Not an engine, but a project I expect some will appreciate

Home Model Engine Machinist Forum

Help Support Home Model Engine Machinist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
That's impressive sixtysix. Just wondering, is there a HMEM equivalent to the gun making/smithing world you hang out at or could recommend? I see so many youtube type vids where they are doing interesting machining & metalworking techniques... that all seem to be firearm projects of some ort (all aspects of machining, honing, grinding, heat treating, surface treatments, colorization...). There just has to be some useful resources there.
 
So basically you can use up to 10 parts to make a firearm if you didn't want to build the whole thing? Similar to the 51% rule in aviation?
You can use as many off-the-shelf parts as you want for any "sporting" firearm, and as may domestically produced parts as you like in any firearm. What that text refers to are provisions of section 922, which prohibit the importation of non-sporting firearms. That is why you see some goofy re-works of rifles like the thumbhole stock Norinco AKs and the HK SL8, which is the importable version of the G36. There are scores of folks who are in violation of 922(r), mostly because they didn't know about it, and started swapping out parts in their SKS or Romanian WASR AK. It is not something that is heavily prosecuted; ATF just doesn't seem to care about the 19 year old kit who covered his Yugo underfolder in Tapco parts, but still has an import parts count of 11.

Simply put, if you are building a "non-sporting" firearm, such as a conventional pistol grip AK, AR, G3, CETME, FAL, etc, on a receiver YOU manufactured (legally, the receiver is the gun), then you must have 10 or fewer imported parts (optics, lights, lasers, etc. are accessories, not considered gun parts). Same rules apply if it is an imported receiver. If it is a USA produced, finished & serialized commercial receiver, however, the import parts count is irrelevant, as it is declared a domestic firearm. That's the deal with the parts kits that are everything but the receiver; the receiver is non-importable (oftentimes because the receiver is a machine gun receiver, and even if you were to weld up the extra cuts & holes, ATF has the "once a machine gun, always a machine gun" policy)

If you are building a "sporting" firearm (basically an arbitrary, "lick your finger and check the wind" set of features ATF declared), then import parts count is irrelevant.

The tax thing and approval from ATF kinda sucks but those are for Title2 stuff right?
Yes, the $200 tax stamp applies only to title II NFA stuff (short rifles/shotguns, destructive devices, supressors, AOWs). To make a title II weapon, you complete a form 1, get your local CLEO (sheriff or chief of police) to sign off, mail the form and a $200 check to NFA branch, then wait for approval (has been quicker lately, but was taking over a year at times). The part about machine guns is due to the Hughs amendment to the 1986 Volker-McClure act, which prohibits the transfer of machine guns made after May 1, 1986 to private citizens. That's why machine guns are so expensive these days; fixed supply, increasing demand. There are somewhere around 174,000 transferable machine guns on the registry. The only work-around is to become an SOT manufacturer, who can build and possess "post samples". But being an SOT is not the same as being a "kitchen table FFL", and the machine guns must be transferred or destroyed if the license is not renewed or otherwise becomes invalid.

Title 1 can be 100% manufactured by anyone is isn't a felon and don't need to be checked or registered or anything. How awesome is that!?
It isn't just felonies; domestic violence conviction, misdemeanors that could have carried a sentence >12 months, being adjudicated a mental defect, having warrants or being a fugitive. All the same stuff that's listed on the form 4473 when you buy a gun from a dealer.

But yes, if you can lawfully possess a firearm, you can lawfully build one for yourself. You do not have to serialize it, and it is legal to sell home builds; you just can't build them with the intent to sell. Kind of a fuzzy line, but basically, the guy who sells a home build years after making it is in the clear, where the guy who bought and finished a 2 dozen 80% lower receivers, built them, and has been selling off complete rifles to generate an income is in violation of the law.

As for the 80%, again, ATF has kind of an arbitrary declaration of what constitutes 80%, but they are not legally a firearm until they are 81% or more complete. That is why you see AR-15 80% receivers sold with no FFL requirement; they're legally a paper weight until you start cutting on them.

Just wondering, is there a HMEM equivalent to the gun making/smithing world you hang out at or could recommend?
I think Practicalmachinist.com has a pretty busy firearms section, but otherwise I don't know of any boards.
 
That is an astounding amount of information, thank you! I see gun projects in my future! :D
 
Nice work Deuce,

Gets the blood warmed up and the desire going again.

We Canucks can't do much of that anymore up here. Our wise guys have made the working on our own weapons nearly impossible unless you are an approved gunsmith.
Even adding Tac stocks and such things are liable to get you no peace while out hunting or peppering the back 40.
We can have banana/AK mags but only if they're permanently plugged to allow for 5 rounds (except for the 22's), I guess 5 rounds won't kill anyone but a full mag will?:confused:

I gave up working on my own guns and ideas because anything you machine or alter is pretty much illegal.

I like the attention to detail and the long hours of work you're giving it, I will follow because of the quality I see going into it, and not least, I love the AR.

Very nice job! Regards, J.
 
You're doing great but work faster, I can't wait to see this finished! Any chance of a video of it in action when it's finished?

Don't feel bad JJ, as I'm sure you know we have it really bad here in the UK, they even stopped us buying Airsoft guns unless you belong to a club...
 
And here in Australia we can't own Airsoft guns at all. See, there's always someone worse off than you - normally it's me :p
 
Gosh that is bad Al. Airsoft guns used to be easy to buy over here but the change in the law put many companies out of business. You can still buy them without joining a club but the choice is very limited and they have to be in bright colours like pink or blue!
 
Yeah..........draconian gun laws are the primary reason I could never live in those nations where you drive on the wrong side of the road. :D

Back on topic, when I was cutting the hammer, I forgot to account for the 13/16" radius at the rear of the receivers, which puts the upper a little higher than the correct 1/2 scale 3/4" radius (impatience + damaged 3/4" collet), so the bolt carrier was not pushing the hammer down far enough to engage the sear or disconnector. In an attempt to avoid remaking the hammer, we tried to TIG some material to the face of it. Didn't pan out so good:
IMG_1232_zps82fa182b.jpg


(not to self: 35 amps too hot for tiny pieces)

So, I gotta do that bit again, and I had killed my last 1/8" carbide cutter just before I blew a capacitor in the phase converter. Lol. Phase converter is back up and running, but my 10 pack of 1/8 cutters isn't here yet. Plus some personal family issues have taxed my spare time and motivation lately. But I'll get back after it soon. Still got awhile before I hear back from ATF anyway, plenty of time to make everything besides the barrel.
 
Guess this thread is past due for an update!

Got a hand guard built a little while back. I made the mistake of halving the Midwest Industries one I had on hand with no consideration for centerline to top of rail on my miniature upper, so the rail heights are mismatched 0.036", but oh well.

Also got an extractor and firing pin sorted out, although I need to revisit the firing pin, as the surface area of this one is too large to get ignition with the power the hammer has.
IMG_1237_zps4f603b08.jpg


After round two of smoking the smaller 230V 130 MFD cap in my converter a couple weeks ago, I ordered a pair of 330V 145 MFD units, which came in on Saurday. I found a little time to tinker Sunday and yesterday, made the front sight and a faux barrel. Still waiting on my letter from ATF, but at least it looks the part now. I do have my .17 barrel, but still need to make or buy a chamber reamer before profiling it.

The sight still needs a little hand finishing, as well as pin holes, sling swivel and drilled/tapped for sight post, but is basically done. Turned out to be a 6 hour piece.

IMG_1241_zpsb4819b34.jpg


IMG_1244_zpsae88d540.jpg


IMG_1242_zpsa661183a.jpg


IMG_1243_zps837872de.jpg
 
Nice work! Neat project.

What was the ATF determination of what this classifies. Did it pass as a pistol, or did they make you do AoW/SBR?

Just wondering, is there a HMEM equivalent to the gun making/smithing world you hang out at or could recommend?
http://www.weaponeer.net/

A little slow on traffic, but there are plenty of friendly, skilled, and knowledgeable gunsmiths there.
 
What was the ATF determination of what this classifies. Did it pass as a pistol, or did they make you do AoW/SBR?

No answer yet. Gubbermint agency, so I wasn't anticipating expediency..............
 
Still no word from ATF, but we're getting pretty close on the project. All that really remains is the forward assist and the real barrel. Dust cover is done, milled from 4140, as I didn't feel like machining dies to form it from sheet metal. Also done are the flash hider, front hand guard retainer and one of the most tedious parts, the combination bolt catch and ejector.

6d2e9aff-4e98-4f72-8260-89899c8acde3_zps4b4596f5.jpg


IMG_1253_zps92420352.jpg


IMG_1254_zpse1eef1ad.jpg


2dcb4a41-8270-4197-9ab1-43656b6850a4_zpsb24d8fe3.jpg


And one for scale:

b4f8cc93-0b91-4128-ade0-e4588a9b9e96_zps737841d2.jpg
 

Latest posts

Back
Top