Manual or DRO

[Davewild]

Hi all

I have been lurking around here for a while now and took the plunge today,
First let me say I am amazed at some of the work you guys produce, I currently do not have any machines, a bit of background I work offshore, 3 month trips never in the same location, any way after doing some research of Unimat, Taig and Sherline I have decided to buy a Sherline lathe and mill, I will carry it offshore with me and learn to use it while I am away, we have a lot of down time and sometimes I have nothing to do for weeks, so this will keep me busy, I would like to ask should I go for the manual or digital readout? Advantages etc? I wanted to start a new post to ask these question but could not find the new post link!!!!

Thanks

Dave

 

[lohring]

I couldn't live without the DRO on my larger mill., It makes hole pattern drilling, feature machining and even moderate precision operations easy. I needed to machine two angle brackets yesterday with holes and slots that matched existing brackets. Just laying out the pattern would have been close enough, but the DRO allowed the copies to be machined within a few thousandths of the original in the same time or less.

Lohring Miller

 

[BillyHill]

I'm also a huge fan of DRO's but if you really want to "learn" to use these tools you should go with dials or at least not use the DRO until you've learned to work from dials. It's kind of antiquated (like using a vernier caliper, which I do) but it's good knowledge that will serve you more than you know.

 

[schilpr]

Agree with Billy, good skill to have to be able to work without them.

I learned on non-DRO machines and non-digital calipers, and it's a good skill to have. Just bought my first mill with DRO and I'm looking forward to working with it, I think it will speed my work up, but I don't think there is anything I can do with DRO that I can't do without.

by the way, I prefer vernier calipers as well, it's great that many people are selling them cheap, I've been able to build up a very nice collection of quality measuring tools cheap.

 

[4156df]

Dave,
For the Sherline, my suggestion would be to buy the DRO for the mill and stick with dials for the lathe. That gives you the opportunity to learn to use dials without the frustration of losing count as you traverse the longer distances on the mill. I would also suggest the "Zero Set" dials for the lathe.

You should also be aware that the Sherline DRO senses the dial position rather than the table position. As a beginner this isn't necessarily a bad thing because it teaches you to be aware of backlash. Something that's very important to learn. DAMHIKT

The Sherline should be a good choice for what you plan to do. Don't know how often you move, but there are some nifty cases and tables for the Sherline if you do a Google search.

Dennis

 

[kuhncw]

I agree with Dennis. Definitely go with DROs on the mill, due to the long distances you will be moving the table. Get the zero set dials on the lathe, but if budget allows, DROs on the lathe is a plus and I doubt you will miss not having manual dials.

Regards,

Chuck

 

[lohring]

I agree with dials on the lathe. I installed scales on my South Bend lathe. The carriage travel scale has been very useful but the cross slide scale has not. If the length of a cut is critical, a dial indicator on the carriage will often be fine. I too learned with dials on a mill. I would never go back.

Lohring Miller

 

[Davewild]

Thanks everyone, I will go with Dro on the lathe, I will have to look at the mill again, the one I was going to buy does not come with a motor or DRO and you take the motor from the lathe, I wanted to buy like this to save on weight as I will be carrying it with me each time I go to work, going to buy from Ebay, maybe I will talk to the seller and see what he can work out, I want to buy the best I can first time, from my research the Sherline seems like the best choice? It has so many accessories, my offshore work bag is going to get very heavy, thanks again.

Dave

 

[Mainer]

You don't need DROs. After all, we won WWII without 'em. But...they can certainly be convenient. As others have said, a big help on a milling machine. On a lathe, not so much. Unless the cross slide DRO is accurate to at least 0.0002" IMO it won't be much help because of the radius/diameter issue. An error of 0.0002" on the radius measurement (what the DRO is giving you) means a 0.0004" error on the diameter. If you're doing a piston and its mating bore, and the piston DRO reading happens to be -0.0004" error and the bore reading happens to be +0.0004" error, you could conceivably get a combined error of nearly a thou...and this with a 0.0002" resolution DRO scale.

From what has been said, I gather that the Sherline DROs are basically just an electronic display of the dial readings. They aren't "real" DROs that independently read position using linear scales. While they may still be useful, they will not increase precision or eliminate the need to manually compensate for backlash (i.e. always approach all positions from the same direction) and that's a good skill to develop.

 

[mwilkes]

Don't need DROs on a lathe, but I've just put some on my Taig and it's a lovely lovely thing - being able to measure along the lathe bed is especially useful.

 

[Sshire]

I guess if you "grew up" with dials that would be your choice. As a relatively new chip maker, I wouldn't be without DROs.
I first put a DRO on the mill. The accuracy, repeatability and built in functions (Bolt Hole Circle, center find and multi-position memory,etc) are excellent.
At first, I didn't see a need for a DRO on the lathe. Why did I add one? The problem is that my Grizzly G0602, as do most Chinese mills, has dials that are supposed to be .001 per mark. Almost. The lead screws are metric. Tiny error per mark between imperial and metric but boy does it add up.
My procedure was turn, measure, turn, measure, etc.
The DRO has a .00005 resolution scale on the cross slide. So with the DRO set to display in diameter mode, my displayed resolution is .0001.
My procedure now is make one pass. Measure the diameter. Set that diameter on the DRO and then turn until the DRO sez I'm at the desired diameter. Bang on every time.*
I started with a Sherline mill (with DRO) and learned a lot with it until I got a bigger mill. It is very, very nicely made. Once you calculate how much backlash you have, you enter that as a compensation factor into the
DRO and it's pretty much a non-issue.
My 2 cents.

 

[Bastelmike]

I first put a DRO on the mill. The accuracy, repeatability and built in functions (Bolt Hole Circle, center find and multi-position memory,etc) are excellent.
At first, I didn't see a need for a DRO on the lathe. Why did I add one? The problem is that my Grizzly G0602, as do most Chinese mills, has dials that are supposed to be .001 per mark. Almost. The lead screws are metric. Tiny error per mark between imperial and metric but boy does it add up.

IMO, the usefulness of DROs on lathes and mills is different.

I do not see a necessity for a DRO at my lathe. For turning exact diameters, many cheaper DROs are hardly precise enough. They may have some value for measuring the length movement. But longitudinal dimensions on typical workpieces for lathe work don't have small tolerances.
I don't have a DRO on my lathe and no plans to install one.

The problem with metric screws in the imperial world is a different situation, but as I'm living happily in the metric world, thats not an issue for me.

The situation on mills is different. DROs have high value for positioning for drilling/boring, finding the center of a workpiece...
I own a bridgeport copy with DRO now and find it very nice to have it. Since I have this bridgeport with DRO, I miss a DRO a lot on my other horizontal mill. I have noticed that I now do operations on the bridgeport which I have done on the horizontal Biernatzki before, just because of the DRO.
Of course I could install one on the Biernatzki mill, but a good 3 axis DRO is a significant investment with X travel over 1000mm. With that old mill and the possibility of trading it against a newer mill eventually, I avoid this expense:hDe:
But I miss it regularly when I start working on the horizontal mill

My advice, buy the mill with a DRO; and go for a DRO that gives exact positions - without backlash.

Mike

 

[Tin Falcon]

Call me old fashioned but I do not own DROs.


In USAF trade school none of the machines had DROs some of the instructors would have liked them on the mills.
the biggest down side I see is cost. advantages are many especially the newer ones that can calculate a bolt circle pattern.
I though about dros for the mill but did the cnc thing instead. in hind sight may have gotten more machining done in the last few years with the dro.

I agree with others a DRO is more useful on the mill but not bad to have on the lathe.


Please please post pic of your portable workshop when you get it together.
Tin

 

[Mike N]

I agree with dials on the lathe. I installed scales on my South Bend lathe. The carriage travel scale has been very useful but the cross slide scale has not. If the length of a cut is critical, a dial indicator on the carriage will often be fine. I too learned with dials on a mill. I would never go back.

Lohring Miller

Do you get a stiff neck looking up at the readouts? I have a set like these to install on my little lathe this weekend.

 

[Sshire]

Ideally, I'd like an Optivisor with a DRO heads up display.

 

[Davewild]

Hi all,
Again thank you all for your input, OK so I have decided to buy the lathe with DRO and the mill attachment, I am not buying the mill as a separate item because it weighs to much to carry to work with me, below is a lists of what I am going to purchase as a start, I may buy a sherline mill as well for use at home, could you help me again by looking at the extra,s/ tooling I will buy and let me know if I have missed something I cannot do without.

Dave

Item to Purchase Qty. Price after Options Ext. Price Remove
4400C-DRO/4410C-DRO - 3.5" x 17" Lathe Package with DRO
Item#: 4410C-DRO
Options: 4410C-DRO (metric): $1,515.00 $1,515.00 $1,515.00
1185-DRO/1184-DRO - Vertical Milling Table w/ DRO handwheel
Item#: 1184-DRO
Options: 1184-DRO (Metric) $150.00 $150.00
3050-DRO/3053-DRO - Vertical Milling Column w/DRO
Item#: 3053-DRO
Options: Vertical milling column DRO-3053-DRO(Vert. Mill Column, metric) $181.00 $181.00
Subtotal: $1,846.00
YOU SAVE $75.00 over the price of these items purchased individually.

The 4400C/4410C deluxe longbed lathe can be ordered with a selection popular accessories. Included are a 3-jaw and drill chuck plus a selection of the most often asked for accessories to outfit your shop.

This package includes a DRO and the "A", "B", and "C" accessory packages.

The "A" accessories include:

3.1" 3-jaw Chuck
3/8" Tailstock Chuck
The "B" accessories include:

1074 Steady rest
1191 Live Center
3002 Cutoff Tool and Holder
3007 3-pc 1/4" HSS Cutting Tool Set (LH, RH, Boring)
3020 5/32" T-driver
3021 3-pc Center Drill Set
5327 Sherline Accessories Shop Guide Book
The "C" accessories include:

1270 (1280 metric) Compound Slide
3100 Thread Cutting Attachment
Available in your choice of inch or metric handwheel graduations.

 

[lohring]

Do you get a stiff neck looking up at the readouts? I have a set like these to install on my little lathe this weekend.

The readouts are about at eye level. They're lower than the one on my mill's DRO. You could mount them on the headstock, but the cabinet was very handy.

Lohring Miller

 

[Davewild]

Hi all

Well it's been a while, I eventually bought the Sherline lathe with the milling attachment without DRO, I am offshore nor with the lathe and have built my first engine, I was really pleased withThe the result for my first engine until I tried to get it to run, it will not do anything!!! No matter what I do, I have tried everything and nothing, I built it as best I could, it is a version of Jan Ridders design with some changes because I had to use whatever I could find onboard to build it with, any clue what I am doing wrong? Hopefully there is an attachment of the engine with this message, Internet is very poor onboard and not sure that it has up loaded.


Dave

 

[Davewild]

Here's a view of the rear,

 

[kvom]

Flame lickers can be hard to get running as they produce very little power, and you need to have very little friction as a result. On mine I needed to hone the cylinder bore and then lubricate it with graphite powder. The engine can be finicky about the position of the flame too.