Mounting parts using superglue and releasing them ...

[ChooChooMike]

I finally got around to trying out using superglue to hold a part so I could machine it in my mill (Sherline).

I'm experimenting with a small (3/4" & 1/2" o.d.) brass and steel flywheels (I'm building the "Millie" steam engine from the Sherline book, yes will post a build thread ! ) I turn down the diameter on my lathe (also Sherline), part it off, then need to make it to the right thickness - either 1/8" or 1/4". The 1/8" doesn't leave much to grip on to put back into the 3-jaw to clean off the parted-off end and to desired thickness. Plus aligning it is then a PITA unless I have some sort of spacer plate between the face of the 3-jaw and the part itself.

Spacer plate tip

So I vaguely remembered someone mentioned using superglue to hold temporarily hold a part. So I used superglue gel 1st with using a brass round on an aluminum scrap plate in the mill. I held the plate down with standard mill clamps. Light cuts (2-5 thou) seemed to work ok. Went a little heavier and the brass got kicked out.

I looked at the superglue bond and it wasn't covering the whole bottom of the brass round. Hmmm, even when I clamped the parts together while letting the superglue dry should have spread the gel around ?? I tried again, filing off the old glue and making sure the alum plate and brass round's bottom where flat. It got kicked out again.

Hmmm, next I tried the steel round/alum plate with the liquid (non-gel) superglue and it's held up just great with mild cut (2-5 thou). I haven't tried the steel/alum/superglue-gel or brass/alum/superglue-liquid variations yet.

I'll post some pictures in the next day or so.

Now my question is, what's the best way to release the 2 parts - i.e. steel from aluminum plate ? I've seen notes on using acetone (e.g. fingernail polish remover) or hitting it with a heat gun/torch to break down the superglue.

Any suggestions ?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Twmaster]

Acetone and heat are the two common methods. Just be careful about the fumes while heating that stuff.

I cannot use CA glue at all. I'm allergic. I get flu-like symptoms when exposed to even the smallest amounts unless I am outdoors.

Have you tried double sided tape?

 

[vlmarshall]

CA (superglue) works a lot better from a new bottle, with older stuff taking longer to kick, and not bonding as strongly, as a fresh bottle.

Sorry to hear about your reaction, TW... I've heard of several people who can't use the stuff for the same reason.

 

[ChooChooMike]

Acetone and heat are the two common methods. Just be careful about the fumes while heating that stuff.

Thanks for that warning, I'd forgotten about that. Figured I'd either blast it with a heat gun or the micro-torch I just bought from Home Depot.

Have you tried double sided tape?

Not yet. Any recommendation on which tape to use ? I'd think the standard 2-sided cellophone variety is too weak for this case ??

CA (superglue) works a lot better from a new bottle, with older stuff taking longer to kick, and not bonding as strongly, as a fresh bottle.

Good point. These are brand new tubes. I'm thinking the gel variety is NOT the one to use since it seems to add some thickness to the bond and might not allow the mounted piece to be flat ??

 

[vlmarshall]

Well, the first parts I glued a few months ago stayed stuck when I used the thin stuff, after a few attempts with CA gel... so I guess we're both getting the same results.

The doublesided tape I use is the stuff we use at work for the same purpose... it only says "Permacell" on the roll. It's about .005" thick, and sticks fairly well to flat, degreased surfaces, until you hit it with oil, coolant, WD40, Tap Magic, layout fluid remover, or just about anything else. Still, it works well on large surfaces, and is especially nice when skimming baseplates flat.

 

[BillC.]

The 'double sticky' works best for really precision parts because 'super glue' will harden out thick and thin. You can get the very thin stuff but it still will give grief. My problem with both is that I will diddle around with one of the nested parts before completion and knock the whole mess loose - then attempt to reset the part....impatience at its best...must feelie-touchie too soon.

Bill C.

 

[techonehundred]

If you are having any trouble getting the Ca to cure, just use a little Baking soda. It will make the ca cure instantly.

 

[bearcar1]

I have used both methods to assist in holding parts that were either too small to hold mechanically or I did not wish to get fancy and fabricate a holding fixture due to the time factor. The gel CA glues have proven to be crap and I now use either the Loctite brand of adhesive (medium viscosity) or a product known to RC aircraft builders as JET (brand name) Usually I will apply an easy but firm pressure to the part and allow that to begin setting up and then after about 10 minutes hit the joint with a kicker spray and allow that to stand overnight. To release the bond, an application of heat from a propane torch is most effective as long as the flame is kept moving to prevent localized overheating and discoloration of the part. The Ca will at this point 'crystallize' and turn a brownish color that is easy to remove with minimal abrasion. Double sided tape is a whole different animal and I have found that the thin DS tape used for carpet installs works a treat if sufficient pressure is applied and enough time is allowed for the adhesive to melt and get a good grip. To release, judicious use of a single edged razor blade to wedge the tape from the mounting surface is in order. light cuts is the game using both methods. I have seen a professional specific product in the McMaster Carr catalog that is design to use heat to activate as well as release but have not had the opportunity to use, but it sure sounds decent.

BC1
Jim

 

[BillC.]

Yes, very much agree - light cuts indeed with either method.

Thinking; Dentists seem to use cutting edge plastic and adhesive technology. I'm envious of the UV cured adhesives that they use.... The perfect adhesive is purposely set, then purposely released... That adhesive is water. But it's tough to maintain those sub zero temperatures in the shop while machining that delicate part!!

Bill C.

 

[mklotz]

If you're using CA, the surfaces have to be scrupulously clean and free of oil. I use carburetor cleaner. Don't touch the to-be-glued surfaces after cleaning.

 

[steamer]

ligher fluid works very well as a cleaning solvent, and the container is handy...BE CAREFUL!

Additionally, if your mounting is a faceplate, make a sacraficial one and cut concentric grooves in it as it will help the cure. without the grooves, the glue doesn't kick off as well. It needs the moisture in the air as a catalyst. The grooves help.

Old Clockmakers trick..........

Dave

PS The glue will break down if you wave a torch at it...don't go nuts here...just soften it.

Acetone will clean off the residue remaining.


This does really work very well....but you need the grooves!

Dave

 

[shred]

I much prefer superglue to double-stick tape. The tape I've used is more of a pain to clean off, doesn't work well with coolant and gets squirmy with less heat.. sometimes just the machining heat. I've heard of better tape without some of these issues, but the model airplane CA works well enough I've not gone looking for it.

 

[Deanofid]

Mike, the grooves that Dave is talking about make all the difference.
Here are a couple of arbors I use for thin parts on the lathe;

I use superglue gel often, and have no problems with it setting up. If you are mounting something on a square mounting piece, you can still use the circular grooves, (they don't have to be the same shape as what you are machining). I find the gel actually more useful than the thin kind. It gives you a few more seconds for repositioning and getting things were you want them before it sets.
The two pieces have to sit very flat against each other for it to work well, whether thick or thin.
You don't have to cover all the grooves with the glue. For the larger arbor, I just put little dabs of it here and there, in maybe, 10 spots.

To remove parts, a propane torch works great, and fast. Only takes a few seconds. Don't vaporize the glue, for your own sake.

Dean

 

[BobWarfield]

I use both Superglue and Loctite all the time to hold parts temporarily. I release with heat, and the fumes are very nasty so I do it outside.

From my RC model days, superglue is available in many viscosities, and you can also buy a spray on "Zap Kicker" that will instantly cure the glue on contact. Baking soda also works as was mentioned.

Cheers,

BW

 

[starbolin]

... Just be careful about the fumes while heating that stuff.

...

Important safety tip here. The fumes from heating have the ability to glue your eyelids to your eyeballs. Very painful. Flushing the eye doesn't seem to help but your eye doctor or local emergency room have a solution that makes it better real quick so don't delay in treatment. I repeat, the fumes can be very troublesome.

 

[JMI]

Important safety tip here. The fumes from heating have the ability to glue your eyelids to your eyeballs. Very painful. Flushing the eye doesn't seem to help but your eye doctor or local emergency room have a solution that makes it better real quick so don't delay in treatment. I repeat, the fumes can be very troublesome.

This may be true, I don't know.

I use to do a lot of stick welding. There was a story going around about contact lens being fused to eyeballs due to unprotected arc-flash/arc-burn. My understanding was there was no validity to the story.
Now the stories about severe burns to welders carrying plastic disposable lighters in shirt/pants pockets when ignited by sparks were factual.

Jim

 

[shred]

This may be true, I don't know.

I use to do a lot of stick welding. There was a story going around about contact lens being fused to eyeballs due to unprotected arc-flash/arc-burn. My understanding was there was no validity to the story.
Now the stories about severe burns to welders carrying plastic disposable lighters in shirt/pants pockets when ignited by sparks were factual.

Jim

I can believe that.. I had a plastic lighter leak and catch fire in a jacket pocket once (not welding, but just stuck my hand in there and it sparked). Nearly required skin grafts on the backs of 3 fingers.

 

[starbolin]

This may be true, I don't know.
...
Jim

Happened to an employee of mine. We had some PC board parts that were glued on with CA. They were told repeatedly to remove the bad parts by cutting and scraping but everytime I stopped by they were using a heat gun to remove the parts. Well, sure enough, this guy comes up to my desk with a towel over his eye and says he has eye pain. I peaked under the towel and his eye was stuck shut. The doc at the emergency clinic gave me the 411 as to flushing not helping. He put some drops in there and the guy's eye was back to normal pretty quick.

Now later on I found out that what he had done was put too much CA down in trying to reattach a part and was trying to dry up the CA with the heat gun. Liquid CA and heat will coat anything in sight with a microscopic glue layer. That's what the CI's use to lift fingerprints.