Metric vs Imperial or vice versa

[rake60]

Don't tell any else Shred, but the 13MM would have worked just as well on
a 1/2" bolt. Something like that could make this whole apples to oranges
debate collapse.

13MM is .011" bigger than 1/2" but the bolt head would have been too
dumb to notice the difference.

8MM wrench will fit a 5/16 Bolt.
10MM wrench will work on a 3/8" bolt.
12MM will turn a 7/16 bolt but it will be a little sloppy.
Now if you happen to be using six point socket wrenches there's no
problem at all with those interchanges.

Yet these systems are worlds apart and totally incompatible!
(It does make for better reading... )

Rick

 

[shred]

Yeah, I always feel a little bad about using a metric wrench on an imperial bolt or vice-versa even though they fit ok, but I did think it was funny that when faced with a random bolt, I went fishing for the metric wrenches without even thinking about it.

 

[Lew Hartswick]

This discussion brings up a point I always wondered about. In the great "scheme of things" the "UNITS"
are always being brought up as the point of refrence, SO JUST WHY is the "UNIT" of mass in the
metric system the "KILO" (1000) of something???
This was always my first thought when working in physics where the two systems of CGS amd MKS
just seemed to be inconsistant. If the Pt bar is the standard for the Meter then the standard for masss
should be a Gram chunk of metal not 1000 of something. No problems but an inconsistancy.
...lew...

 

[mklotz]

CGS = centimeter - GRAM - second system
MKS = meter - KILOGRAM - second system

So there's no "inconsistancy" (sic).

BTW, the meter standard hasn't been a Platinum bar for a long time.

 

[Loose nut]

The main problem with the metric system meeting resistance is the fact that it was forced on us by our governments that caved into international pressure. What we need is a new system that is truly international and not French. I'm proposing a system based on the beer bottle (long necks). The standards committee would take a couple of cases of each type of beer and what ever one that they like the best then that brand of bottle becomes the new standard measuring system.
The volume of the bottle would be called a beer, 10 beer a case, 10 cases would be a DUI etc. 1/10 of a beer would be a gulp and 1/10 of a gulp would be a sip. The pressure inside a capped bottle would be the standard for pressure measurement and a new temp. scale would be, 0 degrees Beer = temp that a beer freezes and 100 degrees Beer = the temp that beer boils. The standard length meas. would be based on the length of the bottle, 10 bottle would = 1 stagger and so on.
This would be a truly international standard because beer is available everywhere (non-alcoholic for Muslim countries) and people rarely have to have it forced on them and it is a fully integrated system that is completely decimal in concept and as to availability of measuring standards you only have to go to your local beer supplier and buy the "standards" brand to have all the standard bottles you need.



If this sounds a little silly, it is, and if it sounds familiar, it should, it's basically the metric system with different names and values and the metric system had almost as much thought put into it as this one did. Any standard could be used it doesn't have to be one picked out by the French a couple of hundred years ago and forced onto Europe literally at gunpoint by Napoleon. If he wasn't trying to build an empire, metric would never have taken off and we would be using a different system that might be more acceptable to everyone, decimal based or otherwise.

 

[Bogstandard]

LN,

It seems that the system you envisage wouldn't be any good, it would be to volatile to use. Everything is too fluid, it only takes one person to have an extra gulp or sip and your measurement would be being piddled up a wall. Plus everyone, after a bit of measuring wouldn't give a damn about what it was doing there in the first place, they would be too busy falling over (except in Muslim countries, and then they could take over the world, because we would be too drunk to care about anything, then they could impose their own measurement system on us, just like Napoleon did) . ;D ;D

Maybe we should take a look at the German system, where I think it is law that they be allowed to have beer at machineside. If that is the case, I ever wonder as to how they manage to produce such wonderful precision.

But about your theory of having the metric system 'forced' upon us. How else would it be done, because the American people just don't think anything should change. Anything that they come up with, whether it be pineapples or molecules, will still have to be 'forced' on the population, just like Napoleon did.

But the metric system has survived, and it isn't doing too bad a job.

John

 

[Loose nut]

Maybe, but with my system after you get done collecting your "standards" you won't really care about anything else anyway, that's the beauty of it. We won't care if anything ever gets measured again so there won't be any argument over changing systems or which one is better, we'll all be having an nap.

 

[mklotz]

Loose Nut,

I can't seem to puzzle out whether you're so anti-metric because it wasn't thought up by Canadians/English or because you feel there's something fundamentally wrong with it.

If it's the latter, perhaps you can explain what you think the faults are. Considering the amount of research and refinement that's gone into it (much by non-French scientists), it will be interesting to see if your objections have any validity or whether they're simply I-just-don't-like-it objections.

John's correct. Any change aimed at international standardization is going to have to be forced on people who are only comfortable with their quaint antique tradesmen's measures.

 

[John S]

I don't have a vested interest in Imperial or metric, I have to work to both given that the work I do is spread over a 100 year period of machinery.

One thing I have noticed though is metric has one standard and Imperial has two.

In metric it's aways decimal 8.25mm 124.78 mm etc, one standard.

Imperial has fractions and decimal. OK it's easy on the standard ones 1/4" is 0.250" but when you get a print with 27/64" on it and you have to half that to get a radius to turn to then it's open to error.

The answer is to make prints with decimal sizes on be it imperial or metric but in real life this doesn't happen.
To me because there is no conversion in metric, it's already in decimal it's easier.

Another point I didn't see in the earlier pages but I may have missed it is threads and tapping sizes.

With metric there is no need for any tables. It can all be done in your head by subtracting the pitch from the diameter so a 10mm x 1.5 thread is drilled 8.5mm, a fine 10mm x 1.25 pitch would be drilled 8.75mm. That simple formula works over the whole of the metric range.

John S.

 

[mklotz]

That formula works just as well for Imperial threads, e.g., 1/4-20 tap...

0.25 - 1/20 = 0.2" tap drill

Now, if the idiots hadn't numbered (or lettered) the drill sizes, you'd be ready to go. No, nothing simple like that. Unless you've memorized the whole farked up drill series, you'll need a table to determine that a #7 drill is 0.201".

With metric designations, everything is straightforward, e.g., 6 x 1 mm tap...

6 -1 = 5 mm

and when you go to the drill index, the drills are labeled 1,2,3,4,5 mm.

 

[Loose nut]

I can't seem to puzzle out whether you're so anti-metric because it wasn't thought up by Canadians/English or because you feel there's something fundamentally wrong with it.


John's correct. Any change aimed at international standardization is going to have to be forced on people who are only comfortable with their quaint antique tradesmen's measures.

Well it wasn't thought up in the US either and most Americans don't want anything to do with it either, your the exception Marv not the rule.

John's point hits the nail on the head, IT WAS FORCED ON US, the "us" being all the none metric countries about 30 years ago, most of the people in these countries didn't ask for it or want it, so why did we have to be forced into it. "International standardization", that is not a good enough reason for the lose of our right of free choice. The people that have to deal on the global market could have taken care of it and the rest of us should have been left alone to use what ever system we liked. Don't be under the illusion that Americans would like to pump gas in liter's or drive in kilometer's/hour anymore then I do, I think we both know that wouldn't go down very well.

The English language is the most screwed up conglomeration of words and phrases from all the other language in the world, full of quaint antique words, it is a constant state of flux and the rules of grammar and spelling don't apply from one word to the next because all of the different language's have to be accommodated.

Using your logic we should throw it out and adopt French or Latin because the are more stable. Maybe we should create a new "international" language that can be forced on the whole world, isn't that a good idea in the name of international standardization. How would that go over in the US or any other country.

Luckily by the time the metric system finally takes over in the work place here I will be long retired, and for as long as I am still able to work in my own shop I will have no trouble sourcing Imperial tools and material. The rest of the world can do what ever they want, but my little corner of this planet will always be Imperial.

 

[Seanie]

I personally grew up with the Imperial system, & first heard about Metric in high school.

More than 30 years later, I still work in both & truly understand neither!

All the arguments I've ever heard on the subject can be summed up in one line- 'People don't like change'

My vote is for Metric- sure it has weak points, but imagine how much more advanced the world could be if we all stopped fighting over such things & worked together.

 

[Divided He ad]

I am well and truly lost in most of the discusion here...I struggle with the simplest of maths (ask Marv, he has already given me some lessons!) I just thought this a good place for this to be displayed... It is obviously not just the man in the street who is confusing the issue....

If you can't read it ... 9'6" high, 2.5m wide !! :big:

Was behind this last week, just thought it funny after reading a lot of this post



Ralph.

 

[Bogstandard]

Ralph,

That isn't the only confusing thing, because I live fairly near to the Welsh border, a lot of our roadside signs are like that.

John

 

[Divided He ad]

:big: Tell me about it!! Try living near "Yr Wyddgrug" !! (translated "Mold" !!! ???) I moved up here from the Coventry 20 years ago... Got thrown out of my first ever Welsh lesson because I didn't know the Welsh alphabet!! ??? It all went down hill from there! ;D
(I can say Quite a few place names now but probably not as well as the nationals would like! )

Ralph.

 

[mklotz]

Anyone who can spell Welsh should find mastering the intricacies of the metric system a piece of cake.

[Aside for the colonials: As an example,

Llanfairpwllgwyngychgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch

is a legitimate place name in Welsh.]

Do they have spelling bees (competitions) in Wales? If so, do they ever finish?

 

[Divided He ad]

No spelling bees as far as I know... But quite humorously I drove through Llanfair PG (as it is shortened to! ) last week and had to laugh at the Volvo dealership that had 90% of the sign dedicated to the area name and 10 to the Volvo part :big:

Disclaimer... This is an approximation... please do not count all the letters and do the maths to find accurate percentages... I will not be impressed with your efforts. It will not be big or clever! :big: