Spinforming---

[Brian Rupnow]

As some of you may know, I have been consulting with a local company for the last 3 months, designing a spinforming machine. This is an amazing process, and a very interesting one. I have been asked to design the infeed system and the ejector system on what is actually a retrofit of an older machine. The project I am working on will be a fully automated machine, loaded and unloaded by a multi axis robot. The "raw material" is a 48" length of 8" diameter 4130 steel pipe, which is heated on one end to 2400 degrees F and then "spinformed" by a 10" diameter pressure wheel following a CNC path, to form the pipe into an oxygen bottle. Although this is in no way a "model" engine, I know that members on this board will find it fascinating. I have attached a link to a very similar machine which was built in Germany, and is available as a public domain video footage on Youtube. I have completed all of the design aspect of this job, but I have numerous "purchased components" on order and being delivered early in the new year, and a number of large weldments which are being machined and fabricated by local shops in Ontario. The pipe will be spun at approximately 1000 RPM and one bottle will be produced every minute. On my machine, the pipes will already have the bottoms formed in a prior process before coming to have the "necked" portion formed. I am not at liberty to discuss my immediate customer, nor the intended production facility that this machine will end up in, other than the fact that it will be operating and producing bottles in the USA. Enjoy the video.-----Brian
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...DAAF2F214E8A7F63C4F2DAAF2F214E8A7&FORM=VIRE1#

 

[stevehuckss396]

You were right! That was cool as heck.

 

[Peter.]

That's cool I often wondered how they were formed.

I have a question for you Brian. In the video, the neck is made first then the bottom is formed. Whilst watching the video I was thinking this must be so that they can drill the neck so that the bottle isn't airtight when the base is done. Is this the case or does it not matter?

I thought it might be an issue but clearly if you say the base will be done first on yours it seems it must not be.

 

[Brian Rupnow]

Peter--As far as I know, it doesn't matter. There are no explosive nor burnable gasses trapped in the bottle by the forming process.

 

[Brian Rupnow]

Back in the 1960's when I was doing my apprenticeship in Belleville, Ontario, there was a place down by the river in Trenton, about 10 miles away that did spinforming of light sheet metal, mostly copper I think. In that process, there was a collapsible wooden pattern that the sheet metal was manually "persuaded" over with a lever mechanism, and once fully formed the key centerpeice of the wooden form was pulled out and the rest of the wooden form then would collapse and be removed through the open neck, which was smaller in diameter than the formed body, as in ornamental vases.
I used to watch through the windows and think what a neat process it was. The factory was right beside an A&W restruant, where the girls still wore roller skates and brought your burger out on a metal tray that hooked onto your car window.----Gawd, I'm old!!!!!

 

[Peter.]

Peter--As far as I know, it doesn't matter. There are no explosive nor burnable gasses trapped in the bottle by the forming process.

No, I meant from a point of view of a vaccum forming as the bottle cooled. Welders have problems welding the last bit of sealed containers sometimes, I was wondering if the same would happen in reverse, so to speak.

 

[dsquire]

Hi All

Great link showing how steel cylinders are made Brian. I have found a link that shows how aluminum diving tanks and medical oxygen tanks are made from billet aluminum using a combination of pressure and spinning to force it into shape.

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/OmSvbp2NFbc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Enjoy.

Cheers

Don

103​

 

[stevehuckss396]

In that process, there was a collapsible wooden pattern that the sheet metal was manually "persuaded" over with a lever mechanism

My buddy Louis still spins metal in his garage on the lathe using this process and some home made attachments.

 

[Ken I]

Brian, I once built a cold spin former for closing gas spring tubes using an ordinary NC lathe.
The design relied on a stud (or similar) being projection welded over the end to close the final pinhole we expected in the middle of the closure - the big surprise was we could spin form closed and sealed to 2000 psi - cold.

I've also been involved with some hot spinning but nothing as big as an oxygen bottle.

I presume the robot is doing all the heavy lifting ? I recently installed two 500kg payload monsters working as a pair rigidly connected to move a 1 tonne payload.

Have fun.

Ken

 

[smfr]

Here are some videos (warning: obnoxious music!) of folks spinning aluminum disks to make Tesla coil toroids:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quvLVeWS3N4[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIslwnsfq3g[/ame]

In this case the forms don't' have to be extracted through small holes though!

 

[smfr]

There's another spinning video on this page, this time of a vase where the form is broken down and extracted at the end: http://www.randystromsoe.com/videos/

Simon

 

[Brian Rupnow]

It never rains but what it pours---the design on the spinforming machine is finally finished---(The 3 weeks has turned into 3 months due to unforeseen issues and customer requested changes.) I hope to be there for another 3 to 4 weeks while all the designed parts trickle in from various machine and fab shops and the machine is assembled and test run. This morning I had two gentlemen from Guelph, Ontario show up at my door requesting that I design an automatic machine for them to cut profiled holes into the bases of aluminum door extrusions for a manufacturer of doors and door frames. Yesterday an old customer called and wants a complete reverse engineering operation performed on a new curb laying machine he has developed, and half an hour ago another design engineer with a private consulting business like mine called me up to see if I had time to engage in a long term project with him. I may have to clone myself!!!! Damn----Last year at this time I couldn't give work away!!!

 

[Noitoen]

I've seen making those cylinders out of plate discs and finally spinforming the top.
[ame=http://youtu.be/RFwFK4gR0Rw]http://youtu.be/RFwFK4gR0Rw[/ame]

 

[Brian Rupnow]

Well, the fat lady has almost finished her song on the spinforming machine. It still is a long way from finished, but 99% of the purchased components are "in house" . I am still waiting for four major weldments to be delivered, and I've got both machinists working like dogs on myriad machined parts. However, my work is finished from a design point of view. I will still go over to manage the project and oversee the assembly, but that is only going to account for about 25% of my week. BUT----I'm off to Brussels on Friday (The one in Ontario, not the one in Germany) to pick up a bunch of parts from a factory that wants an automatic machining center designed and possibly built. I don't build them, but I have "agreements" in place with a number of machine builders around Ontario. I have enjoyed getting up every morning and "Going to work".---What a novel concept after working out of my home office for the past ten years. I have really enjoyed it.---I have also enjoyed the downtime this week to get my head into the Donkey engine project here at home.----Brian

 

[mklotz]

I'm off to Brussels on Friday (The one in Ontario, not the one in Germany)

I think you'll find, Brian, that, after the war, the Germans gave Brussels back to the Belgians.

 

[Brian Rupnow]

Sorry Marv---From where I set on this side of the world its all Germany to me!!!

 

[Peter.]

That won't endear you to many of us Brit's, Brian

 

[Brian Rupnow]

Peter--No disrespect intended. In fact, my father spent from 1939 to 1945 helping you Brits decide what was and was not Germany. I simply meant that from this side of the world Germany, Belgium. Luxembourg, that whole grouping of countries is more or less "all Germany" to me. I am much more aware of where all you UK chaps hang your hats. No disrespect to the Germans out there either. The name Rupnow comes form Prussia about 6 generations back.----Brian Rupnow

 

[Peter.]

No offence Brian - I was only YANKing yer chain