New to The Amateur Machinists World

[Courierdog]

Lets begin by saying I have exceeded the manufacturers warranty by a few years.
My interests have been Amateur Radio, Having worked in the Industry for the majority of my life the hobby got old.
I have always been interested in things mechanical, so in 2012 I took the leap and bought from the Little Machine Shop a 3536 Lathe and a 3960 Mill. complete with Chris's recommended starting Tool sets.
Finally after retiring for the third time this past July I am getting around to finishing the shop.
having the Lathe sitting on their original Pallets on the floor in the basement has been rather embarrassing to say the least.
I built two workbench one for the Lathe and one for the Mill, using the ShopFox Leg system from the local BusyBeeTool store.
I used qty 2 layers of 3/4 inch Plywood as the surface of the Workbench.
My plan is to use an epoxy based Varathane, to keep the initial setup simple.
I have a few first project plans lined up.
First a Test Bar for the Lathe
A Dual Dial Indicator Tramming device for the Mill
From there I also have seven projects Like the Eccentric Engineering Acute Tool Sharpening System Kit.
As Most of you have already been there done that, we have more on the Project Wish List than we have Life to live.
Thanks for Listening

 

[tornitore45]

Nice machines. Me too, spent life in electronic, had my fun there but at home I like mechanical projects like model engines.

From my experience I say the dual dial indicator is a gimmick a simple indicator sweeping the table once every 2 year is all I found useful. Unless you overtax the mill is not going out of tram too easily.
Building a sharpening tool-system, in my opinion, gives low return for investment. You have a small mill, if you buy Good carbide tool you can not drive them too hard and will last and last and last. Sharpening capability is not much of an advantage. On the other hand learn to grind HSS tools for the lathe, if you must buy the special carbide bit and holder for each tool shape you need it get expensive real fast. 10 minutes at the grinder an you have that special cutter you may use only once or twice.

Do not be in a hurry to acquire all the tools you think you need, I have made some expensive purchase that have not seen the light of day in a long time.
Enjoy making your own tools an fixtures. Tip. Stamp a number on a special fixture and store a record of the purpose for that fixture. You won't believe how many time I had to ask myself: Why on earth did I make this thing.

 

[Courierdog]

First off I for the most part do not use Carbide cutters, even though I own a few.
The Lathe for the most part I use the Diamond Tool Holder with either HSS or Crobalt tool bits
Most of my end mills are HSS and do require sharpening.
Similarly my drill bits are HSS and yes I resharpen my drill bits and for the most part I now grind them with 4 facet points which cut faster and more accurately.
I worked in Broadcasting for 15 years and a Large Telco for 22 years. Retired then worked as a courier contractor for 14.5 years I have now retired and will make for finishing the work shop and get serious making chips.
As to the dual dial indicator, it is an interesting project, which only requires two reasonable dial indicators and some lathe and mill work. As a bit of a joke I want to make it look like a piece of junk on the surface and have all the important parts machined to a high degree of accuracy. Why just had the idea as the one individual was build his he made the comment that the non working finish is only window dressing. This put a bug in my ear on the design side to craft the most horrible looking precision tramming tool that works well and will give non machinists a hissy fit thinking very ugly thoughts. Just for laughs. Create an optical illusion of totally lopsided looking bar.preferably a rusty and ugly looking piece. Just for Fun.
Thanks for Listening.

 

[goldstar31]

From there I also have seven projects Like the Eccentric Engineering Acute Tool Sharpening System Kit.
A

I have one running. Not as fancy as my Quorn but easier and quicker to set up. Actually, the plan book is very good and it should be possible to make it from the scrap box apart from the 4 Bristol Clamps.
Whatever your choice, make it now

Norman

 

[Courierdog]

I have the Eccentric Engineering Acute Tool Sharpening System Kit. Now I have to acquire all the metric tapping drills and the reamers.
And you are very correct it is a very nice unit.
I have the tormek Drill bit sharpening attachment, which enables me to sharpen my drill to a four facet point.
Until you have used a four facet drill bit you do not know what you have been missing.
It took me a couple of days to get used to how to hold my tongue to get it just right. so I see your location as between Tyne and Tees which puts you in the north east of England. we are in the frozen north west of Canada
My daughter lives in London her husband is working on the Oxford Vaccine

 

[Courierdog]

The advantage of the Acute Tool Sharpening system is it relative portability compared to the Quorn, which is a very dedicated unit.
With different Plates I could set it up on either my bench grinder or the Tormek.
Much more versatile and whith the Gary has the various angle plates set up it becomes very quick to set up.
I like it because of the simplicity of the setup.
That and the kit where I get to perform the fabrication and use it as a learning process for each machining process. I spent 37 years in the electronic engineering side of the house. so now I want to work with my hands more than my head. Well that is not quite true as there is a lot of prep work that is very intensive in the grey matter before ever Turing on a switch. But then again us old folk have nothing better to do any way. ha ha
Well there is always letter writing to the Federal politicians, it is a waste time bothering with the provincial people.
Thanks for Listening

 

[Richard Hed]

Lets begin by saying I have exceeded the manufacturers warranty by a few years.
My interests have been Amateur Radio, Having worked in the Industry for the majority of my life the hobby got old.
I have always been interested in things mechanical, so in 2012 I took the leap and bought from the Little Machine Shop a 3536 Lathe and a 3960 Mill. complete with Chris's recommended starting Tool sets.
Finally after retiring for the third time this past July I am getting around to finishing the shop.
having the Lathe sitting on their original Pallets on the floor in the basement has been rather embarrassing to say the least.
I built two workbench one for the Lathe and one for the Mill, using the ShopFox Leg system from the local BusyBeeTool store.
I used qty 2 layers of 3/4 inch Plywood as the surface of the Workbench.
My plan is to use an epoxy based Varathane, to keep the initial setup simple.
I have a few first project plans lined up.
First a Test Bar for the Lathe
A Dual Dial Indicator Tramming device for the Mill
From there I also have seven projects Like the Eccentric Engineering Acute Tool Sharpening System Kit.
As Most of you have already been there done that, we have more on the Project Wish List than we have Life to live.
Thanks for Listening

Wait a minute, you mean your machines sat there for 8 years?

 

[Richard Hed]

I have the Eccentric Engineering Acute Tool Sharpening System Kit. Now I have to acquire all the metric tapping drills and the reamers.
And you are very correct it is a very nice unit.
I have the tormek Drill bit sharpening attachment, which enables me to sharpen my drill to a four facet point.
Until you have used a four facet drill bit you do not know what you have been missing.
It took me a couple of days to get used to how to hold my tongue to get it just right. so I see your location as between Tyne and Tees which puts you in the north east of England. we are in the frozen north west of Canada
My daughter lives in London her husband is working on the Oxford Vaccine

Don't just bait us, tell us the secret of your four facet drill bits.

 

[goldstar31]

Dean Henry Liddell and Scott transliterated from the Greek.
Back to drill sharpening, 4 and indeed 6 facet drill grinding seems to be from Professor Chaddock who developed the Quorn from the Deckel( 1974). I have the Mark 1 Quorn and a Deckel clone( amongst other goodies)
The principle is grinding a first and second cut very similar to what some people call end mills and -- slot drills.
Moving over to the 4 facet system virtually dispenses with the need to have Slocombe or centre drills.
There are lots of very similar jigs which will do precisely the same as the rather expensive ones.
You, can, of course, return to the Van Royen principle( if that is what it is generally called

Of course it is great fun to cut 1" TPI thread on a 1.25" pillar which is part and parcel of all three versions of the Quorn. You could, however. make a Bonelle s a no casting version.

The plan is free but it sorts the talkers from the doers.
I was having a play with my 'Acute' the other day and felt that the whole panjandrum could be made from scrap( apart from the handles) but as it - that is the plans only costs 20quid but as it does end mills both in Aloxite and CBN, it could conceivably do drills equally wwell.

 

[Courierdog]

Yes for the most part the machines sat on their respective pallets for most of 8 years.
I was working as a Contract Courier and was busy working, until July and the Stress of working during COVID-19 and delivering to the Medical Labs and Hospital just wore me out. So I retired.
This time I was ready to retire.
Two weeks ago I fell on my bad keen again and now I am laid up trying to recover. Extremely painful to say the least.
I just received the two Face Mills I ordered, both use the 1604 Style Carbide insert.
One uses the insert in the vertical plane the other use the same insert in the horizontal plane.
Both are held into an R8 arbor so should according to the reviews I have read run quite well on the mini-mill providing you do not use excessive cuts.
The resultant finish from what I have been reading is very dependent on matching the actual insert design parameters there are variations with in the 1604 family for virtually each metal you want to cut or finish.
The claim is by selecting the correct insert you can Hogg off material or create a mirror finish.
We will see how true this is.
I will purchase a few more inserts then when I have things ready to go I will start and document with pictures each cut and finish. If noting else it should prove interesting.
The insert are easy enough to change out
Obtaining the correct inserts for the desired finish will be the trick.
Documenting the results should assist others in their decision making.
When I obtained the Mill in 2014 there was no known face mill that would run on these machines.
From what I am now reading this has all changes thanks to the abundant Chinese manufacturing capability.
I also now order directly and save myself the frustration of dealing through a US based middle man and all the attending brokerage fees being charged.

As to my 4 facet drill bits, I use the Tormek DBS-22.
While this has been quite an investment, over time since I first purchased the basic machine, and one Jig or one grinding stone at a time, it still adds up but lessens the feel of the pinch in the wallet.
The Drill grinding Jig is a rather sizeable affair. I this a rather steep learning curve but after a couple days I can now sharpen the drills above 1/4 inch with reasonable assurance.
I am working on the smaller sizes which does take much more patience and a very light touch.
a four facet drill is a wonder to use and produces more round holes with far less effort.
I had originally purchased the drill sharpening Jig expressly for building the Acute Tool Sharpening System.
Most of the construction demands a lot of hols to be drilled, Edges to be milled, and surfaces to be faced off. It will allow me to practice the basics of each machining process in minor but great detail.
I consider this the single biggest learning adventure I currently have on the go.
I have the face mills which can be used to cut a square sided milling process on the side of a piece of metal.
My pet project to create a Tangential Fly-Cutter based on a Flywheel is my current obsession.
I have used the Dimond Tool current on the Lathe and have fund it does everything it claims to be able to do.
A Very inexpensive tool to use as it uses HSS or Crobalt tool bits which can be sharpened on the average Bench Grinder.. Having used a Fly Cutter in the Lab on a mush larger machine and seen its capabilities I am convinced that for most of my amateur machinist tasks it will suffice and do so at a modest expense.
I have not found anyone who has done what I have in mind so I may be charting a new path in muddy waters.
I have spoken to others who have far greater knowledge and experience and they can shed no light on the subject either. So Time Will Tell, will it be a quiet success or a Colossal Failure???

 

[Courierdog]

Wait a minute, you mean your machines sat there for 8 years?

Yes for the most part, they sat on their respective pallet

 

[Richard Hed]

Yes for the most part, they sat on their respective pallet

I'm still interested in your four facet drill bits. Can you show a photo?

 

[kop]

My interests have been Amateur Radio, Having worked in the Industry

AF7XT
I spent most of my working life in mechanical and machine.
I have talked to the Little Machine Shop on several occasions also. I appreciate their help with QCTP and other items.
I already had years of experience with cutting tools but still learned something from ...

it isn't really black magic or voodoo but it does require a bit of doing it wrong to get it right.
After a time you begin to "feel" feed speeds and depth of cut. It really comes down to matching cutting tool geometry with surface speed and diameter with each material.
I found that the minimum cut for most carbide inserts was far too deep for smaller lathes resulting in massive work and tool deflection. Our smaller machines just are not up to it.
I've used HSS on 1018 as well as 4140 PH (32-38r) as well as softer materials.
My nemesis is stainless with Naval bronze and alumina-phosphor-silicon bronze a close second.
Stainless , because , well, stainless and the bronze because the difference between burnishing and cutting a finish pass is a very slight difference. The APS bronze is a bugger because even moderate heat in the work will change it's dimensions while machining.

Okay TMI but I felt like typing

 

[Richard Hed]

AF7XT
I spent most of my working life in mechanical and machine.
I have talked to the Little Machine Shop on several occasions also. I appreciate their help with QCTP and other items.
I already had years of experience with cutting tools but still learned something from ...

it isn't really black magic or voodoo but it does require a bit of doing it wrong to get it right.
After a time you begin to "feel" feed speeds and depth of cut. It really comes down to matching cutting tool geometry with surface speed and diameter with each material.
I found that the minimum cut for most carbide inserts was far too deep for smaller lathes resulting in massive work and tool deflection. Our smaller machines just are not up to it.
I've used HSS on 1018 as well as 4140 PH (32-38r) as well as softer materials.
My nemesis is stainless with Naval bronze and alumina-phosphor-silicon bronze a close second.
Stainless , because , well, stainless and the bronze because the difference between burnishing and cutting a finish pass is a very slight difference. The APS bronze is a bugger because even moderate heat in the work will change it's dimensions while machining.

Okay TMI but I felt like typing

Wait a minute--WAIT A MINUTE, all this time I thot it was VOODOO. Maybe that's why nothing comes out right the first time.

Where in Seattle?

 

[goldstar31]

Whilst I cannot possibly comment about anywhere other than my small bit of the UK, people here are not only bored beyond belief but we- or most of us are more than stoney broke.
This morning, the report which I do not doubt, said almost a million workers had been made redundant and to make matters even worse, mandatory paybacks on one major credit card was vastlty icreasing( and no money to do it?.
I'm sort of OK but I have been helping my family during the lockdown and have not emerged into the daylight for almost a YEAR!
So is anyone here remotely interested in constantly repeating advice to people whom we we will never meet or worse, whom we will know will not take any notice to whatever is gratuitously been given in the recent past?

People are now so disillusioned that they are not even interested in their own hobbies.
I've got a multimillionaire who is 'doing' jigsaw puzzles and I spoke to a lady who was a senior hospital consultant who is escaping to the local shop( illegally) to buy doodle word games.

So think again, rude replies to constantly repeated questions may erupt or- worse for the forum, leave for ever

My thoughts,

Norman

 

[Courierdog]

goldstar31:
Take heart, and know at least you have some leaders, including the Queen, who believe in and had had the ***. Slowly life will return, perhaps not as well once considered normal, but it will be more normal than now.
Also you enjoy much warmer weather than we do here in Canada or the members in Seattle, we are currently at -21C very cloudy in Edmonton, +4C in Seattle.as you are experiencing in Tees, UK
Sharing our common hobby of everything Machinery related.
BTW I use the Avatar of our favourite Rottweiller as she is far better looking than my self.
another project I have kicking around in my head Dual Dial Gauge Mill Tramming Tool, started by Bogstandard the basic idea is to create a truly accurate measuring tool, BUT, here is the Idea as put forward by MichaelP make the device look optically so crude and ugly and if possible optically out of balance. Yes there are those of us who have a perverted sense of humour. Especially as we attempt to teach others. The essence is look beyond the appearance, and look to results. This is true of people as well.
If any of you out there in the hobby Machinist world enjoy a good prank and have a suggestion please send along your thoughts.
Thanks for Listening Everyone

 

[Richard Hed]

goldstar31:
Take heart, and know at least you have some leaders, including the Queen, who believe in and had had the ***. Slowly life will return, perhaps not as well once considered normal, but it will be more normal than now.
Also you enjoy much warmer weather than we do here in Canada or the members in Seattle, we are currently at -21C very cloudy in Edmonton, +4C in Seattle.as you are experiencing in Tees, UK
Sharing our common hobby of everything Machinery related.
BTW I use the Avatar of our favourite Rottweiller as she is far better looking than my self.
another project I have kicking around in my head Dual Dial Gauge Mill Tramming Tool, started by Bogstandard the basic idea is to create a truly accurate measuring tool, BUT, here is the Idea as put forward by MichaelP make the device look optically so crude and ugly and if possible optically out of balance. Yes there are those of us who have a perverted sense of humour. Especially as we attempt to teach others. The essence is look beyond the appearance, and look to results. This is true of people as well.
If any of you out there in the hobby Machinist world enjoy a good prank and have a suggestion please send along your thoughts.
Thanks for Listening Everyone

I wasn't listening, I was READING!

 

[Courierdog]

The Term Listening is Generic for the recipient of Communication, be they Verbal, Text or Illustration.
No offence intended.
I have this type of discussion with my daughter all the time, who is a literalist in the extreme.

 

[goldstar31]

Courierdog- Thanks but it is a long, LONG time since I was a penniless, little urchin from a long dirty little redbrick street with washeed out sugar bags for bedding and a tin bath on a nail in the yard with an earth privvy that had its ash covered contents emptied weekly by- 'midnight mechanics'.
As for cold- well I did train out in winter in Arctic Norway and slept in a paper body bag in the snow.
Canada, I'm assured is not the only place with snow. FYI, I had 3 appartments all above 1600 metres in the Savoie Alps until 5 years ago and I sold my Bhutt and Bhein in the Scottish Cairngorms which if they were an inch or so higher, would be tundra. I taught my children to ski and climb and to feed the reindeer on oranges and wholemeal biscuits
Howver, and it more important, I learnt not only to be aware of the plight of others but to care for them.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
A daughter? Perhaps not quite a bright as her Mum but still a mouthful of dental degrees, an orchestra of musical instruments, fast enough on her skies to be on the French National Junior Ski register. Neverthe less she was bright enough to teach dentistry in Canada when her huband was a senior consultant heart surgeon there.

Clears aged throat- well now?

 

[Richard Hed]

The Term Listening is Generic for the recipient of Communication, be they Verbal, Text or Illustration.
No offence intended.
I have this type of discussion with my daughter all the time, who is a literalist in the extreme.

It's in refernence to your joke. If one cannot communicate using jokes or music to get around to what you REALLY mean, tshen why try to communicate?