project of the month question

[johnthomp]

i have been pondering for a while about the project of the month wich seems to be projects built to an amazing standard by mainly people who have extensive workshops skills and above all experience
as i am fairly new to this game i still dont have a milling machine and have to use other methods of makeing parts by use of methods from the dark ages such as filing sawing drilling etc and i have no chance for the forseeable future years being able to get me hands on such machines or skills
why doesent this forum run a project of the month specified for the newcomers and those of a lesser skill than the professionals running in tandem with the main project of the month why not newbie project of the month
id love to hear other peoples thoughts on this idea / prospect
regards john

 

[robwilk]

John I think that is a fantastic idea.
I like you are new to the game, have no training in machining and am learning as i go on mainly by making mistakes.
I have no mill either just a small Chester conquest lathe and a small pillar drill and some files.
But some times things go wrong more than they go right and a chance to be a project of the month nominee would give me and probably many others something to work for.

Rob

 

[johnthomp]

my thoughts exactly it would also give us a chance to see physicaly how we progress over time with new skills needed to create projects but not in a competitive way
regards john

 

[IronHorse]

A lot of guys on this board have many years of experience machining, but I bet there are more members that are just starting out. It is amazing the quality of work that can be done with a minimal amount of machinery. I won Project of the Month with my Caloric engine a year and a half ago. I had only a lathe and a drill press at the time. Stick with it and do a lot of reading and I am sure one day we will be voting for your engine.

IronHorse

 

[SAM in LA]

Not to toot my own whistle, I am an amateur and was nominated this month for my wood beam engine. I do not expect to win and if you look at the other two nominee's you will understand why I feel this way. This is absolutely an honor to be recognized by the membership of this forum. I started out last fall with a 1994 Shoptask which had been used and abused by previous owners. I started out by fixing what was broken or worn and learning how to operate it. With the help of this forum, I have learned how to set up the machine, how to perform various machining tasks, how to measure accurately, how to sharpen tools...... Be patient, you will acquire the skills and knowledge from the members of this forum.

SAM

 

[robwilk]

Well done Sam that is a very impressive bit of work :bow:
But i am well below that standard I suppose that when people nominate somebody's work if they felt a newbie project was good enough to be nominated for the experienced project of the month then they could .

 

[johnthomp]

and ill second that emotion and do hope that project wins but ill admit im green with envy on the grounds that i am a joiner of 13 years by trade and never heared of a wooden beam engine exept for the old cornish tin miners pumping engines wich i havent seen in real life so have no clue where to start
an exelent example of what can be achieved :bow: th_wav :bow:
regards john

 

[johnthomp]

its now become aparrent that the project of the month is not just for the experienced guru but for all of us
us newbies and novices just have to work our bo****ks off to get there but wouldnt it be grand if we had a lesser target to get us up through the ranks

 

[mklotz]

Personally, i.e. this isn't a moderator opinion, I think it's a bad idea.

As soon as you institute a mechanism for grading projects, no matter who has the responsibility for doing so, you create an opportunity for generating ill will at a furious pace. We most assuredly don't need that. If we open the door to a newbie POM, soon someone will want an intermediate class, a sub-expert class, a postgraduate class, etcan. The whole idea of recognizing good work would be lost in a miasma of classification and bickering. I'd rather see POM dropped completely than have to endure that.

The current system works just fine. Projects are nominated by the membership and those selections are made based on far more than the perfection of the finished project. Effort, attention to detail, ingenuity, creativity and the skill development of the maker are considered as well as the maker's presentation and narrative of the build. POM honors the process, not just the product.

I would encourage our newer members to work on your skills while you view the POM as an inspiration. The real satisfaction of this hobby, like most hobbies, comes from within, not from some exterior recognition.

 

[tel]

Projects are nominated by the membership and those selections are made based on far more than the perfection of the finished project. Effort, attention to detail, ingenuity, creativity and the skill development of the maker are considered as well as the maker's presentation and narrative of the build. POM honors the process, not just the product.

Well said Marv, captured the spirit of the thing nicely.

BTW Sam, my vote went to your engine this time - good luck!

 

[Deanofid]

Hi John;
I understand your point of view, and I kind of wondered how a newer fellow would have a chance
when I first started reading this forum. I wasn't new at this when I joined, but I remember the time
when I was!

After looking back, that is, way back, into the POM histories, it's pretty evident that nominations
are sometimes made because of someones skill and ability, and some of those people do have a
well equipped shop. It's also evident that many are nominated for their perseverance, willingness
to learn, and commitment to making something good in spite of the fact that they have little in the
way of machinery, and even less in the way of honed skills. Our personal skill is the only thing we
can truly improve upon. Having a shop full of tools does not a machinist make.

Some people do just nominate or vote for the flash factor, but I believe (and hope) they are in the
minority.
Most see and appreciate the struggles of the newer machinist and his/her determination and take
that into account when nomination time comes 'round. Effort counts around here, for most of us.
Someone who starts out as a hack and stays that way will soon loose fans. One who starts out
bodging every step, and pressing on to make good on mistakes and missteps is appreciated.

You know the saying; "It's the man, not the machine". Or, "A poor workman blames his tools".
We all have a chance! Keep at it!

Dean

 

[woodchip85]

IMHO another part to the project of the is not only the finished article but the amount of time and effort that the nominees have spent updating us all on there progress, when you spend the time going back through all the posts you ll be amazed what can be learnt as well.

 

[Jeff02]

I think it should left as is, and I'm one of the new guys.

If memory serves did Zee not get nominated for his efforts and rightfully so. Not only did his engine get him the nominated but his hard work and willingness to learn.

I say let the body make the decision.

Zee hope you don’t think I’m picking on you.

 

[GailInNM]

I think HMEM has a fairly good record as far as simple projects for POM winners. I think the system is working fairly well. POM is not a contest. It's a way to to recognize an overall project, not just the finished product.

Since Jeff02 mentioned Zee's engine, here it is. This was his second engine after someone told him how to turn his lathe on. And it was a POM winner. I don't think he showed us a photo of his first engine. (Yes, we all pick on Carl)

The next three photos are also POM winners.

And two more photos of POM Nominations that while not POM winners were winners in thier own right.

 

[shred]

My votes are based for the best overall contribution to HMEM.

In my book a beautiful engine with little writeup will get outvoted by a plainer one with more contributed to and from the forum.

These days it's usually a nice engine with a long build thread that wins and I can see how it could discourage some new builders. All I can answer with is to say to build your own engines for you and let the rest be what it is.

FWIW, the little loco in my avatar got POM one month and was the 5th I'd ever made, but my enjoyment of it would be the same, POM or no.

We should use the gallery more. That could be a cool source of inspiration for all levels of builders.

 

[1Kenny]

Picking a POM is a hard thing to do. When it started it was decided to let every member decide rather than a small group. That way keeps things unbiased. I am so glad it is that way. We have a lot of the best model builders in the world on this forum. There is no doubt in my mind that I have to take the time to learn, watch and practice to have the result to match their workmanship. I fail in some areas due to ether my skills or the lack of some tooling. That said, they show me the way they did something and I learn from it. A large factor in getting me to vote for a project is the person took the time to explain and show how they did their model so other people can learn from it. What is a small thing to some person is a big stumbling block for another. An example for me is a very small cotter pin. I can't remember who it was, but a gentleman here posted how to make them. I was flabbergasted, they looked so real with the flat on the inside, the top curve and the tips you bend, I am still in awe how easy it is to do. Another fun thing I did was make a wobbler with a lathe, hand drill, hand saw and file. Keeping the standards high is what helps make us all better.

Kenny

 

[Troutsqueezer]

The real satisfaction of this hobby, like most hobbies, comes from within, not from some exterior recognition.

Right on.

If memory serves did Zee not get nominated for his efforts and rightfully so. Not only did his engine get him the nominated but his hard work and willingness to learn.

I'm not sure I agree with this. I'm thinking maybe you didn't quite mean to write it as it came across or I'm misinterpreting. Like so many others, when I vote, I take into account what contributions were made to the forum with respect to the nominated engine and Zee's projects excel in that regard. That is his driving force in starting his build threads as he has stated so many times.

-Trout

 

[stevehuckss396]

why doesent this forum run a project of the month specified for the newcomers and those of a lesser skill than the professionals running in tandem with the main project of the month why not newbie project of the month

This could open a can of worms as far as "what is a newbie". Not sure it would be a good thing to go there.

Also John, me personally when I vote, I don't look close as to who has the best finish on there flywheel. My vote goes to the project I would like to have the most. That being said, you have the same chance of winning as a 40 year vet.

Cheers!

Steve

 

[HS93]

My Vies as someone new is defiantly leave it as it is, who is to say how new some one is to model angering anyway, so the way it is now I have something to aim for. on a level playing field. best wins.

peter

 

[Jeff02]

I'm not sure I agree with this. I'm thinking maybe you didn't quite mean to write it as it came across or I'm misinterpreting.
-Trout
[/quote]

Trout, I think you may be misinterpreting and I am not the best communicator.
Zee did a great job on his 2nd engine and I Think he won because of the Fit and Finnish and also what he contributed to the forum while building it. I think you and I are on the same page I just have a hard time putting it in words.
No offence was meant to Zee just great admiration for a job well done.

This is why its best for me to stay quite.