Ok, guys I'm hooked. The scale and model engines are just what I have been looking for to feed my mechanical fascination. Been doing the auto resto stuff and just tired of the busted knuckles, rust and all the other goodies. I need advice on lathe and mill purchase. I have some machining and precision experience. The space is a little tight in the shop,but, I think I still have room for two separate machines. At this time all I really plan on working on are the casting kits I have seen advertised. I really would like to buy good stuff and as much tooling as needed to avoid beginners frustration all at one time.
New tools
- Thread starter BBQHOG
- Start date
Help Support Home Model Engine Machinist Forum:
BBQHOG said:
Hi and welcome to the forum...
Good to hear you've been bitten by the bug to make stuff...
Of course, you want the best you can buy for your dollar or pound or euro ( depending on your location...)
It would help if you had a budget in mind...that way we could help in your choice of machines and tooling..
Bear in mind that it is easy to spend as much on tooling as it is on a machine.
Thanks, kinda new to this forum stuff. Been looking at Grizzly and Sherline, so, I am thinking in the $4-6k range. I have no CNC knowledge. I have been reading and studying all the web info I can and I just want to know if you would start with a table top mill and 7x or such mini lathe from the likes of Grizzly or start with something like the 6200 package from Sherline. I have purchased a 1960 SB 13 inch thats gonna need some cleaning and resto work. It was just too lonely sitting in that corner.s
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2008
- Messages
- 548
- Reaction score
- 4
Get the biggest and most rigid machines that you can afford and fit in the available space. It sucks working around small work envelopes and machines that are knocked out of tram etc if you breathe on them. Sometimes, I swear I spend more time figuring out how to make things in small work envelopes then machining parts.
Tooling adds up quickly and you can never have enough. Also, don't forget raw materials for making fixtures and other necessary tooling.
-Bob
Tooling adds up quickly and you can never have enough. Also, don't forget raw materials for making fixtures and other necessary tooling.
-Bob
Tin Falcon
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2007
- Messages
- 7,207
- Reaction score
- 789
welcome to the forum . I started with a x-2 mill and a 7 x 10 lathe later added a 9" long ed south bend lathe and a shaperr......
Sherlines are a nice machine have a good rep.
A lot depends on how big models you want to make . I have a friend with sherline tools that makes most of his models at half scale of published, fantastic work.
do not worry about jumping into cnc right away there is lots to learn about machining by hand.
you should be able to set up a nice shop in that budget range.
Tin
Sherlines are a nice machine have a good rep.
A lot depends on how big models you want to make . I have a friend with sherline tools that makes most of his models at half scale of published, fantastic work.
do not worry about jumping into cnc right away there is lots to learn about machining by hand.
you should be able to set up a nice shop in that budget range.
Tin
BBQHOG said:
Hi,
If you were just doing small precision stuff I would say that you go for either Sherline or Taig but you mention engines from castings which means larger sizes of stock , so unless you have a lot of money to buy either US or EU made stuff then you are faced with the Chinese ones.
Sieg have the better machines of the lot but they are by no means ready out of the box stuff and need work done on them to bring them up to scratch.
Sieg C3 super lathe and the X2s mill ( they are both the new high torque ones) seem to be popular with model makers here in the UK.
Regards,
A.G
I have a Sherline 4400 manual lathe and wanted a bit more working envelope than the stock Sherline mills offer. I didn't know about their extended axes at the time, and went with the A2Z CNC Monster Mill instead. It is compatible with all Sherline accessories and has worked out very well for me.
www.sherline.com
www.a2zcnc.com
The little wobbler in my avatar was my first machining project and was done on these machines. It is Elmer Verberg's #25 wobbler. Not sure if the plans are still available or not as his original book is about to be reissued.
http://www.john-tom.com/html/ElmersEngines.html
Thayer
www.sherline.com
www.a2zcnc.com
The little wobbler in my avatar was my first machining project and was done on these machines. It is Elmer Verberg's #25 wobbler. Not sure if the plans are still available or not as his original book is about to be reissued.
http://www.john-tom.com/html/ElmersEngines.html
Thayer
I think I'm kind of the exception around here - I've got some medium size machines such as a Lagun FT2 (10x50 table with 16"x33" travels) and a 10x20 lathe and 12x36 lathe as well as assorted machines such as a shaper, surface grinder, horizontal mill. You need these size to work on some of the bigger projects that you might take on.
You could get into that size of machinery with your budget. It might be a bit of a stretch for tooling - figure on about the cost of the machinery in tooling.
You could get into that size of machinery with your budget. It might be a bit of a stretch for tooling - figure on about the cost of the machinery in tooling.
'
Please tell us what you mean by this. "A little tight" for some guys is a 16' x 20' shop building. For me it is 70 sq ft spare bedroom. How much bench space do you actually have for a lathe and mill?
We don't know what size casting kits you are looking at, either. Some cast engines fit in the palm of your hand, some weigh 50 pounds.
To see a few things that can be made on smaller machines (Taig lathe and mill, in my case) have a look at my website. Some of those engines are not really small, but still done on small machines. Link in my sig line.
Dean
BBQHOG said:
Please tell us what you mean by this. "A little tight" for some guys is a 16' x 20' shop building. For me it is 70 sq ft spare bedroom. How much bench space do you actually have for a lathe and mill?
We don't know what size casting kits you are looking at, either. Some cast engines fit in the palm of your hand, some weigh 50 pounds.
To see a few things that can be made on smaller machines (Taig lathe and mill, in my case) have a look at my website. Some of those engines are not really small, but still done on small machines. Link in my sig line.
Dean
I wish I had a pound for every time I had seen the question 'what should I buy'. I would be a rich man by now.
Take your budget and halve it, that is how much you have to spend on your new machines. If you are not like the normal beginner and you can control your urge to get all your basic tooling at once, then you could use 2/3rds of your budget for machine purchase. The remainder will go on tooling to get you started. I have been doing it for years, and my tooling is at least double, or even maybe three times the cost of my machinery, a lot is home made because it just cannot be bought.
From your budget, buy the largest machines that will fit in the space you have available, what will do a lot will do a little, but NOT the other way around. Doing it that way, you won't be wanting to upgrade to larger machines in the very near future, when you find you are struggling to get the part on the smaller machines you have maybe purchased.
Everyone will tell you that their set up is perfect, but that is for them in their particular set up. Machining at home is a very personal thing, so do listen to what people have to say, but when it all boils down to the time to make decisions, the decision has to be yours, and yours alone. We can only give you guidance.
You will never be able to get the perfect set up straight away, purely because not every machine can do everything that you really require. You should aim for a happy balance, then gradually build from that.
After well over 40 years in this game, there are still some things in my shop that I am not truly happy with, caused mainly by space limitations, but I have learned to cope with what I do have.
John
Take your budget and halve it, that is how much you have to spend on your new machines. If you are not like the normal beginner and you can control your urge to get all your basic tooling at once, then you could use 2/3rds of your budget for machine purchase. The remainder will go on tooling to get you started. I have been doing it for years, and my tooling is at least double, or even maybe three times the cost of my machinery, a lot is home made because it just cannot be bought.
From your budget, buy the largest machines that will fit in the space you have available, what will do a lot will do a little, but NOT the other way around. Doing it that way, you won't be wanting to upgrade to larger machines in the very near future, when you find you are struggling to get the part on the smaller machines you have maybe purchased.
Everyone will tell you that their set up is perfect, but that is for them in their particular set up. Machining at home is a very personal thing, so do listen to what people have to say, but when it all boils down to the time to make decisions, the decision has to be yours, and yours alone. We can only give you guidance.
You will never be able to get the perfect set up straight away, purely because not every machine can do everything that you really require. You should aim for a happy balance, then gradually build from that.
After well over 40 years in this game, there are still some things in my shop that I am not truly happy with, caused mainly by space limitations, but I have learned to cope with what I do have.
John
Thanks for the warm welcome. Hope I'm posting this in the correct manner. The advice is very helpful. It has given me ideas and reinforced some of my own. To answer some of your questions: the shop is 24x20, but has an 8x8 closet and is being used as a welding/resto shop. So, there already is all the normal equipment for that type of work. While I mentioned casting kits, I may have mislead. Everything from the Stirlings to the hit and miss, to the scale steam, even the micro tools have caught my eye. I know this is an art of progression and am willing to happily work my way up the skill levels. I think that something like the Red Wing would be my upper limit, but, maybe someday a v- something or other is in the dreams. My first teacher told me that 90 percent of every job was set-up and the other 10 I could blame on the machine. So, I think I'm gonna get the SB lathe I bought up to it's former best, be looking for a mill, and enjoy the "set-up". Now, any suggestions on the perfect starter project?
Thanks
Hog
Thanks
Hog
BBQHOG said:
Just starting out I think I'd buy something like a PM Research steam engine casting kit. They come with all of the material you'll need so there's little to no scrounging for stuff. The only downside to that is having to replace castings if/when you mess up but PM is pretty good in that way. Big plus is that a lot of the smaller kits are fairly cheap. I started my son with the 2A wobbler, pretty cheap to start at $50 or so.
There are a lot of plans available if you already have metal stock or a good supply local to you.
If you'd like to make things to use while you're tooling up you might consider some of Metal Lathe Accessories castings. He's got a bunch of cast iron kits to make such things as faceplates, t-slot cross slides, milling adapters for the lathe, etc. I made a bunch-o-stuff for my Atlas from his castings.
One other thing I'd suggest is that you try and find someone in the area who can assist with advice, the occasional loan of a tool and help with setups. Sometimes just bouncing an idea across someone can be a big help. Guys here will always be glad to help but sometimes being there in person is a big plus.
(I don't have a financial relationship with either PM Research or MLA, just found them good suppliers in the past.)
Similar threads
