Material problem

[Steamingandy]

Has anyone come across this it looks like a stain and won’t machine or polish out it’s cast iron Meehanite bar I can’t really take much more material off wondering if it’s going to have to be binned

 

[Jasonb]

I've had it a few times and often you can hear the sound of the tool change when facing across a piece of bar.

 

[Steamingandy]

So I have turned the other end and the pattern is mirrored exactly 2” down the bar?it must be a production issue otherwise it would be random

 

[Richard Hed]

So I have turned the other end and the pattern is mirrored exactly 2” down the bar?it must be a production issue otherwise it would be random View attachment 131955

Do you know WHERE this was manufactured and HOW it was manufactured. That might give us a clue.

 

[Ken I]

It's probably spun-cast - was done with the melt at too low a temperature - the "pour" proceed unevenly but in regular gulps and produced a helical pattern in the bar which also looks to be temperature shocked and possibly even improperly fused.
This process can also produce long epitaxially grained and corkscrewed core grain structure which is near impossible to drill straight.
I wouldn't use that material for anything important.
Normalising heat treatment might fix it - but I would still be suspicious of it's structural integrity.
Regards, Ken

 

[Steamingandy]

That’s interesting I also drilled a 9.3mm hole before I turned it round and it did wander even though I had given it a hefty centre drill, it’s for a flywheel so will not need to be structurally stressed

It's probably spun-cast - was done with the melt at too low a temperature - the "pour" proceed unevenly but in regular gulps and produced a helical pattern in the bar which also looks to be temperature shocked and possibly even improperly fused.
This process can also produce long epitaxially grained and corkscrewed core grain structure which is near impossible to drill straight.
I wouldn't use that material for anything important.
Normalising heat treatment might fix it - but I would still be suspicious of it's structural integrity.
Regards, Ken

 

[Steamchick]

You may find you need to make a larger hole than planned, use an interference fit to plug the hole with Mild Steel, then drill a "true" hole for mounting in the mild steel.
I have some "sash weight" iron, that used all sorts of iron product scrap melt as it was only for its Mass.... But Sash weights that used scrap battleship armour, have horribly hard lumps at random! Red-Hot and oven cooled does not anneal the lumps, as the carbon content is much lower than the surrounding cast iron... But using Masonary drills I have been able to use it for some odd jobs. Even an odd solid flywheel (with mild steel inserted centre for accurate centre hole drilling!). You can see the change of sparks when using a cut-off grinder or grinding disc.
I like the explanation from Ken 1!
It explains a few things I didn't know!
K2

 

[Majormallock]

I agree with Ken, problem during casting, end or start of pour, also might well be some extraneous material in the scrap pile. High carbon, even known bit of stainless to find its way in, though that's pretty obvious

 

[grahamgollar]

Could be the Widmanstatten effect caused by cooling at too fast a rate after pouring. This effect was also occasionally the result of the use of scrap car engines as part of the pour when these engines had been run on long periods on fully leaded fuels hence creating striations of lead.

 

[L98fiero]

It's probably spun-cast - was done with the melt at too low a temperature - the "pour" proceed unevenly but in regular gulps and produced a helical pattern in the bar which also looks to be temperature shocked and possibly even improperly fused.
This process can also produce long epitaxially grained and corkscrewed core grain structure which is near impossible to drill straight.
I wouldn't use that material for anything important.
Normalising heat treatment might fix it - but I would still be suspicious of it's structural integrity.
Regards, Ken

More likely continuous cast, that's how Dura-Bar does it and the striations on the unmachined part suggest that's how it was cast. The continuous casting process | TassoBar As for the integrity of the bar, I agree with Ken.

 

[Richard Hed]

Me thimpfks that if it had been stray bits of odd material (e.g. stainless, leaded, etc.) it should have been mixt better in the melt and therefore the material would have been evenly displaced. otherwords, it would be completely uniform. Which leadz me to believe it was something in the founding process. I was thimpfking that most likely it had something to do with the cooling, and K1's process sounds extremely likely particularly when the piece, when reversed, was found to have another striation on the other end. I doesn't thimpfk continuous casting would be like that.

 

[Steamingandy]

Thanks everyone for your replies and Ken I think you nailed it. I will call the supplier on Monday

 

[abby]

Meehanite is a trademark for an engineering process to make a range of cast irons produced under specific and carefully controlled conditions to precise internationally recognized specifications. According to the Meehanite Worldwide company, when correctly followed the Meehanite process will produce cast iron with uniform soundness, consistent physical and mechanical properties and dependable performance in service.[1]

When a foundry advertises that it produces "Meehanite" it means that the foundry is licensed by Meehanite Metal Corporation to produce the family of Meehanite irons. The licensing agreement means, according to Meehanite, not only that the foundry is qualified but also that the licensed foundry is certified by audit to meet the required process standards.
The above quotation from wikipedia.
This suggests that your cast iron bar is possibly not meehanite after all ! any of the suggested possible reasons for the fault would be in breach of the license.
Dan.

 

[William May]

Probably rejected from a production lot, sold off as scrap, and you wound up with it. If you can, return it. If it WAS scrap material, then just get rid of it. It will be causing you problems every time you use it for the next 30 years.

 

[Richard Hed]

Probably rejected from a production lot, sold off as scrap, and you wound up with it. If you can, return it. If it WAS scrap material, then just get rid of it. It will be causing you problems every time you use it for the next 30 years.

How about if you cut it into 5/8" slices? each slice would be uniform, at least till you reach that unstable region. I could use it to cut into 5/8" squares as I need to make some 1/2" rounds about 3" long. Would sections of it be OK?

 

[Ken I]

I think you will find that defect is a continuous corkscrew and no slice will be free of it.
Steelworks typically re-melt all scrap - they buy scrap - they don't sell it - but that doesn't stop them producing rubbish.
I don't believe it is continuous cast - those longitudinal striations are from ejecting it form the spin casting mould. Continuous casting is drawn out by rollers, typically drawn out round, then rolled square and reduced in size as a square bar down to required cross section, then formed up into a rhombus and made round only on the final mill-stand. This would look like any typical "black-bar".
Regards, Ken

 

[Richard Hed]

I think you will find that defect is a continuous corkscrew and no slice will be free of it.
Steelworks typically re-melt all scrap - they buy scrap - they don't sell it - but that doesn't stop them producing rubbish.
I don't believe it is continuous cast - those longitudinal striations are from ejecting it form the spin casting mould. Continuous casting is drawn out by rollers, typically drawn out round, then rolled square and reduced in size as a square bar down to required cross section, then formed up into a rhombus and made round only on the final mill-stand. This would look like any typical "black-bar".
Regards, Ken

Can you tell me how a spin cast mould works?

 

[William May]

I once needed some stainless steel large diameter tubing. (Like 4" OD.)
I finally found some at a local scrap yard, and I think I paid $10 for it. This was back in the 1980's. That stuff was an absolute ******* to turn or machine. I eventually gave up, and it is still resting against the wall next to my garage door, in the small space between a workbench and the wall, in case I ever need such a tough material. My assumption now is that it was part of the material scrapped out of the construction of the Palo Verde Nuclear Plant, which is west of Phoenix. Arizona. There was no other exotic material type project that I can think of where they would have used such a material in Arizona. And it would not have paid to truck it as scrap from anywhere like Los Angeles or New Mexico all the way to Tucson. So there it still sits, over 40 years since I first bought it, and never of any use to me. That totally cured me of buying unknown materials of ANY kind. Anything unknown is a good candidate for problems. I have enough of those just doing machining, I don't need any more from the material I am trying to use.
Further confirmation of this good policy was my acceptance of what I was told was Kirksite, a material that is a low melting allow, that you can form in a plaster mold, and then stretch sheet metal over it. It turned out to be just aluminum slugs. I have no idea where the original owner thought it was actually Kirksite. Fortunately, it was free, but it still reminded me not to bother with ANY unknown material.
Buy what you need, and machine happily. Or only accept stuff if you KNOW what it is, such as cast iron, brass, etc.

 

[Richard Hed]

I once needed some stainless steel large diameter tubing. (Like 4" OD.)
I finally found some at a local scrap yard, and I think I paid $10 for it. This was back in the 1980's. That stuff was an absolute ******* to turn or machine. I eventually gave up, and it is still resting against the wall next to my garage door, in the small space between a workbench and the wall, in case I ever need such a tough material. My assumption now is that it was part of the material scrapped out of the construction of the Palo Verde Nuclear Plant, which is west of Phoenix. Arizona. There was no other exotic material type project that I can think of where they would have used such a material in Arizona. And it would not have paid to truck it as scrap from anywhere like Los Angeles or New Mexico all the way to Tucson. So there it still sits, over 40 years since I first bought it, and never of any use to me. That totally cured me of buying unknown materials of ANY kind. Anything unknown is a good candidate for problems. I have enough of those just doing machining, I don't need any more from the material I am trying to use.
Further confirmation of this good policy was my acceptance of what I was told was Kirksite, a material that is a low melting allow, that you can form in a plaster mold, and then stretch sheet metal over it. It turned out to be just aluminum slugs. I have no idea where the original owner thought it was actually Kirksite. Fortunately, it was free, but it still reminded me not to bother with ANY unknown material.
Buy what you need, and machine happily. Or only accept stuff if you KNOW what it is, such as cast iron, brass, etc.

Altho' I have had similar experiences, I have also been able to get very low priced scrap material that has been easy to work with and did what I wanted it to do. For the low price, IMNSHO, it is worth the few times I get material that cannot be workt in comparison to the good stuff I can get. I live in a small town that has a lot of manufacturing in it and I get scrap prices from some of their rejects. I have a VERY good idea what the metal is because of that./ I don't live near a nuclear plant either. I have seen 2" X 4' X 10' pieces of scrap stacked 20 pieces high. Quite frankly it was unbelievable to see this, but I saw it with my own eyes. Naturally just one of those pieces would most likely crush my pickup truck so I didn't get one. Also, even at scrap prices, I probably could not afford it. However, there were pieces of scrap that had been laser cut outs and the guys were cutting them into smaller pieces. I bought some of those--they were only 1-1/2" thick. Ive been using them for a couple months now. They are high quality mild steel, easily cut on the lathe and mill. I'm using them to make the tools to make the tools to make parts with. A couple of those tools are plates that fit the nose of the lathe for ER collets.

I have ER-16; 25; 32; 40 and 50 to make. So far have managed only one which was poorly done because of a lack of a mill. I am getting that set up but will be a while till it's ready. Another project is a radius turner. I did, however, buy known metal of 3/4" drill rod to make the pins for the backing plates. I didn't want some unknown metal for that. I thimpfks that a blend of known and unknown metals works fine for me, and occasionally have to get rid of some piece of unworkable unknown material. I also buy a lot of quality material from Alcobra in Spokane.

I also get some free stuff from a machine shop in town. He does mostly farm related stuff which uses specialty metals and a lot of stainless. The specialty metals are generally very strong and tough steel but easily machined. The stainless? Godz, Thor and Wotan--you know what THAT is like but it is relatively easy to machine. and I get so much that if I mess it up I can just cut another piece and start over having learnt my lesson on whatever mistake is made (I hope).

 

[William May]

You are lucky that works out OK for you.
Not materials, but cutting tools are what I buy surplus. We have a Raytheon Missile Plant in Tucson, and when they finish a contract run of a certain class of missile, the liquidate EVERYTHING connected to that program. The next program, which might start the following Monday morning, gets all new cutting tools, special jigs, etc, etc, etc. There are places in Tucson that pick up all these cutting tool bits, drills, etc, and sell them very cheap. I have drawers full of special inserts, reamers that are odd sizes,
and special drills and counterbores that were made for missile production, and have been sold for scrap, still sealed in their original containers. So that works out more favorably for me than buying unknown materials.