New Thread - Metric Design

[ShopShoe]

Good Morning All,

As I browse my way through the forum I see so many discussions regarding metric plans and practices. I have no problems with metric and can interpret and redesign so as to make something in my shop. After all, I am a hobbiest and usually what I make is a one-off or somethng to match something else anyway.

After reading new member SuleymanCanan's request for beginner's plans in metric, I went trolling through the Downloads section and found this plan:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/downloads/wobbler-ejs-112.html

Member ChrisB built and posted a thread in December of 2011:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f43/chrisb-builds-ejs-wobbler-16162/

I would suggest that this plan meets the request, but perhaps needs some refinements and instructions to be more helpful to a beginner.

I also started my browse of the plans on the forum with the knowledge that some members team-designed a beginner's project a while back and wanted to see if there was a metric version available.

Cut to the chase: I would be interested in working on a team design and build of a metric plan set for something simple. The selfish part of my desire in this is so practice my CAD and presentation skills and hopefully to help work through some of the issues that have been discussed on this forum as regards plans that are hard to use or incomplete. I would also like to machine something simple in order to work through the practical aspects of such a project.

What Makes this Hard for me:

I am in the middle of the US and, while metric tooling may be available, metric material sizes are rare.
My CAD program is basic but can be used with metric units, but scales and presents awkwardly to screen and paper: I am convinced this can be overcome and we are hobbiests - I think working through these issues can add to the group knowledge.
Family issues and health problems make my forum and shop time undependable, but I believe work WILL get done anyway. To paraphrase the discussion on the Brian Rupnow Engine project: "This is not a race."

I realize I am kinda "out there" with this, but I want to give back to this forum as I have found a second home here no matter what else is gong on in my world.

--ShopShoe

 

[Lawijt]

Great Shopshoe. If there are more plans in metric it will be great. I live in Belgium & all here is metric.
When all recalculate , there are a lot of missers.

Barry

 

[SuleymanCanan]

Hi, appart the EJS project I remember having seen another metric project but unfortunetly can't find in the download part.
but hope this tread will help metric guies like me

cheers

Good Morning All,

As I browse my way through the forum I see so many discussions regarding metric plans and practices. I have no problems with metric and can interpret and redesign so as to make something in my shop. After all, I am a hobbiest and usually what I make is a one-off or somethng to match something else anyway.

After reading new member SuleymanCanan's request for beginner's plans in metric, I went trolling through the Downloads section and found this plan:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/downloads/wobbler-ejs-112.html

Member ChrisB built and posted a thread in December of 2011:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f43/chrisb-builds-ejs-wobbler-16162/

I would suggest that this plan meets the request, but perhaps needs some refinements and instructions to be more helpful to a beginner.

I also started my browse of the plans on the forum with the knowledge that some members team-designed a beginner's project a while back and wanted to see if there was a metric version available.

Cut to the chase: I would be interested in working on a team design and build of a metric plan set for something simple. The selfish part of my desire in this is so practice my CAD and presentation skills and hopefully to help work through some of the issues that have been discussed on this forum as regards plans that are hard to use or incomplete. I would also like to machine something simple in order to work through the practical aspects of such a project.

What Makes this Hard for me:

I am in the middle of the US and, while metric tooling may be available, metric material sizes are rare.
My CAD program is basic but can be used with metric units, but scales and presents awkwardly to screen and paper: I am convinced this can be overcome and we are hobbiests - I think working through these issues can add to the group knowledge.
Family issues and health problems make my forum and shop time undependable, but I believe work WILL get done anyway. To paraphrase the discussion on the Brian Rupnow Engine project: "This is not a race."

I realize I am kinda "out there" with this, but I want to give back to this forum as I have found a second home here no matter what else is gong on in my world.

--ShopShoe

 

[Lawijt]

The EZ engine is also Metric. I build it & it was great too build. Also a great runner.

Barry

 

[Woodster]

I could whip up plans/drawings for a metric flame eater made entirely from barstock and RC model parts (Bearings mainly) if anybody is interested. All parts can be done on a 7 X 12 lathe, no milling attachment, just some "inventive" workholding. You don't even need a 4 jaw chuck! You will need to sacrifice a 5/6 thou feeler gauge though.



I've had a tacho on this one and got it to just over 1300 RPM using only a Zippo lighter (I'm to impatient to make a burner once the engine is running).

 

[KLG]

Metric conversion with some slightly off topic.
Hi fellow modelers,
I have just had a look at my letter of introduction to this group and I see that I wrote it in 09-10-2012. I have now finished my model and I am quite pleased with it. Building it has been a steep learning curve for me but it mostly off topic so I have filtered this from a larger article that I intend to post to this group.
The intervening time has not all been spent just working on the engine but it is clear to me that you might find it interesting the the sorts of problems that I encountered here in Oz during the construction of this engine. For those who don’t know Oz is a metricated country from the British Inch system so there is a lot of tooling here in both English and Metric. Some of my reamers are in inches and some in mm (millimetres) I have some Inch drills, a full set of number drills 0-60 and the smaller set from 60 onward and a set of metric from 1-6mm in 0.1 increments. Prior to metrification in the Mid60's?? our major thread systems were BSW and and SAE . For fine work we used BA. We did not really have the SAE system here in any volume.
I have ended up using BA and Metric coarse which is now the standard thread system here in Oz. With the Metrification of sizes of materials we have ended up with a hodge-podge of sizes because “whole” metric sizes were chosen with a reduction in the number of items for a reduction of inventory e.g 3/4 inch became 19mm etc.3/8inch became either 9 or 10 mm, Consequently we here in Oz have a different set of problems building to plans, as our personal toolboxes have a mixture of metric and inch tooling
The other thing here is the cost of tooling which is outrageous and can be of poor quality. I am envious of the cost and availability of stuff both from USA and Gt Britain. It appears to be sourced from Asia, but we are charged 2-3times more.

I also look Enviously at what seems to be the ready availibility of materials. It is even hard getting silver steel here (drill rod-water hardening rod)

It would find it very usefull if the blokes from Oz mentioned which capital city they came from and their friendly sources of supply. For example I went shopping for some blocks of Ally the other day and I found a company called Capral at Dry Creek who had a really good range of offcuts up to a couple of inches thick available at the front door - half the price of having stuff cut so size.
I notice that from time to time that this news groups readers ask if plans are available in english or metric, and so I thought that I would detail out a little bit how I work through this sort of problem.
I use what I call a workbook. It’s designed for laboratory experiments, but but any book will do that you can paste a photo copy of the plans that you are constructing on alternate pages. I then take a nice fine 0.5mm Pilot Vpoint pen and convert ALL the measurements to metric on the plan. It’s not that difficult - it only requires a calculator. It also focuses the mind on the project. The next step is to convert the screw thread sizes to something that I can get or have in stock.
I have shown a photo of my “workbook” which shows the frame drawing of Puttput man’s very small engine which I started a couple of days ago. I am intending to photograph the build of this little beauty just to say I have done it.
Cheers,
Kerry from Oz

 

[Swifty]

Kerry, re your problem obtaining silver steel. You mentioned that it would be handy if members mentioned which capital city area they came from, although you don't mention where you are from. However a google map search for Dry Creek means that you are near Adelaide. Silver steel should not be hard to source, there is a Blackwoods store in Regency Park 4.4 km from Dry Creek, they should have silver steel. Failing that Hales Tool and Die Supplies at Kurralta Park sell products to the toolmaking industry, my local Hales store has every size silver steel that you could possibly want.

Paul.

 

[ShopShoe]

(Please forgive one reply to all that has been generated so far)

Lawijt,

Thanks for the info. I thought that the EZ Engine was available in both formats, but the search function on this forum failed to find it with several different entries in the search box:

(OT: Moderators and Austin: How picky is the search engine onsite? Do boolean entries work?)

The other project that I know is Gerry's Beam Engine in Metric: I have this down as a future build for me:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/downloads/gerrys-beam-engine-metric-pdf-244.html

Woodster,

Your idea sounds on target. Are the "RC Parts" standard and available in North America?

Can you put together a bill of materials so we can see what might be involved?

What tooling / toolbits are needed: Particularly the grooving tool for the cylinder?

KLG,

I have used your approach in both directions and agree that it works and works well. First convert all metric to All Imperial OR or all Imperial to Metric (getting rid of those pesky fractions in the process, if they exist) then adjust for cutters and material available.

As I said before, fasteners and cutters can be obtained in many cases, It's just material sizes that may be a problem sometimes.

-----

I still don't know where we're going with this, but it may turn out to be interesting.

--ShopShoe

 

[Woodster]

ShopShoe - The bearings used are from an old R/C helicopter that had a fatal encounter with a concrete post. The sizes of the bearings are 3mm Bore X 8mm OD X 4mm wide (the engine uses 2 of these) and 6mm bore X 12mm OD X 4mm wide (2 of these as well). Everything else was made from odd bits of bar ends and scrap. Whatever i could find really.
Will post a parts list and photos soon.

 

[ShopShoe]

Thanks Woodster

--ShopShoe

 

[rodw]

Good to see the interest in metric plans. Finding the metric plans for the EZ Runner was the reason why I joined this forum. I can recommend it to beginners who like me have banned imperial measurements from their life. I learnt so much by building it.

I really think th EZ should be promoted more on this forum because it was designed by forum members as an easy to make beginner engine with both metric and Imperial plans.

Yes, Australia converted from imperial to metric when I was at primary school (in the '70's), it is time to get with the times and embrace the change. I know plenty in my age group who are still clinging to imperial measurements!