Sieg X2/X3 mill recommendations

[lazylathe]

Hi All,

Well it looks like the guy i was supposed to buy my mill from has disappeared...
3 weeks of no communication or response to e mails, that must be a sign!

Anyway i contacted Sieg to find out who in Canada sell their mills and they were extremely helpful and responded in less than an hour! Very impressed by that!

On the weekend i stopped off at Princess Auto to have a look at the X2 they sell.
I was very disappointed, but there is a reason.
They are not known for looking after display models.
The mill had been pretty well stripped of all it's hand wheels, bolts and anything that could be removed.
It was filthy and generally put me off buying one from them.
The same is for their mini lathe. The chuck had one jaw left, no hand wheels or tailstock...

This is the place that Sieg sent me to:
https://www.machinetoolswarehouse.com/xcart/catalog/Sieg-orderby_0-p-1-c-308.html
As it happens they are a short drive away from me!! So no shipping fees, finally!!! :big:

Now comes the big question!!!
I know everyone always tells you bigger is better and for the most part that is true.
But when you have a budget that the X2 falls quite nicely into and you start looking at the X3 for $500 more, i stop to wonder if i should wait a few more months. ???

The X2 i can buy and still tool for a reasonable cost and come out with a total of a bit more than the X3.
If i get the X3 then it will sit and wait a few months before i can get it any tooling...

I know there are a lot of X2 users out there and would love to hear your likes and dislikes of your machine!
Anyone can chime in and give their 2 cents!
It all will help me a lot!

Andrew

 

[imagineering]

IMHO, wait another couple of months and buy the SX3. Larger Table, Variable Speed Spindle, and easier to convert to CNC alter on.

Murray.

 

[Philjoe5]

Having owned both I would wait for the X3, especially if the wait is only a few months. You'll probably own the machine you choose for many years. That said, however, if you're reasonably sure that your working scale will not exceed the size limitations of the X2, then go for it.

Phil

 

[kjk]

I got my sx3 from them and they were great to deal with. The mill is worth the extra cash in my opinion.

 

[S3MIH3MI]

I just committed to selling my X2 (The one from Princess Auto. He is picking it up Thursday or Friday.

I'm in Windsor. If you wanted to try it before it goes, let me know.

 

[lazylathe]

What was the reason for selling if you do not mind me asking?
I know you just bought a fancy CNC mill!! ;D

How did the X2 serve you?

Thanks for the offer but the drive is too long to make during the week when i work 6 to 6...

Andrew

I just committed to selling my X2 (The one from Princess Auto. He is picking it up Thursday or Friday.

I'm in Windsor. If you wanted to try it before it goes, let me know.

 

[S3MIH3MI]

I'm not a machinist and wanted something easier to use. I'm good on a computer so I went to CNC.

The little mill did me no wrong. I made a few things for my bike as well as others. But it did take a long time and if someone wanted the same piece, it would be too much time involved.

 

[Troutsqueezer]

You do realize that anyone with an X3 is going to recommend an X3, right? Anyone with a Bridgeport is also going to recommend a Bridgeport. No surprise there.

I have an X2. I've never found myself wishing for an X3, nor a Bridgeport. Small milling machines are not hard to sell if you decide later on to upgrade. And you can keep your tooling if your X2 is R8.

It's an individual's choice. Both machines have good reputations.

 

[tel]

Personally, I would hang off for the X3 - the increased caspacity will weigh outstrip the price difference. I started with an X2 (well, after years of milling in the lathe, and then a crude home built one) and I was very, very pleased to step up to the RF30.

Having said that, I decided not to sell off the little one - it's very handy as a second operation machine and still gets regular use.

 

[milotrain]

Travel size has become an interesting topic for me.

On headstock travel:
The x3 actually has a workable headstock Z, you have a wheel right up front so you can run the Z without reaching over the machine. Difference here is about 9" for the x2 and 14" for the x3. HUGE difference, especially if you are using long tooling like a drill chuck with a hole saw in it or something like that. I find that I need almost all of my x3's Z for drilling bolt patterns. I don't like to move the X or Y while switching drill bits so I use the Z and I need all of it to get the bigger drills in there.

On X travel:
Honestly I don't know how much of a difference the x2 and x3 have in X travel. I mean it's 9" for the x2 and 15" for the x3 but if I'm drilling bolts along a rail I run out of X travel in the x3 and if I'm not then I never use the whole X. 15" is just too small to mount say a vice on one end and a second part on the other end (unless they are really small parts) so I don't think having an X of 9" is really that much of a difference, you are really in single small part land either way.

On Y travel:
I WANT MORE Y!!!!! The difference between the x2 and x3 is like 2" at most. I couldn't spare those 2", and really I can barely deal with my present travel.

On availability:
Get an SX3 if you can buy directly from machinetoolswarehouse. No question at all in my mind even a little on this. Get the S. I just blew three fuses on Saturday on my X3 (my fault obviously). It's not that the regular one is underpowered, just that it want's so much to have more torque. Also brushless DC motors are sexy. I would also strongly strongly consider the long bed version. An extra 5" here is everything, that moves you into two small parts setups at a time, which means you can quickly bang out something you need to do without moving the larger three day long project from the bed.

Yes I know you asked if you should save up the extra $500 when it's not in your budget and I just told you to save up an extra $800, but for the amount of usefulness that the SX3L has over the X2 it's at least twice the machine.

 

[Troutsqueezer]

Twice the machine for twice the price. Makes sense to me. I guess the question is, do you need twice the machine? I didn't. Do you need the extra money the X3 costs? I did. I bought an RT, parallels, vise, flycutters, end mills, boring head, clamping set, drill set, dies and taps, slitting saws, calipers, dial gauges and still didn't spend twice as much. Made a few engines though. ;D

 

[kf2qd]

I have an X2 at home and an X3 CNC at the school where I work. The X3 is about 4X the machine. The column on the X2 isn't as solid as I would like and is hard to keep squared up. If you are going to be able to have the money I would say go for the X3. A machine that "might" be a little bigger than you think you need is better than a machine that is a bit small.

Yes - if you had the money and space for a Bridgeport type machine I would recommend that as being the machine you would want... Go for the X3 if you can afford it.

 

[Cedge]

Andrew...
Only you know your particular budget and requirements, so asking others to help pick your machine will probably only muddy the waters and add to your confusion. I'm not going to choose your machine. I will tell you, having operated both and made engines on both, that there is a quantum leap between the two milling machines.

The SX2 was always needing to be trammed due to the flex in the column pivot design.
I was constantly wishing for just a little more travel and work space.
Until I converted it to belt drive, I broke a number of drive gears.
The 3MT setup was a much bigger pain to use than I ever suspected
Accuracy was decent, but required pretty light cuts to get usable results.
It required a number of upgrades and tweaks to get it to where it was "trustworthy".

SX3 was considerably heavier, accurate and rigid, right off the pallet, with no column flex.
Greater torque for things like boring bars, fly cutters and large face mills.
The 1000 watt DC motor has torque to spare, even at low speeds
The additional work envelope was a real blessing, in all 3 axis
Being able to use a larger sturdier vise was a huge improvement
R8 tooling!!!.... nuff said....LOL

The SX3 was not an available option when I bought my first mill, but I've never regretted buying it. I don't miss the added attention the X2 required to manage what the X3 does effortlessly. I still own both machines, but the X2 is now only used for small secondary operations, where I can't break down a setup. You can build engines on either machine, so it all pretty much boils down to your budget, available space, and patience levels.

Steve

 

[lazylathe]

Muddy waters are an understatement...

I know for sure that i want to build small scale engines.
Nothing bigger than one of Elmers beam engines.

My dad has always said buy the best you can afford while staying within budget.
And so far with my tools i have been able to achieve this.
I might have spent a bit too much on the Myford but i love it and will never part with it.

For now i have a contact that i can go and see his X2 in action and give it a test drive.
I somehow think that will be the deciding factor.
Seeing a tool in action is always a great gauge to see if you are really going to be able to use it for what you want.

Of course through all of this the X3 in it's various guises is always going to be the winner!
If it does happen to be the X3 it will be the basic version, unless i win some money!! :big:
Donations would also be gratefully accepted!!! ;D
But then the wife can have quite a grip on the purse strings! ;D

Thank you for all the replies and help and guidance!
The more the merrier!

Andrew

 

[Troutsqueezer]

Notice that a few of the posters started with the X2. That is because it is a good place to start. As their skills developed and their budgets grew and they knew they were in the hobby to stay, the X3 was a good machine to step up into.

If you bypass the X2, and who can blame you for wanting to, get some friends over to heft that 600 lbs up onto your heavy duty re-enforced bench. ;D

 

[Tin Falcon]

general rule of thumb get the biggest best mill
1) you can afford
2) have room for
3) big enough to meet your needs
I started with an x-2 and it is still my only mill
I have had mine for 10 years with little breakdowns never trashed a gear.
did upgrade to pulley drive much quieter.
have converted to cnc.
during that time a cooling fan went belly up and the way protectors deteriorated and were replace.Had to replace the fuse holder .
I also had to repair the motor control but that was a nearby lightning induced power surge. no fault of the mill.
The main design flaw I see in the x-2 is lack of control on the z axis . this is remedied with a dial indicator. Or in my case a cnc conversion . The other design flaw was the y axis gib caused the inability to adjust said gib for smooth consistent movement though the range of the axis. I made a new gib.
Compared to a x-1, a taig or a sherline a solid mill. compared an x-3 not as much. ( I have not owned a x1, sherline taig or x-3)
I have heard of many going to an x-3 after buying an x-2 but not heard the other way.

Your dime your shop your decision. Building shop is a major investment for most of us, even at the seig mini level.
Tin

 

[narrowgauger]

Interesting debate, but rather like asking the team what type of pizza topping they prefer, 10 responses with 50 options.

perhaps this will help:

- we have just added a SX2 to our professional model building shop, which includes 3 other German small mills.
- choice was made on size & price, with the SX2 winning by a mile;
- SX2 was delivered direct from Sieg and received in excellent state of manufacture and better than expected factory settings;
- tramming is NOT a problem at all, nor is column rigidity PROVIDED THAT THE MACHINE IS USED WITHIN ITS DESIGNED CAPACITY. We suspect that many users are endeavouring to take cuts that even major machines would have problems with.
- the brushless servo motor installed by Sieg has superb torque allowing low cutter speeds with subsequent eliminiation of vibration etc.
- yes, no matter what machine you buy there will always be a wish for slightly more table space or clearance on the Z column. However the small machine will make you a more inventive machinist who looks for other ways to skin the cat.

Instead of buying the biggest machine we suggest that the extra cash be used to buy better tooling and work the machine within its design capacity.


we certainly will now continue to buy Chinesse machines.

have fun
Bernard

 

[milotrain]

I'm also impatient. That's something I need to work on, but I can take 1/4" deep cuts in aluminum with a 3/4" 4 flute carbide endmill and get very little chatter. I don't know if you can do that on the X2 (you may be able to, that wasn't a challenge statement). The thing for me is that I make a small number of parts that I sell to try and keep the "hobby" less in the red than it would be, and the parts I make happen to be around 4"x9" which is the absolute limit of the X3 with tool clearance and clamps. I didn't know I would be doing this when I bought the mill, and if I had an X2 I would likely have designed the parts differently to fit, but as is I make things that pay for the hobby and I couldn't get by with an X2 (I think).

That's not to say the X2 isn't a fantastic machine. The LMS high torque version of the X2 looks very attractive at a fantastic price, and I'd recommend that to anyone in that budget category. But you didn't ask for a recommendation in a budget, you asked for a X2 vs X3 recommendation, so that's mine

With the proper time and modifications an X2 will do anything you will ever need it to do. So will a set of hand files and a hacksaw.

 

[steamboatmodel]

Princess Auto has the X2 on sale right now at $420.00
I would have liked an X3 but at the price diference I picked up an X2.
Regards,
Gerald.