Space driven decision 3 in 1 Lathe Mill

[Wizard69]

Well you see, in part one of my thoughts about getting some of those 3 in 1 I proposed was that since they have actual milling towers I could eventually detach them if I found more convenient to have two machines. I still see logic in this, but there are such amount of negative opinions in 3 in 1s that prefer to trust the wisdom here.



Best.



Ramon.

Realize that everyone has opinions that they tend to express here. Look long enough and you will find somebody happy with a 3in1. There are three major issues with 3in1s:
1. The build quality on many of them is wanting.
2. The milling capacity is often very limited.
3. Finally you often want to keep a setup on one machine function when you need to use another machine function. This can really kill process flow.


Also consider this, cheap milling machines for model engineering are a recent development. For years the model engineer survived with just a high quality lathe. Use of faceplates and milling attachments kept many a model engineer going for years.

 

[bazmak]

I agree wizard,as a model engineer for years I could not afford a mill
and made do with the lathe and vertical slide etc
I bought my first mill recently a sieg sx2l and would not go back
Its the bottom of end of the mill market but what a diiference
Even for a small mill its far superior to lathe/mill and what a bonus
to be able to exit the lathe without disturbing the setting and go straight to the mill.Trouble is you get spoilt,i get impatient just changing from milling cutter
to drill chuck even though it only takes a couple of minutes.And the mill was say a nom $1000 and the lathe the same,the combination machine works
out at say $1500. Its A no brainer and don't say you have no room
I now have the bigger lathe Sc4 and the mill,bandsaw,linisher and grinders
as well as a welder all set to go in a 1.5m x 4m shed

 

[goldstar31]

Realize that everyone has opinions that they tend to express here. Look long enough and you will find somebody happy with a 3in1. There are three major issues with 3in1s:
1. The build quality on many of them is wanting.
2. The milling capacity is often very limited.
3. Finally you often want to keep a setup on one machine function when you need to use another machine function. This can really kill process flow.


Also consider this, cheap milling machines for model engineering are a recent development. For years the model engineer survived with just a high quality lathe. Use of faceplates and milling attachments kept many a model engineer going for years.

Of course W69 is so right. Actually he is even 'righter than right' because 3 in 1 lathes were commonplace in ship's engine rooms. Today, bargain basement lathes - whatever type and origin are expected to achieve miracles and the poor little things have only a really limited three jaw.
I wrote to MechMan183 exactly reminding him of the problems. Whether he or anyone else does anything about it, is up to them.

Yesterday I was buying a NVR switch to replace one with asbestos in it:wall: I inspected a set of new lathes and one was nowhere near the quality of my little Myford and the available tooling was 'zilch' or whatever the present expression is.

The answer is stark. One can buy good quality new stuff today but it still needs the ability to accept that it is going to cost a lot of money. It did in the past.

Bluntly, those who expect bargains using their limited experience are going to fill up pages here and eventually wander off East to look for the next miracle.



Oh and my little £500 ancient Myford with all those faceplates and chucks and vertigo slides and whatever is now working.

Happy Easter


Norman

 

[bazmak]

Hi Norm,you are usually right.I have had 6 myford lathes,ranging from
the ML10 to the super 7 with gearbox.To my mind the oldest and one of the best lathes on the market.Would love another if I had the room
However I am very impressed with the cheap chinese lathes Namely Sieg
Big advantages are COst ,size/weight and lower noise with the variable speed motor.Myford had more grunt and noise due to gears but was far supierior
in build quality.Sadly no room for 2.My last Ml7R was almost unused with
more attachments than than everything I have ever owned See p hoto

 

[rsuarez]

Hi Ramon

Are you by any chance from IFDC?

Hi Rhynardt, no I work for an american tech company overseeing their Latin-American business.

Its A no brainer and don't say you have no room
I now have the bigger lathe Sc4 and the mill,bandsaw,linisher and grinders
as well as a welder all set to go in a 1.5m x 4m shed

Bazmak, I guess that yes, I do have space, but my concern is that I must leave free working space since not all my projects are mini. Look at this one... Then I needed space for the chasis, the tank and all the bits. It gets really tight.

The answer is stark. One can buy good quality new stuff today but it still needs the ability to accept that it is going to cost a lot of money. It did in the past.

Bluntly, those who expect bargains using their limited experience are going to fill up pages here and eventually wander off East to look for the next miracle.

Norman, I really try to stick to the "Listen, Learn, Ask" drill. I am certain I know nothing about machines and machinery but going to your answer, thats what I would like to know... Which are those quality equipments I should be looking at? Getting something used is not really good option to me since Mexico's used market is very limited and legislation is very tough on used imported stuff.

I Called Grainger Mexico and they have discontinued the Optimum imports... It was too good to be true. It also seems that there is limited offer of Optimum in the US. I found that the ones from Bolton Tools and Palmgren seem to be the same lathes that the Optimum but who knows if the quality checks are the same... or even if they are copies.

Help please.

Ramon

 

[goldstar31]

Probably, I'd follow Bazmak ( Barry) if I were you. I feel that his advice is sound. I'm in a very different position with age, experience and money coupled with being in the UK rather than elsewhere.

However I hope to read how your new workshop is progressing and hope that you will enjoy it as much as I still do with mine.

I'm almost 86 and claim to be somewhat different.

Salud Pesetas!

Don Norman

 

[bazmak]

If you have an 8ft wide shed then its twice my size.A bench on 1 or more walls
to sit the lathe and mill etc leaves more working space,all problems to overcome

 

[rsuarez]

Probably, I'd follow Bazmak ( Barry) if I were you. I feel that his advice is sound. I'm in a very different position with age, experience and money coupled with being in the UK rather than elsewhere.

However I hope to read how your new workshop is progressing and hope that you will enjoy it as much as I still do with mine.

I'm almost 86 and claim to be somewhat different.

Salud Pesetas!

Don Norman

Gracias Señor Norman. I guess you represent what many of us aspire to. Retirement with a nice shop and time to go over different projects. I wish I could reach your age and still work on my stuff...


There is white smoke already. I will go with a Sieg SC4 and a mini mill. It's smaller than originally planned but I will be fine. The reviews seem to be good also. Now I just have to figure out how to import them into Mexico.

Thanks to all. I will keep you posted on the progress.

Ramon

 

[bazmak]

Hi Ramon,i have the SC4 and very happy with it.I also have the sx2 mill
with longer table and fixed column and R8 quill.Very happy with it but I have raised the column to give me 10" z axis travel The x axis has 12" travel but some more would be nice as with the y axis.Depends what you will be making

 

[1dbweldor]

rsuarez
What's with the CBX engine? I have a lot of hotrod parts for these from back in the day. I mean cranks, rods, cams, valves, springs, and pistons. These things would sing if done properly.

 

[rsuarez]

Hi Ramon,i have the SC4 and very happy with it.I also have the sx2 mill
with longer table and fixed column and R8 quill.Very happy with it but I have raised the column to give me 10" z axis travel The x axis has 12" travel but some more would be nice as with the y axis.Depends what you will be making

Thanks Bazmak, thats the way I will go.

I don't want to be the noob that wants everything already peeled but since we are already here I will ask. For the lathe and the mill what would you recommend as "starter kit" accessories/tools?

rsuarez
What's with the CBX engine? I have a lot of hotrod parts for these from back in the day. I mean cranks, rods, cams, valves, springs, and pistons. These things would sing if done properly.

Hey, I bought that bike around a year and a half ago. Like in any old bike we optimistically buy, initial inspection seemed not so bad but as soon as I got into the first cam chain and vale adjustment that very fast went into a complete engine rebuild.

This engine is not tuned... no need frankly as it is one of the bikes I use to commute. It just have a 6 onto 2 open exhaust that makes the most beautiful note an engine can make.

I bet those bits you have laying around must have their value now. Either you sell them or you buy a CBX to make a good use of them. I would go for the second.

Ramon

 

[1dbweldor]

Unfortunately MY motorcycle days are over. I don't have my balance anymore and don't trust myself on the one I like to ride. (BMW K1200Lt) that's an eleven pound pig but smooth as silk. I still have my old Mile bike and a couple others that were my favorites for cow trailing but no more riding for me. Some times it is hard on me to look a these things just sitting. Like my mile flat tracker, I have a lot of miles racing and not to mention wheelies on that thing, but anymore they are just memories.

 

[Nick Hulme]

I don't have my balance anymore and don't trust myself on the one I like to ride. (BMW K1200Lt).

Have you considered a bolt-on (thus fully reversible) trike conversion for it?
I know three wheels aren't two but you still get a very similar feel on the road and any trike is better than any cage (a cage is a car or truck if you're not a bike rider)
ATB,
Nick

 

[1dbweldor]

Personally I don't see a trike as an option. However I did buy my wife a sporty two seater a few years ago. That's about the only way I can get my speed thrills anymore.
As a side note, I did consider building a side car for the Beemer a few years ago. Then looking back at my youth I decided to abort this idea.

 

[rsuarez]

Well, I agree. I would not go for a trike myself. I guess that when the time comes I will just hang the helmet and focus on something else. Hopefully by that time my memories are good enough to bring me joy and hopefully I reach 86... 86 still working on my shop would be a dream to me.

So, As I am concerned about space I did these two renders. Seems that it will be tight but will fit. I am still not sure if I will move the sand blasting cabinet out of the shop. What do you think?

 

[Blogwitch]

Where you have placed your sink is forcing you to lose space, that gap between the machine bench and the wash up/work bench.

By the looks of it, the sink should be at the other end of the bench it is sitting in, once moved, that corner can be reclaimed for benchtop space, giving a good clear run of an L shaped top.

Where the blast cabinet is could be a bit of a compromise. If it is anything like mine, some dust does come out of it, and those machines nearby could do without that highly abrasive material near them. I moved mine into a 'dirty' area to keep my machines safe. You could maybe, if you have nowhere else to put it, fit a cheap roller blind to the ceiling, and pull it down to the floor between the blaster and machines when the blaster is in use. I have done that between my surface grinder and polishing area and between my mill and tooling shelves, they really do stop dirt and swarf from hitting places you don't want it to be.

This is the drop down one for my surface grinder, the black thing hanging from the ceiling.

And the same for my mill.

I would also make up a couple of covers from poly sheet and gaffer tape to cover your machines when not in use.
Things like that don't make your shop look pretty, but they do make your machines last a lot longer.
Unless you have loads of space to work with, which you don't, then everything is a bit of a struggle, and you really do have to use your experience and brain power to overcome problems like these. Just look at things logically and try to forsee the problems before they happen, and have your 'fixes' in place before you start your machines up in anger.

Hope this helps

John

BTW, this is my bike I used to ride until my body told me I couldn't do it any more. It even had a custom trailer that it dragged around. It broke my heart to see it go not many yeags ago.

 

[bazmak]

The grinder does not need to be mounted permanently it takes up space
I store mine under bench and bring out and clamp in available space as needed

 

[ShopShoe]

I agree with everything Blogwitch said. If you could move the blast cabinet out of the shop you will have more room and less concern about grit ruining your machines.

I agree with bazmak too. You might get by storing the grinder somewhere when not in use. I personally don't like a grinder too near metalworking machines or "clean" work areas. If you got the blast cabinet out, you might be able to locate the grinder farther away from your machines as well.

If you keep the layout as-is, covers and roller-blinds are probably your best approach, along with a good shop vacuum.

--ShopShoe

 

[1dbweldor]

You might want to consider building a small shed outside to put the bead blaster in. Myself I put mine outside as well as the cyclone and baghouse. This made a world of difference. No more glass on the floor or surrounding metal.
That's a nice looking Aspencade. I've had a couple through the years and loved each and everyone. Many many miles on them through the years, never any problems.

 

[rsuarez]

Good advice on the blasting cabinet. I did not think of the powder flying around and reaching the machines. One of the mods I had planed is to install rollers in the cabinet. Given that the access door is on its right, it would be imposible to open because the garage door is right there. With rollers I will be able to move it forward to access it. i could well also roll it outside for use and avoid the dust inside shop.

As for the grinder, good advice also. I would not put it away completely but maybe keep it to the extreme left for fast jobs. One thing important to me is the readiness of the tools. I don't have much time free and setup time in my shop is very important to me. The grinder is one of those things we use for fast simple tasks.

The sink is fixed now and the pipe is on that side. On the other side, as you can see, there is a locker for the bike gear.



I guess the central question is the blasting cabinet. There is a place in the house where I could maybe hang it from the ceiling and out of the way. i will have a look today to see how feasible it is and how fast I could take it out.

thanks to all for the great advice.

Ramon