Plan to build....steam!!

[Jasonb]

You missed out If it is properly tested before use. Preferably by someone else who is competent to do so.

 

[trlvn]

I think she botched the boiler in this video.

Not sure why you think that. You do know that she pressure-tested the boiler at least a couple of times in the video series to 1.5 times the working pressure. Eg see around the 21:00 minute mark in:



The whole build playlist is at:



Craig

 

[GreenTwin]

Not sure why you think that. You do know that she pressure-tested the boiler at least a couple of times in the video series to 1.5 times the working pressure. Eg see around the 21:00 minute mark in:



The whole build playlist is at:



Craig

On one of her boiler builds, she had some sort of failure.
It could have been another video; I will check.

Maybe this one:



I fully understand how difficult such a task could/can be, which is why I have not attempted to silver solder a copper boiler.
The boiler I built years ago was welded steel, and so no problem overheating a nearby tube joint.

I admire her fortitude with her boiler builds.
She kept at it, and apparently has gotten quite good at it.

I am not sure I would have tried again after a failure like that.

Edit:
Some folks silver solder the ends to the shell (not sure of my terminology), and then roll in the tubes, and that prevents a lot of silver soldering problems.
It is typical for boiler tubes to be rolled in (expanded), and not welded or silver soldered.
I have seen one boiler where the steel tubes were rolled, and then a final weld for an improved seal.

.

 

[Jasonb]

Plenty a copper boiler with tig welded tubes and many many more with the tubes silver soldered in. Where are you getting the information that they are "typically not welded or silver soldered?

Expanded steel or copper tubes tend to be used on welded steel boilers but not very often on silver soldered copper ones.

 

[GreenTwin]

ie: not welded in on full sized commercial boilers.

 

[Craig Spicer]

PM Research makes a nice little beginner kit for 70 bucks, with engines #4 & #5 also available if you want a larger size as you mentioned. I enjoyed the build. You can buy a machined version of each if you wanted reference, the drawings are clear, and there are several youtube videos showing setups.

I've thought about powering an RC steam boat with it. Would make a fun project.

Great work and very interesting.

 

[Maxjon]

There are a number of different sites that offer free or low cost plans for steam engines. I know you mentioned vertical but the link below is a relatively simple horizontal that would be a good starter, no castings required, or you could build a wobbler if you wanted something even less complicated. Good luck and I hope you enjoy the experience.
https://www.modelengineeringwebsite.com/simple_steam_engine.html

I have looked at that one too! There's too many to choose from!
I'd prefer an eccentric driven model, as opposed to a wobbler.
Thanks!

 

[trlvn]

I am not sure I would have tried again after a failure like that.

Sorry...what?

It seems that quite a lot of people like her channel because she shows her mistakes and how she recovers from them and works past them. With video editing, she didn't have to show any such problems. But she does and I, for one, appreciate it. When I remake a part for the third time, it helps me remember that I'm not the only one to ever screw up.

The thing with Youtube is that there are lots of channels. If you only want to see demonstrations of how to perfectly complete some operation, there are certainly channels to fit that bill. And channels where...they...talk...really...slow. And channels with no audio at all. Really short videos. Really long videos. Etc, etc. If you don't get what you want out of one video, you can almost certainly find lots more to look at. Or go make your own mistakes in the shop!

Craig

 

[Maxjon]

Sorry...what?

It seems that quite a lot of people like her channel because she shows her mistakes and how she recovers from them and works past them. With video editing, she didn't have to show any such problems. But she does and I, for one, appreciate it. When I remake a part for the third time, it helps me remember that I'm not the only one to ever screw up.

The thing with Youtube is that there are lots of channels. If you only want to see demonstrations of how to perfectly complete some operation, there are certainly channels to fit that bill. And channels where...they...talk...really...slow. And channels with no audio at all. Really short videos. Really long videos. Etc, etc. If you don't get what you want out of one video, you can almost certainly find lots more to look at. Or go make your own mistakes in the shop!

Craig

Think she is great!

 

[GreenTwin]

Sorry...what?

It seems that quite a lot of people like her channel because she shows her mistakes and how she recovers from them and works past them. With video editing, she didn't have to show any such problems. But she does and I, for one, appreciate it. When I remake a part for the third time, it helps me remember that I'm not the only one to ever screw up.

The thing with Youtube is that there are lots of channels. If you only want to see demonstrations of how to perfectly complete some operation, there are certainly channels to fit that bill. And channels where...they...talk...really...slow. And channels with no audio at all. Really short videos. Really long videos. Etc, etc. If you don't get what you want out of one video, you can almost certainly find lots more to look at. Or go make your own mistakes in the shop!

Craig

trlvn-

You are totally not getting the point I was trying to make.

I was referring to how a silver solder failure like that would affect me, and you are taking some sort of weird defensive posture about protecting a youtuber. I am not talking about blondihacks at all; I am talking about me and how that would affect me.

Lighten up man.

Edit:
I would like to clarify publicly (for all to see, because it is important for the good of this forum/hobby that folks understand what is going on here) that the intent of me being on this forum is to help moderate, and to offer any information I have about the hobby, with the intent of helping others (for free).
The topic here was "Building Steam", and the intent of my posting the link to blondihack's boiler failure video was to illustrate that building a silver-soldered boiler would not necessarily be a casual 1 afternoon (walk-in-the-park) shop affair for many.
There are safety aspects also involved in a boiler that is not built correctly, so this is a rather important topic.

To spin my statement I made "I am not sure I would have tried again after a failure like that" which was a statement about my feelings, into an accusation that I am personally attacking blondihacks is astonishingly off base, and just way out in left field.

And in the process, you have totally changed the subject matter from learning about steam engines, to defending some random youtuber from an imaginary attack, while offering nothing helpful about the original topic.

My entire focus here is to help others with the hobby, and do what we all can do to bring this community together.
I would ask that others pay attention to the topic, think about what the real point of the statements being made are, and do what you can to bring us members together. Those who are reading their own misguided meaning into other's statements are actually driving us apart, and we need to avoid that.

Thanks much
Pat J
.

 

[Richard Hed]

Sorry...what?

It seems that quite a lot of people like her channel because she shows her mistakes and how she recovers from them and works past them. With video editing, she didn't have to show any such problems. But she does and I, for one, appreciate it. When I remake a part for the third time, it helps me remember that I'm not the only one to ever screw up.

The thing with Youtube is that there are lots of channels. If you only want to see demonstrations of how to perfectly complete some operation, there are certainly channels to fit that bill. And channels where...they...talk...really...slow. And channels with no audio at all. Really short videos. Really long videos. Etc, etc. If you don't get what you want out of one video, you can almost certainly find lots more to look at. Or go make your own mistakes in the shop!

Craig

I like her channel because she gets to the point without a bunch of "pre-explanation". I get sorely sick of pre-explainations. Also she dubs over what she has to say. I like her because she tells what you need not yak to hear herself yakking. She treats the viewer as if he/she is an adult not a child. There are MANY channels I would like to watch but they go on explaining for an hour. What takes too many peeps an hour or more, Blondi does in 20 minute. One of my favorites also is Joe Pie, he explains a lot, but it is with a diagram. Some times he is aweful wordy but not like some others. So take this warning if yhou are makiong vids--do your explaining while the machine is running and use dub else the audience cannot hear over the machines.

 

[Maxjon]

Well I've made a start...although I do admit to cheating, as a work colleague machined this on his 5 axis...

 

[GreenTwin]

Nice !

I often find that the most difficult part for me building an engine is just getting off the design board and getting started cutting metal (printing 3D patterns actually).
.

 

[Jasonb]

So what design did you end up going for and what size?

Although I often fabricate my cylinders or manually cut from solid I have done one on the CNC which was straight sided like that. Could have taken advantage of the 5th axis and recessed around the cylinder for some lagging though if it's a small engine the advantage is debatable.

 

[Maxjon]

So what design did im going you end up going for and what size?

Although I often fabricate my cylinders or manually cut from solid I have done one on the CNC which was straight sided like that. Could have taken advantage of the 5th axis and recessed around the cylinder for some lagging though if it's a small engine the advantage is debatable.

I'm going with the small original Ramond Yates drawings, 5/8" piston. I can still recess around the cylinder, if that's an advantage? I'm a newbie...what's lagging?
Thanks!

 

[GreenTwin]

Lagging = copper or brass sheet metal that wraps around the cylinder, theoretically with insulation under it, though you don't need the insulation for a model engine.

For a model engine, the lagging is for a visual effect.

.

 

[Maxjon]

Lagging = copper or brass sheet metal that wraps around the cylinder, theoretically with insulation under it, though you don't need the insulation for a model engine.

For a model engine, the lagging is for a visual effect.

.

I was going to look at it in the 5 axis, but I'm not 100% of the depth/wall thickness of the cylinder wall. I think it maybe 3/32" ?

 

[Jasonb]

lagging is insulation material that goes into the void around the cylinder between the two end flanges. You then fit metal or wood cleading or cladding over that to keep it in place.

It would help a little with heat loss and reducing condensate but on a small 5/8 bore engien that is not really going to do work and even if it did efficiency is not really a consideration then it is just as easy to go with a solid cylinder.

Yes 3/32" wall would be fine, that Simplex engine I posted the two videos of has 2.5mm wall. Flanges at the ends are 3mm thick. The simple solution would be to make the OD the same as the width of the port face (13/16) then it would be quite simple to cut with say a 6mm cutter with 1mm corner radius which would leave an internal fillet to make it look more like a casting if you decided not to fit cleading.

The bed "casting" and the entablature/lower cylinder cover are good candidates for CNC as well.

 

[trlvn]

Craig-

You are totally not getting the point I was trying to make.

I was referring to how a silver solder failure like that would affect me, and you are taking some sort of weird defensive posture about protecting a youtuber. I am not talking about blondihacks at all; I am talking about me and how that would affect me.

Lighten up man.

Edit:
I would like to clarify publicly (for all to see, because it is important for the good of this forum/hobby that folks understand what is going on here) that the intent of me being on this forum is to help moderate, and to offer any information I have about the hobby, with the intent of helping others (for free).
The topic here was "Building Steam", and the intent of my posting the link to blondihack's boiler failure video was to illustrate that building a silver-soldered boiler would not necessarily be a casual 1 afternoon (walk-in-the-park) shop affair for many.
There are safety aspects also involved in a boiler that is not built correctly, so this is a rather important topic.

To spin my statement I made "I am not sure I would have tried again after a failure like that" which was a statement about my feelings, into an accusation that I am personally attacking blondihacks is astonishingly off base, and just way out in left field.

And in the process, you have totally changed the subject matter from learning about steam, to defending some random youtuber, while offering nothing helpful about the original topic.

My entire focus here is to help others with the hobby, and do what we all can do to bring this community together.
I would ask that others pay attention to the topic, think about what the real point of the statements being made are, and do what you can to bring us members together. Those who are reading their own misguided meaning into other's statements are actually driving us apart, and we need to avoid that.

Thanks much
Pat J
.

Pat:

Excuse me but I think that you may have failed to get across the point you were trying to make.

Reading between the lines, it appears you are trying to argue that welding is a better approach than silver soldering. Your statement, "I think she botched the boiler in this video." is true if what you meant is that silver soldering a complex assembly like that can be very tricky. But that is literally not what you wrote. And particularly, you ignored the next video in the series that did show how she successfully joined parts--and not with welding.

Your statement "I am not sure I would have tried again after a failure like that" literally sounds like you would have closed up your shop and taken up another hobby. (Hence, my "what?" response.) I think what you meant was that you wouldn't have tried silver soldering again. But that is not what you wrote.

The Blondihacks channel, Quinn Dunki, is not some "random youtuber". She provides a resource that helps more than a few of us with this hobby. Directly related to the subject of this thread. She didn't 'botch the boiler'; she showed an initial approach that didn't work.

Nobody is "driving us apart" just because they have a different point of view than yours. We can have a civil discussion with back and forth but phrases like "weird defensive posture", "astonishingly off base" and "way out in left field" can be construed as derogatory. Maybe you didn't mean that either.

Craig

 

[kf2qd]

I operate my steam engines on compressed air, for demonstration.

I have built and operated a boiler in the past, but that too was for demonstration, and it was not a certified boiler, and so not necessarily safe in the long run due to corrosion on the steel shell.

Building a boiler that produces a significant amount of power continuously is a rather complex affair if it is built with the required safety considerations.

There is not really a general agreement in the hobby community about what a "safe" boiler is, and that is a thorny topic to say the least.

I have photos of two certified fire-tube boilers, and in one case the individual purchased the raw finished metal parts from an online fab store and had a certified welder assemble it with a certification nameplate.

In another case, the individual purchased a complete certified boiler shell, and then added things like water level, gauges, etc.

.

I would not consider a steel boiler for model operation because of corrosion. Most of the model boiler designs I have seen are copper. Copper is much more corrosion resistant, and much easier to work with. Most places do not require a certified boiler for small hobby boilers.