as a blade (flat, not like a pencil point) as my old-timer woodshop teacher taught me for wood marking guages many years ago.

See:

http://eze-lap.com/woodworking_shop_machine_use/hone-stone

--ShopShoe

 

[ShopShoe]

Just had another thought:

I sometimes have ugly, clumpy results and poor scribing due to the Dychem not drying evenly due to the unregulated temperature and humidity in my shop. Could that also be a factor in Gus's situation?

Does someone know of an additive for Dychem (Yes, the commercial product, I have a decade's supply due to a clerical error.) for differing climates.

--ShopShoe

 

[Walsheng]

Hi Guys,

Pardon me. Did I open a can of worms on scribed lines and scriber sharpening? We have confession of guilt and "Mea Culpa ,Mea Culpa. Mea Maxi Culpa" Ha Ha Ha.

To condition the Starret Scibers,I used Japanese Alumina Water Stones to hand sharpen.Previously I cautiously n light touch up Eclipse Scriber. Scriber Point did not lose temper and hardness. One problem arose.I misplaced same. Did it go to waste bin???

I have yet to see n witness a professional Tool Maker Scribe lines. Am sure among our forum members there has got to be Tool Makerss. Hi Gurus .Please speak up. A video would be very heplful.

No can of worms, just a good question.
I started in the toolmaking business in 1972 and spent many years designing and building molds for the platic industry. Can't count how many apprentices I trained over the years. Maybe I qualify as a professional toolmaker!
When I started we did not have any CNC or digital readouts for that matter so I ALWAYS used scribe lines for a visual reference. And I still use scribe lines as a double check. Nothing worse than spending hours or days working on a piece of steel and scrap it because of a backlash issue or just a brain cramp.

John

 

[gus]

No can of worms, just a good question.
I started in the toolmaking business in 1972 and spent many years designing and building molds for the platic industry. Can't count how many apprentices I trained over the years. Maybe I qualify as a professional toolmaker!
When I started we did not have any CNC or digital readouts for that matter so I ALWAYS used scribe lines for a visual reference. And I still use scribe lines as a double check. Nothing worse than spending hours or days working on a piece of steel and scrap it because of a backlash issue or just a brain cramp.

John

OK I found the Maestro Tool maker. Please enlighten us on scribers,scribed lines,centre popping and drilling holes "spot on" the Tool Maker's way.

It is true the CNC FMS production like can finish a mold in less than 24 hours
but final fitting and finishing is done by Tool makers. Went to my classmate's
"Mold Factory" to watch molds being machined and tranferred from one machine to another down the line. Just mind shattering.
Always admired Tool Makers for their dedication and work. A young apprentice just got to adjust and fit in. Skills are learned,acquired,practiced upon to perfection. Tools are very personal.
Recalled a very old Tool Maker removing and taking home all his personal tools.He just could not bear leaving them behind.
w/o leaving a single tool behind.

Traditional Tool Makers Chest. Wanted to buy one of this from UK but they won't ship to Singapore.Looks like I have to make one myself but my carpentry is just " Can Do".

 

[Walsheng]

OK I found the Maestro Tool maker. Please enlighten us on scribers,scribed lines,centre popping and drilling holes "spot on" the Tool Maker's way.

It is true the CNC FMS production like can finish a mold in less than 24 hours
but final fitting and finishing is done by Tool makers. Went to my classmate's
"Mold Factory" to watch molds being machined and tranferred from one machine to another down the line. Just mind shattering.
Always admired Tool Makers for their dedication and work. A young apprentice just got to adjust and fit in. Skills are learned,acquired,practiced upon to perfection. Tools are very personal.
Recalled a very old Tool Maker removing and taking home all his personal tools.He just could not bear leaving them behind.
w/o leaving a single tool behind.

Traditional Tool Makers Chest. Wanted to buy one of this from UK but they won't ship to Singapore.Looks like I have to make one myself but my carpentry is just " Can Do".

I don't know about "Maestro" but I've made a few chips. The best advice I can give about machining to a scribe line is - DON'T. Use them as a reference and double check only. Leave that bit of art to woodworking!

I learned to build molds the old fashion way, pre-CNC, and there was a lot of fitting and hand work. The molds built in the new shops are designed and tolereanced to fit together amazingly well. The skill then becomes in the design and programming.

Traditional tool makers chest. Gerstner-International.com has a line of chests that are made in China. I have seen them and they are pretty good for the price. I know Sears carries them.

John

 

[Swifty]

Started my toolmaking apprenticeship in 1970 and everyone always ground their scribers using the white wheels that are used on the surface grinders. Always seemed to hold their sharpness. Currently use a carbide tipped scriber when it's needed.

Paul.

 

[gus]

Just had another thought:

I sometimes have ugly, clumpy results and poor scribing due to the Dychem not drying evenly due to the unregulated temperature and humidity in my shop. Could that also be a factor in Gus's situation?

Does someone know of an additive for Dychem (Yes, the commercial product, I have a decade's supply due to a clerical error.) for differing climates.

--ShopShoe

I used Staedtler Permanent marker which dries fast but smudges with Tapmatic Oil which I use as lube oil and coolant. Bought a Spray Can of Crown USA Toolmakers Ink Blue. Dries quickly,no flaking and heat resistant.
12 years Ingersoll-Rand paid it .Today Gus pays for it .Cost me a bomb.Will try out and revert tomorrow as I mark the Boring Head.
This forum been fun.So horse trading .Oops Info trading.

 

[gus]

Hi Paul,

ToolMakers are my heros for their dedication to perfection in their workmanship,precision and finishing.Sincerely wished We had ToolMakers as our Trade School Instructors in 1961. We were taught by second grade tradesmen.So we picked up their bad habits.

Thanks for the tip. My Eclipse UK Scriber also gets sharpened on the bench grinder with very light touches just to ensure not losing their hardness. The problem now,is I misplaced the scriber. Ha Ha. At 70,Gus gets forgetful.Ha Ha. But I am working on it. One question.Does the point need to be needle sharp.And how hard do we have to scribe (Or Scatch) lines.

 

[Swifty]

Hi Gus, I think that the scriber point has to be a compromise, not too pointy and thin or it won't stand up long, but still thin enough to leave a nice clean line. Hardness is of course an important issue, tempered enough to avoid the point breaking off.
As an apprentice I had an eclipse scriber with both straight and bent ends, no idea what happened to it. Later on I made scribers out of silver steel (drill rod), and after that I silver soldered 1/16" dia carbide rod into a piece of silver steel and ground it on a diamond wheel, I still use that scriber today.

Paul.