Model Engineering in the 21st Century

[GreenTwin]

I look forward in the electrical industry that I am in, trying to stay ahead of the game as far as changes in the electrical industry.

It is a lot easier to stay up to date on what is changing, than to not be aware of the changes, and then an owner of some big company says "Why don't you use the latest technology? ".
You have to be able to respond with a good answer, like "Yes, this new switchgear type is good for your installation", or "No, this new switchgear design is not a good fit for your facility".

The trend in switchgear is to compact everything into a very tight enclosure, and sometimes a pressurized enclosure.
There is a great deal of pressure in the architectural world to minimize space used for services, and maximize spaces used for income generation.
And so often in things like highrise buildings and similar applications, this small-footprint switchgear goes in, and then if it fails, you either don't have access to even get new gear into the building, or you have to replace the entire lineup of gear because it fails catastrophically.

For large industrial/municipal facilities, the old tried and true metal clad fused switchgear has been proven to be modular and reliable over long periods of time. For a large facility, space is generally not an issue when you have millions of square feet of space.
The same metal clad switchgear has been around for at least 50 years, and I am not aware of any new compacted switchgear that is modular and reliable.
You can easily add on to either end of existing switchgear, if you allocate space on either end in the original construction.

So its like driving a car down the highway.
You have to look ahead and see what is coming.

From a hobby standpoint, I wonder what the future holds, given the dramatic changes I have seen in computers and software just since 1980.

Some of this hobby has become virtual engine building/running, and I have seen complete steam locomotives virtually operated in this fashion.
I can see more virtual things in this hobby.
It seems to me that 3D modeling is a lot like virtual machining.

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[GreenTwin]

I suppose I represent those of us who come to this hobby from non-technical backgrounds. I have always been fascinated by anything with gears and motors. As a kid I tore apart toasters and radios to see how they worked. But university and married life sent me in other directions. Retirement has allowed me to return to tinkering. As a computer nerd I love 3D printing. I bought a lathe and mill and am thoroughly enjoying the adventure of learning how to use them. I will never be anything but a wannabe machinist but I have two steam engines under my belt and am looking forward to starting a simple gas engine. Since I started with no knowledge or experience every operation on the lathe and mill is a learning experience. Blondihacks and I have been going pretty steady. The constant mental challenge is a good antidote to my steadily dimming brain. Our recent trip to Egypt showed us the ancient belief that burying all manner of grave goods with the Pharaoh allowed him to use them in the afterlife. I’ll have to get the family to bury me with the lathe and mill so I can get my next engine finished.

I had a machining class in college, when I was in the technology department for a short while, and I recall using a shaper and lathe, but I did not learn very much, since I don't really learn complex things overnight.

I started machining in earnest in about 2009, and literally had to learn everything from scratch.
Machining things accurately is about paying attention to small details, and having seemingly infinite patience.

The reason I started casting engine parts is because all too often, I would hog out something like a steam engine cylinder from a large block of gray iron, and get to about 95% complete, only to make a mistake and ruin the part.
Cast parts can get you very close to final size/shape, and so now I can just skim a few surfaces, and I am done, with little risk of ruining a part due to heavy cuts, or wrong cuts, etc.

I can machine parts to perhaps 1/2 a thou now, and that is good enough for any engine work I do.
So I don't consider myself a machinist, but I can get the job done.

Blondihacks is very methodical in her methods, and I really think that is part of the secret of success with engine building.
I have tried to get here to make her own castings in her own foundry, and she has dabbled in that with others, but has not gotten into it herself.

I told my family I want to be buried with my CR500.
Warped, I know, but that is how I feel.

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[awake]

Our recent trip to Egypt showed us the ancient belief that burying all manner of grave goods with the Pharaoh allowed him to use them in the afterlife. I’ll have to get the family to bury me with the lathe and mill so I can get my next engine finished.

Yes!!

 

[GreenTwin]

Where did the ant discussion go to?
Edit:
Sorry, my bad, they went into another discussion.

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[minh-thanh]

Where did the ant discussion go to?
Ant discussions off limits now on this forum ?
Whats up with that?
If you want people to post on this forum, don't randomly delete their posts.
What else will you decide that we cannot discuss?
Please provide a list so we can avoid sensitive topics like ants in the future.
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????
I don't see any posts deleted in this thread .

 

[GreenTwin]

Sorry, my bad, they went into another post.
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[minh-thanh]

I confirm with you :
I don't see any posts deleted in this thread .

 

[GreenTwin]

Sorry, my bad; they went into another post.
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[Shelton]

Have you checked "Your Content"? I know I've not deleted anything of yours.

 

[GreenTwin]

Sorry, my bad.
I put those discussions in another post.
Old age is not fun.
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[clockworkcheval]

Hi Shopgeezer, I would like to suggest that you try to get your grandchilderen (or any other available youngsters) interested in your machines so you can leave them in their care. There are some risks. My oldest grandson started last year as 6th generation at the mechanical engineering department of the technical university of Delft, Holland. For his exercises in machining he brought along my 1970's machinist slide chart on which I trained him to find feeds and speeds for any combination of materials. He was asked how he got the chart, and was then advised to tell his granddad to donate the thing to a museum!

 

[timo_gross]

Hi Shopgeezer, I would like to suggest that you try to get your grandchilderen (or any other available youngsters) interested in your machines so you can leave them in their care. There are some risks. My oldest grandson started last year as 6th generation at the mechanical engineering department of the technical university of Delft, Holland. For his exercises in machining he brought along my 1970's machinist slide chart on which I trained him to find feeds and speeds for any combination of materials. He was asked how he got the chart, and was then advised to tell his granddad to donate the thing to a museum!

Why? Did they want it for their museum? Did they not understand it? Or were the values to outdated?

 

[ajoeiam]

Remembering the instructors that I had there were enough of them that I would respect far less now than I was supposed to then. They had a paltry few years in the trade, likely at a quite high level, but it was clear that some almost 30 years later that they weren't keeping up with the changes in the trade.

I'd bet that the chart mr clockworkcheval has has some obsolete areas and is missing some of the newest areas but that doesn't mean that the whole chart is only good for collecting dust (in a museum) rather that knowing how to use one chart means that all one needs is a few more values and the new stuff is encompassed.

As far as new materials - - - well - - - the sky is the limit and keeping up here - - - well - - I've given up. If I need the info - - - I dig - - - otherwise - - - I leave the pile alone!!!!

(You know high carbon cutting tools to high speed steel tools, to carbide tools (cemented bits), to compressed carbide tools, to micro coated carbide tools, to CBN tools, to whiskered ceramics, to . . . . (!!!)
Not saying its important to know how to use high carbon cutting tools but knowing their properties means that you have a far better idea of how to recognize materials - - - with no labels (you know when repairing stuff) - - - I found the three weeks (which seemed mind altering at the time) spent on learning almost decent skills with a file were terrifically useful in real life (when repairing complicated structures and getting them to fit AND run well!!!).)

 

[clockworkcheval]

My assesment is that those instructors are not really happy when there are no buttons to push. I checked the basic data and I find them agressive compared with what I find in the public domain.

 

[Steamchick]

Hi Green twin.
Noting your post #61. I did 4 years designing HV switchgear. Lowest I dealt with was 145kV., highest 550kV., on the product line I dealt with. It was all SF6 pressurised, out-door-stuff... But the future suggested that the indoor stuff was going to replace the outdoor (separate) designs, with just external insulator bushings to the line. Servicing equipment at 6~7 m above ground isn't as convenient as at ground level. I really have not watched the business since joining a car maker in 1986... But designing kit for a planned 40 to 60 year life means it has probably expired its lifetime by now... Because the accountants will have decided it "should have a computer attached"!? - or something. Am I getting cynical?
K2

 

[GreenTwin]

Hi Green twin.
Noting your post #61. I did 4 years designing HV switchgear. Lowest I dealt with was 145kV., highest 550kV., on the product line I dealt with. It was all SF6 pressurised, out-door-stuff... But the future suggested that the indoor stuff was going to replace the outdoor (separate) designs, with just external insulator bushings to the line. Servicing equipment at 6~7 m above ground isn't as convenient as at ground level. I really have not watched the business since joining a car maker in 1986... But designing kit for a planned 40 to 60 year life means it has probably expired its lifetime by now... Because the accountants will have decided it "should have a computer attached"!? - or something. Am I getting cynical?
K2

I stay on the medium voltage side, which for me is below 69kV.

I saw dual 161 kV lines feeding a nearby scrap mill that has large arc furnaces, and that gear looks like something that landed from outer space.
And those puffer breakers are impressive to watch.

I don't really like walking under exposed 23kV outdoor elevated bussing and switches, since the exposed parts are perhaps 6 feet above your head at best, and well withing arcing distance, but it pays pretty well since few are crazy enough to want to do it for a living.

I did a 35kV set of breakers and bussing at the steel mill, but luckily I did not have to walk under that to look at it.

The fellow who worked in the cube next to me was standing adjacent to an open 23kV switgear door, and they had been looking at cable sizes inside of it, while it was energized.
They stood up, stepped to one side, and it blew a larger arc out about 10 feet, narrowly missing about 4 people.

The 5kV gear that I have to work around quite a bit has a habit of failing, and one cubical failed perhaps a month after I surveyed it.
Not sure if I would have survived being in front of it, and definitely would have died had I been touching the enclosure.
The knife blades and contacts get old on the breakers and fused switches, and start to overheat, eventually blowing up the gear.

I have started specifying motorized drawouts on MV breakers and switches, so the operator can perform that function from 10 feet or more away with a pushbutton. There are a significant number of switchgear failures during drawout and insertion; went the stabs get out of alignment, even when the switch or breaker is open.

There is always the chance I will be inadvertently vaporized one day, but better to go out with a bang, than die in some hospital bed with a bunch of tubes stuck in you.

This one has some sort of fault, maybe on the bussing?
That guy does not have near enough gear on to be under that kind of voltage.


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[GreenTwin]

This is normal operation.
They stretch out the arc, and then blow it out like a candle with compressed air (called a puffer).

 

[Steamchick]

Hi Green twin. The arc will extinguish when it gets long, cold, and insufficient ionised air to maintain the arc.
The equivalent on a circuit breaker of the design I worked with is a huge bicycle-pump attached to the contacts. The contacts separate 7inches while the pump blows SF6 from inside the contacts to away from the contacts. But first the contacts accelerate over 2 inches of stroke so the pressure builds-up before the arc strikes, and the contacts are moving fast! Fully open in 0.16 seconds. 56 ft/sec average speed. over 120ft/sec max speed (from a vague memory?). 120g acceleration measured at the Air-motor piston (5inch stroke, 10inch diameter, 28bar air pressure). Breaking full short-circuit current (~5000A?) the arc was extinguished on the second zero voltage - before the end of stroke was reached.
So I never saw an arc. It was inside a 2m long porcelain insulator.
K2

 

[ajoeiam]

I stay on the medium voltage side, which for me is below 69kV.

I saw dual 161 kV lines feeding a nearby scrap mill that has large arc furnaces, and that gear looks like something that landed from outer space.
And those puffer breakers are impressive to watch.

I don't really like walking under exposed 23kV outdoor elevated bussing and switches, since the exposed parts are perhaps 6 feet above your head at best, and well withing arcing distance, but it pays pretty well since few are crazy enough to want to do it for a living.

I did a 35kV set of breakers and bussing at the steel mill, but luckily I did not have to walk under that to look at it.

The fellow who worked in the cube next to me was standing adjacent to an open 23kV switgear door, and they had been looking at cable sizes inside of it, while it was energized.
They stood up, stepped to one side, and it blew a larger arc out about 10 feet, narrowly missing about 4 people.

The 5kV gear that I have to work around quite a bit has a habit of failing, and one cubical failed perhaps a month after I surveyed it.
Not sure if I would have survived being in front of it, and definitely would have died had I been touching the enclosure.
The knife blades and contacts get old on the breakers and fused switches, and start to overheat, eventually blowing up the gear.

I have started specifying motorized drawouts on MV breakers and switches, so the operator can perform that function from 10 feet or more away with a pushbutton. There are a significant number of switchgear failures during drawout and insertion; went the stabs get out of alignment, even when the switch or breaker is open.

There is always the chance I will be inadvertently vaporized one day, but better to go out with a bang, than die in some hospital bed with a bunch of tubes stuck in you.

This one has some sort of fault, maybe on the bussing?
That guy does not have near enough gear on to be under that kind of voltage.


.

Video didn't show - - - hope he wasn't injured!!!

Major electrical power is nothing to be complacent about imo.
Appreciate the anecdotes y'all are sharing!!!
(Trying to learn without doing the hurtin')

 

[gbritnell]

How on earth did this topic get so off course?