Making a model Cannon

[KellisRJ]

For anyone else interested (mr Ken and/or any others) - - - -

https://archive.org/details/PopularMechanics1969/Popular Mechanics-02-1969/
there's your link to the issue and attached you will find a pdf of the pages in question.

(Not my work - - - am simply downloading the file from its public repository and then selecting the relevant pages.
Interesting - - - it would seem that the authors of both plans used the same ship and with a difference of the 24# and the 32# but very similar drawings - - - grin!)

Very nice! I have a miserable time creating files from the Google archives. What application did you use to capture these?

Ron

 

[ajoeiam]

Very nice! I have a miserable time creating files from the Google archives. What application did you use to capture these?

Ron

Well - - - I'm one of those weird ducks that runs a Linux variant (Devuan at this point).
So I downloaded the file in question as a pdf.
Then I opened the file in Okular (my pdf reader (it may do more but that's my primary use) of choice) to find the relevant pages.
Then I did a print - - - to pdf function of the relevant pages.

TL;DR
(I tried to just save the pages but that didn't want to work.
One browser that I use gives the option of saving web pages directly as pdfs so that is my primary 'reading' browser.
My primary 'use' browser (Firefox) I need to use the print to pdf to save the information from web pages.
That works but its more steps (more time) which is why its not my primary 'reading' (usually also means saving) browser. )

HTH

 

[WisJim]

Any idea of the 'book'?

TIA

I've thought about that a lot after it was too late to ask my dad, but I think it may have been Diderot's Encyclopedia. It was a very old volume and not in English, if my memory is right.

 

[KellisRJ]

Well - - - I'm one of those weird ducks that runs a Linux variant (Devuan at this point).
So I downloaded the file in question as a pdf.
Then I opened the file in Okular (my pdf reader (it may do more but that's my primary use) of choice) to find the relevant pages.
Then I did a print - - - to pdf function of the relevant pages.

TL;DR
(I tried to just save the pages but that didn't want to work.
One browser that I use gives the option of saving web pages directly as pdfs so that is my primary 'reading' browser.
My primary 'use' browser (Firefox) I need to use the print to pdf to save the information from web pages.
That works but its more steps (more time) which is why its not my primary 'reading' (usually also means saving) browser. )

HTH

Thanks! I run Linux on laptops as they age out of Microcrap, but just haven't been able to completely wean myself off it. I'll go give your process a try. I've been hung up on screen captures and sizing the screen is tough.

Ron

 

[delalio]

If you want drawing/plans for relatively simple but attractive models of some examples you could look for:

Scale Model Cannon by Stewart & Heyes

ISBN 0-7195-3888-2

Not a large book, some 60 or so pages.

Published London, John Murray, 1982.

I doubt if you can buy one but maybe a Library can locate a copy.

Dave

Surprisingly one on UK Amazon ...

Scale Model Cannon: History, Design, Construction: Amazon.co.uk: Stewart, Richard, Heyes, Donald: 9780719538889: Books

Yeah, I know ... fat lot of good there etc etc

Ive been following this thread for a little while and actually managed to pick up a copy of this book you guys recommended. It was only £5.

I'll let you know how i get on...
Il be starting with something easy!

 

[ajoeiam]

I've thought about that a lot after it was too late to ask my dad, but I think it may have been Diderot's Encyclopedia. It was a very old volume and not in English, if my memory is right.

Now to see if there are any articles on 'cannons' in such.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Lloyd-ss]

If all of you act on these leftover childhood fantasies, we are in for a scary bunch of trouble/fun, LOL.

Regarding the legality of cannon replicas, it seems that having an ignition hole in the breech is a serious no-no. But maybe that isn't a limitation at all. I have "seen" 4th of July fireworks that are called mortars that are fired vertically from a heavy 1-1/2" diameter cardboard tube that is about 12" tall. The mortar rounds are "round" with an easy slip fit into the tube. On the bottom end of the round is a tiny cylinder filled with black powder(?), and a 16" long fuse. The round is loaded into the muzzle of the tube, black powder cylinder going in first, with the long fuse going all the way up the inside of the tube, and hanging out of the muzzle. Lit with a match, plenty of time to retreatwith the 16" fuse, and a big whooompp sending the round high into the sky. Or, so I have heard, LOL.
But the important thing is no touch-hole in the breech, if it matters.

Where I live there are lots of Civil and Revolutionary war reenactments that involve actual cannon fire with cannon balls. And it is done by regular folks. Maybe try and locate one of the reenactment units for the adrenaline rush. If you bring about 30 pounds of lead, you might be able to bribe your way in, ha ha. They always need more lead.

 

[ajoeiam]

Now to see if there are any articles on 'cannons' in such.

Thanks for the info.

Hmmmmm - - - downloaded quite a number of books - - - most of Diderot's encyclopiedia and found that he had another work - - multi-volume as well that covered quite a number of interesting things - - - optics and cannon casting (with their sizing) for some.
The work (sorry don't know how to get all the accents etc!) Recueil de Planches sur Les Sciences, Les Arts Liberaux, et Les Arts Mechanicques Avec Leur Explication ( Collection of Plates in the Sciences, the Liberal Arts, and the Mechnical Arts with their Explanations) .

So - - - I'm attaching some 2 pdfs which include north of 70 pages of information including sizings and some drawings.
All the information is as scanned by some group with the document available at archive.org .

Possibly mr WisJim could take a lookee see and indicate if I was able to find the source that he mentioned - - - that would be wonderful.

What is interesting is that there is in Diderot's information no mention of the 32# and 64#. I cannot remember if the 64# was only as a carronade or also as a naval long gun. There is also some mention of a (IIRC) 9# long gun if not some others in other literature on the 17th 18th and early 19th century naval ships.

Oops - - - even the small file (some 25 MB) is considered too large to attach it here.
Any suggestions as to how I could get this information here?
(I have not ever played with any of the cloud services and am somewhat loath to start.
Perhaps someone else on here has a way of breaking things up - - - I could try compressing the files - - - but I run linux and that might make things difficult for many on here to open.
Please advise!)

 

[ajoeiam]

Hmmmmm - - - downloaded quite a number of books - - - most of Diderot's encyclopiedia and found that he had another work - - multi-volume as well that covered quite a number of interesting things - - - optics and cannon casting (with their sizing) for some.
The work (sorry don't know how to get all the accents etc!) Recueil de Planches sur Les Sciences, Les Arts Liberaux, et Les Arts Mechanicques Avec Leur Explication ( Collection of Plates in the Sciences, the Liberal Arts, and the Mechnical Arts with their Explanations) .

So - - - I'm attaching some 2 pdfs which include north of 70 pages of information including sizings and some drawings.
All the information is as scanned by some group with the document available at archive.org .

Possibly mr WisJim could take a lookee see and indicate if I was able to find the source that he mentioned - - - that would be wonderful.

What is interesting is that there is in Diderot's information no mention of the 32# and 64#. I cannot remember if the 64# was only as a carronade or also as a naval long gun. There is also some mention of a (IIRC) 9# long gun if not some others in other literature on the 17th 18th and early 19th century naval ships.

snip

Rund the next

not working one more time
I guess I will have to wait for ideas from anyone interested in the files!

 

[Lloyd-ss]

Rund the next

not working one more time
I guess I will have to wait for ideas from anyone interested in the files!

Joe, does the "Download" forum allow big files?

 

[ajoeiam]

Tried using 'media' files - - - but that means pictures and these are pdfs. They're not small as they are scannings of line drawings and text.
Went looking to find some way on here but I can't even find where any of the limits are listed.
I have the pdfs - - - broke the files into smaller bits even at max 11 pages they run up to over 20 MB (there are some 8 files in all) - - - imo those aren't big files but I just don't know how to get them accessible to others on here.

 

[stanstocker]

IN THE US, OTHER COUNTRIES VARY: Typically black powder cannon that are muzzle loaded are not considered destructive devices. The things that get you a bit of freedom is having it be a "replica", and not being capable of firing fixed ammunition.

The bigger issue is the possession of black powder. When I was re-enacting we had two 6 pound full sized Napoleon field guns. If we were not doing historical and educational stuff, a federal explosives permit for low power explosives would have been required for amounts over one pound. Firing 10 ounces per shot when firing "blanks" we obviously used a lot more. The law allowed up to 50 pounds of powder per person, but limited common storage to 50 pounds in a single location. The place to get real answers is the ATF web site or the web sites of re-enactor cannon and artillery suppliers.

You can be legal with the feds and still get tripped up by state laws. It's sort of a mess.

While of no use for reenactments where the smoke and fire are part of the show, muzzle loading powder like pyrodex can be used provided the cannon is fabricated to accommodate the different burn characteristics of the alternate powder. I never used pyrodex, so have no feel for the material.

If you do pursue a cannon, be sure to use the correct grain size of powder for the bore size. 10 ounces of triple F down a 4 inch bore could readily blow the gun apart, while coarse F powder will just fizzle in a 1/2 inch bore. Learn from re-enacting sites how to safely load, fire, swab out, and reload a cannon before playing around, there are a number of ways you can screw up and injure yourself or others in this game.

We typically went through 44 pounds of powder per day in a large event, so had to restock the limber after each days event. By keeping the limber and additional powder in separate locations we remained in compliance with the exemption clause for needing an LEUP from the feds. Our group was mostly federal LE folks and folks in releted lines of work, so we were extra careful to stay squeaky legal as any complications on that front could ruin careers or clearances even if no penalties or verdicts ever occurred.

Cheers,
Stan

 

[packrat]

Lots of good information there stanstocker, I might ad that black powder is not cheap any more, I shoot with some muzzle loading
rifle clubs and black powder is getting harder to find and more expensive...

 

[Lloyd-ss]

.................................................

While of no use for reenactments where the smoke and fire are part of the show, muzzle loading powder.......................................
................................................
Cheers,
Stan

Stan, I knew that someone with reenactment experience would show up.
About 15 years ago I acquired about 150 pounds of lead that had been used as balance weights for a machine that was being scraped. I put it on Craigs list and a fella in Crozet Va jumped right on that lead and was as happy as he could be. He was a reenactor, too, and said that even though they always retrieved their lead, they always needed more. Who knows, you might have met the guy at one of your events. I don't remember the name.
Lloyd

 

[KellisRJ]

Rund the next

not working one more time
I guess I will have to wait for ideas from anyone interested in the files!

Option 1 post a link to the Archive.org item(s) with notes on what you think is valuable.
Option 2 Create a Google account and use their storage. There are settings to only allow people you approve to get access, a link is sent to them from the Gmail account. This can be maintenance/time consuming. Another setting is to allow download only access by anyone who has the link. This is the option used by many on YouTube to make accessable items they are giving away. Advantage is low maintenance. IIRC you have to also check the settings on each item once after it's uploaded.

Ron

 

[ajoeiam]

Option 1 post a link to the Archive.org item(s) with notes on what you think is valuable.
Option 2 Create a Google account and use their storage. There are settings to only allow people you approve to get access, a link is sent to them from the Gmail account. This can be maintenance/time consuming. Another setting is to allow download only access by anyone who has the link. This is the option used by many on YouTube to make accessable items they are giving away. Advantage is low maintenance. IIRC you have to also check the settings on each item once after it's uploaded.

Ron

You're on - - -

Recueil de planches, sur les sciences, les arts libéraux, et les arts méchaniques : avec leur explication .. : Diderot, Denis, 1713-1784 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

what you're looking for are pages 241 to 305 and 311 to 325

The first part starts as "Fonderie des Canons" - - - continues through a few other things all related to cannons.
The second part starts as "Plat XII" (Plate 12)

I would appreciate if mr WisJim might take a lookee see and advise if - - to his recollection anyway, this was the document used to develop the drawings of his quite novel naval cannon.

TIA

 

[KellisRJ]

You're on - - -

Recueil de planches, sur les sciences, les arts libéraux, et les arts méchaniques : avec leur explication .. : Diderot, Denis, 1713-1784 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

what you're looking for are pages 241 to 305 and 311 to 325

The first part starts as "Fonderie des Canons" - - - continues through a few other things all related to cannons.
The second part starts as "Plat XII" (Plate 12)

TIA

The ultimate in KISS (keep it simple stupid) to which I'll add "If it works it isn't stupid." Old US Army maxim.

Ron

 

[WisJim]

Those look like the kind of illustrations that I recall (especially page 272 and similar) but it has been over 60 years ago that my dad borrowed the book.

 

[ajoeiam]

That's close enough for me - - - - thank you for your help in this digging.

It is fascinating - - - the how-tos depicted, re: casting, are quite intriguing!