Mill Tramming Tool.

[Omnimill]

Surely you have to swing this double indicator job round at least once anyway to check it is reading right?

You won't be able to see the gauges then! ;D

 

[Wizard69]

Whilst I can see and appreciate how the bent rod method works it seems a very messy way of doing it.

Re the Cincinnati Mills an their ilk. I went to an auction a little while back there was a couple of big machines and some shapers. Not a single bid for any of them. Crying shame to see the scrappies breaking them up with sledge hammers.

Why didn't you bid on them? It is really the only way to save our industrial history.

 

[Walltoddj]

BaronJ yes it is a shame but GM did the same thing and scraped machines, a few were not destroyed like GM wanted because I own a mill and a grinder from AC Delco which is GM.

Charles and Swifty I to would assume that you would have to swing them around to see what is what, I read something about how to set them up I'll have to look again but this time save it. I found the easy way is to use a mirror that is how I was trained to pick up the center lines on our injection molds when we set them up to mill and to check location from time to time.

Found it [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-D1gNYPi3A[/ame] very simple to set up!!!
Todd

 

[Wizard69]

Surely you have to swing this double indicator job round at least once anyway to check it is reading right?

I never understood the double indicator tool myself. Since day one the only accepted way to check tramming was to spin the spindle with an indicator mounted in it. You want to be swinging a fairly decent radius too.

By the way day one for me was working as a mechanics helper on machines that where hand scrapped to get tramming in correctly. None of this tilting the head to square it with the table. Hard work when the saddles weigh much more than you do.

 

[Omnimill]

You want to be swinging a fairly decent radius too.

Agreed. The reason I think the commercial units are so small is so that they can be used to check the X and Y axis on big mills with compound heads. I guess most hobbyists have more modest machines with heads that only tilt in one direction. My single head tool is effectively at least three times as long once rotated. It does take a little while to use it though. I still prefer this idea, similar to what I had in my mind except not as robust.

http://www.eztram.com/product_results.asp?ID=16

 

[BaronJ]

You won't be able to see the gauges then! ;D

If you have made the tool accurately you will only need to look at it from the front. When setting the tool up for the first time, swinging the tool round the other way would be a means of checking that your work was accurate. That is assuming that the mill was properly trammed in the first place.

I'll do another post on setting up later.

 

[necchiom]

Hi folks. Today I finished mine. Here it is!
The most important thing is the perpendicularity between the D12 main hole and the bottom surface so all holes axes parallelism.
Gouge datum/reset is easy using the inspection surface plate.

View attachment Tramming.pdf

 

[BaronJ]

Why didn't you bid on them? It is really the only way to save our industrial history.

Hi Wizard,

At the time they were of no use to me, nor could I have housed them or provided the 3 phase supply at the loading required. In any case my XYL would have had my guts for violin strings if I had come home with any of them.

However I do agree with your sentiment. I recently discovered that a foreign consortium was currently touring auctions and factories that were closing and buying up all sorts of machinery shipping it abroad, servicing and repairing it, selling it in their country, then using it to make goods that are then sold back to us.

 

[BaronJ]

If you have made the tool accurately you will only need to look at it from the front. When setting the tool up for the first time, swinging the tool round the other way would be a means of checking that your work was accurate. That is assuming that the mill was properly trammed in the first place.

I'll do another post on setting up later.

Hi Todd,

Thanks for that video... Saves me having to explain.

 

[BaronJ]

Hi folks. Today I finished mine. Here it is!
The most important thing is the perpendicularity between the D12 main hole and the bottom surface so all holes axes parallelism.
Gouge datum/reset is easy using the inspection surface plate.

Very nicely done. I like the sculpting out.

 

[barnesrickw]

I picked up the latest issue of Machinist's Workshop magazine. They have an article on making one of these from old Stanley combination squares. They are not nearly as nice looking.

 

[Wizard69]

Agreed. The reason I think the commercial units are so small is so that they can be used to check the X and Y axis on big mills with compound heads. I guess most hobbyists have more modest machines with heads that only tilt in one direction. My single head tool is effectively at least three times as long once rotated. It does take a little while to use it though. I still prefer this idea, similar to what I had in my mind except not as robust.



http://www.eztram.com/product_results.asp?ID=16

The way I see it those tools are basically useless. You can make any mill setup look good if you swing a small diameter.

 

[Swifty]

I suppose the ideal tramming tool to suit the mill that you have will have the indicators set to the maximum practical width of your mill table on the Y axis. Even using only one indicator, I only ever set it up to suit the Y axis width of my table.

Paul.

 

[Omnimill]

The way I see it those tools are basically useless. You can make any mill setup look good if you swing a small diameter.

It's designed for a mini mill so can't be too much bigger. The bigger unit designed for full size mills has at least the same size swing as the twin gauge units.

 

[Walltoddj]

It's designed for a mini mill so can't be too much bigger. The bigger unit designed for full size mills has at least the same size swing as the twin gauge units.

Yes they have different sizes the setup that necchiom and BaronJ made or have plans for are to small for my use I have a 9" table and a compound head so my machine would need a bigger span. Wizard69 it's all about making what suits your needs as we've said we use a bent bar to tram for years but if this will save me time and maybe be more accurate then what have I got to lose by making one? I think in my own case it will be handy because I move the head a lot to accommodate my jobs and needs, when I get the second mill up and running maybe I will not have this problem.

Todd

 

[BaronJ]

Yes they have different sizes the setup that necchiom and BaronJ made or have plans for are to small for my use I have a 9" table and a compound head so my machine would need a bigger span. Wizard69 it's all about making what suits your needs as we've said we use a bent bar to tram for years but if this will save me time and maybe be more accurate then what have I got to lose by making one? I think in my own case it will be handy because I move the head a lot to accommodate my jobs and needs, when I get the second mill up and running maybe I will not have this problem.

Todd

Hi Todd, Guys,
Yes I agree there is no great advantage to making one that is too short, or too long, since you then end up in the realm of not being able to adjust to that microscopic fraction, though I have to admit that it didn't occur to me that I might want/need to check if the head of the mill nodds at all. My mill table is 150mm wide. However it was pointed out to me that mine was too big for the table width. No problem it just means that I will have to do two checks to see if the mill nodds. Though I would be a little perturbed if it did.

 

[Walltoddj]

Don't feel bad I had to think about mine again my t-slot is in the middle of the table. I'd thought about making mine with adjustable arms to give a better read on the length of the table.

Todd

 

[Wizard69]

Yes they have different sizes the setup that necchiom and BaronJ made or have plans for are to small for my use I have a 9" table and a compound head so my machine would need a bigger span. Wizard69 it's all about making what suits your needs as we've said we use a bent bar to tram for years but if this will save me time and maybe be more accurate then what have I got to lose by making one? I think in my own case it will be handy because I move the head a lot to accommodate my jobs and needs, when I get the second mill up and running maybe I will not have this problem.

Todd

Just a couple of notes:
Sweeping a large diameter makes it easier to tram in your head not harder. Any deviation from ideal is magnified by the long sweep distance.

You are right that the machine needs to setup to meet your needs. If one never uses a fly cutter or other cutter sweeping a large diameter a perfectly. square spindle might not be seen as a big deal.

 

[Walltoddj]

Just a couple of notes:
Sweeping a large diameter makes it easier to tram in your head not harder. Any deviation from ideal is magnified by the long sweep distance.

You are right that the machine needs to setup to meet your needs. If one never uses a fly cutter or other cutter sweeping a large diameter a perfectly. square spindle might not be seen as a big deal.

Even if you use a 1/2" mill to cut a surface in more than one pass you will end up with a step or the amount you are out of tram. Yes the larger the sweep the less you'll be out?

Todd

 

[Swifty]

Just a couple of notes:
Sweeping a large diameter makes it easier to tram in your head not harder. Any deviation from ideal is magnified by the long sweep distance.

You are right that the machine needs to setup to meet your needs. If one never uses a fly cutter or other cutter sweeping a large diameter a perfectly. square spindle might not be seen as a big deal.

If you are drilling holes and using short and long drills, or moving the table up and down a lot (on those mills with a knee) the head needs to be trammed as the hole position will change with the quill or knee movement.

Paul.