Linux "Q4OS"

[BaronJ]

Hi Guys,

For the benefit of those reading the old thread, and want to try Linux rather than be subject to Msux foibles there are the links again.

Q4OS - desktop operating system

I use this one,

Q4OS Centaurus, Trinity, live - 64bit / x64 ... 719 MBytes

Download the "Live CD iso image" and burn it to a blank CD. To use it place the CD in your CD drive and tell the computer to boot from the CD. Many machines, including mine, will automatically find and boot from the CD drive.

Loading isn't quick because everything has to be run from the CD but if you have enough memory to load the kernel and the desktop everything will be much quicker.

NOTE: You cannot save anything to an already written CD, but Linux will recognize a USB memory stick and happily write to that.

I will try and assist with questions, but do read the help files, usually the last item on the menu bar.

 

[Richard Hed]

Hi Guys,

For the benefit of those reading the old thread, and want to try Linux rather than be subject to Msux foibles there are the links again.

Q4OS - desktop operating system

I use this one,

Q4OS Centaurus, Trinity, live - 64bit / x64 ... 719 MBytes

Download the "Live CD iso image" and burn it to a blank CD. To use it place the CD in your CD drive and tell the computer to boot from the CD. Many machines, including mine, will automatically find and boot from the CD drive.

Loading isn't quick because everything has to be run from the CD but if you have enough memory to load the kernel and the desktop everything will be much quicker.

NOTE: You cannot save anything to an already written CD, but Linux will recognize a USB memory stick and happily write to that.

I will try and assist with questions, but do read the help files, usually the last item on the menu bar.

I thimpfk I downloaded that one, Centaurus, to try, but I also downloaded Plasma. What is th e difference if you know? I haven't installed any yet. Since I have a relatively small SSD "hard drive", only 1/4 TB, I thimpfk I will install it on a thumbdrive and test the two systems that way. Have you recently used any other OSs? I tested out a Suse OS a couple years ago, it was a new, free one, but I preferred my older 9.2 version. I thimpfk I also bought a BYTE mag a few years ago because it had a bundle of CDs with different versions of LINUX and I wanted to see what they were like. Interesting, but I still preferred my 9..2--probably just because I was used to it and knew how to get around in it. How do you boot up? do you have it installed on your HD or do you use a thumb or CD?

 

[BaronJ]

Hi Richard,

I don't use "Plasma" I've never tried it, I use "Trinity".

You don't have to install anything, just burn the ISO that you download and it all runs from the CD. It installs nothing on your computer unless you tell it to.

I have it Installed on my HDD, but used to run it from the CD and still do occasionally. You cannot get a virus installed to an already written CD !

 

[Richard Hed]

Hi Richard,

I don't use "Plasma" I've never tried it, I use "Trinity".

You don't have to install anything, just burn the ISO that you download and it all runs from the CD. It installs nothing on your computer unless you tell it to.

I have it Installed on my HDD, but used to run it from the CD and still do occasionally. You cannot get a virus installed to an already written CD !

My understanding is tht Linux is almost impossible to get a virus anyway. Is that still true?

 

[aarggh]

My understanding is tht Linux is almost impossible to get a virus anyway. Is that still true?

It's many orders of magnitude more reliable and safer than Windows, but if it isn't patched and ports on a firewall are open it can be just as vulnerable.

However, I'd say a mis-configured firewall would be the far more likely attack scenario. It's staggering how quickly ports start getting scanned on the net once it's online.

One of the many reasons Linux is so good, is that it gives you unlimited access to look under the hood to see everything that's going on, and many great analysis tools to do that with.

 

[BaronJ]

Hi Guys,

In my opinion the web browser is the weakest link !

If you think about it you actively visit a web site and in most cases have to accept cookies that are placed on your machine in order to view the site. Also in Msux you have little control over where those cookies are placed and what data they contain. In many cases cookies get placed on your machine whether you want them or not. I've found in many cases if you refuse a cookie one gets placed on your machine anyway, I imagine telling the web site that you have refused them !

At least in Firefox the cookies stay in one place and can be inspected and deleted as you wish. I have my Firefox set up for "Private Browsing" this means that cookies and site data gets deleted when the browser is closed, reducing greatly the amount of data stored and the associated risks.

 

[Richard Hed]

Hi Guys,

In my opinion the web browser is the weakest link !

If you think about it you actively visit a web site and in most cases have to accept cookies that are placed on your machine in order to view the site. Also in Msux you have little control over where those cookies are placed and what data they contain. In many cases cookies get placed on your machine whether you want them or not. I've found in many cases if you refuse a cookie one get placed on your machine anyway, I imagine telling the web site that you have refused them !

At least in Firefox the cookies stay in one place and can be inspected and deleted as you wish. I have my Firefox set up for "Private Browsing" this means that cookies and site data gets deleted when the browser is closed, reducing greatly the amount of data stored and the associated risks.

Thanx for that. I know cookies do several things. For places that one visits often, information is pre"cookied" in order to not have to down load that information at viewing time. I also know that cookies are used for spying on the customer. I doesn't mind my bank having cookies but gog and magog--I don'tw want their cookies at all--not at all and if their sh*tty site cannot accomodate me without cookies, then I don't want their business or what ever it is they are trying to sell me. Worse yet is gog spies on people, sees what they are looking at, then sells that information to similar sites. It's disgusting. If those sh*tbags are going to sell MY stuff, I want a huge share of that $$$$. Remember a couple decades ago, some skier crashed at the olympics but the news people played it over and over with out his permission as an ad between tv shows? Well they guy sued them and won in court. They could report his crash but they could not use the thing over and over without his permisssion and pay! This, to me, is no different what ever. I don't care what their hidden words in their agreement is, it is a totally one sided agreement which I DO NOT agree to. SO, gog and magog, PAY UP!

 

[Steamchick]

Not sure if I understand some of the logic and numbers above...
In my experience, a CD is only 700mB I.E. = 0.7Gb = 0.0007Tb. I.E. 0.028% of the 1/4 Tb drive? - surely this is "Tiny" in the world of data storage? - and as the Q40S is just over 700Mb at 719 Mb 0- surely it won't fit on a CD that actually only takes about 650Mb for all its stated capacity of 700Mb?
Sorry to sound crazy - but I am (an Engineer that is). I just don't know about data storage stuff.
But I think I understand the logic about using a CD to block any virus... Or maybe I don't?
If the virus is written into the data pack sent and written to the CD, surely when the computer reads that to use it the virus will be enacted on the chip in the computer - which is talking to the internet? And if the CD can't accept anything being re-written onto it, how and where is the data stored, if not on the CD? - As you explain that if you use a USB drive, it will write all the data to that. Surely any "simple" virus will write data to the "C:" drive anyway? - because that's what virus writers seem to do?
But this is all a black art to me anyway...
If I write the Q40S to my main C-drive, will the McAfee and current firewalls work? - I guess they will - but really have no idea!
K2

 

[ajoeiam]

Not sure if I understand some of the logic and numbers above...
In my experience, a CD is only 700mB I.E. = 0.7Gb = 0.0007Tb. I.E. 0.028% of the 1/4 Tb drive? - surely this is "Tiny" in the world of data storage? - and as the Q40S is just over 700Mb at 719 Mb 0- surely it won't fit on a CD that actually only takes about 650Mb for all its stated capacity of 700Mb?
Sorry to sound crazy - but I am (an Engineer that is). I just don't know about data storage stuff.
But I think I understand the logic about using a CD to block any virus... Or maybe I don't?
If the virus is written into the data pack sent and written to the CD, surely when the computer reads that to use it the virus will be enacted on the chip in the computer - which is talking to the internet? And if the CD can't accept anything being re-written onto it, how and where is the data stored, if not on the CD? - As you explain that if you use a USB drive, it will write all the data to that. Surely any "simple" virus will write data to the "C:" drive anyway? - because that's what virus writers seem to do?
But this is all a black art to me anyway...
If I write the Q40S to my main C-drive, will the McAfee and current firewalls work? - I guess they will - but really have no idea!
K2

Not sure about the firewalls but I am positive that McAfee won't work.
As I think about your question I don't think the firewalls will work either but one way to find out would be to kick up your memory stick and then when you're in Q40S take a look at your then firewall settings - - - - then you will know if the firewall settings transfer (I don't think they will). You could let us know after your attempt to remove all doubt for anyone else.

 

[Richard Hed]

Not sure if I understand some of the logic and numbers above...
In my experience, a CD is only 700mB I.E. = 0.7Gb = 0.0007Tb. I.E. 0.028% of the 1/4 Tb drive? - surely this is "Tiny" in the world of data storage? - and as the Q40S is just over 700Mb at 719 Mb 0- surely it won't fit on a CD that actually only takes about 650Mb for all its stated capacity of 700Mb?
Sorry to sound crazy - but I am (an Engineer that is). I just don't know about data storage stuff.
But I think I understand the logic about using a CD to block any virus... Or maybe I don't?
If the virus is written into the data pack sent and written to the CD, surely when the computer reads that to use it the virus will be enacted on the chip in the computer - which is talking to the internet? And if the CD can't accept anything being re-written onto it, how and where is the data stored, if not on the CD? - As you explain that if you use a USB drive, it will write all the data to that. Surely any "simple" virus will write data to the "C:" drive anyway? - because that's what virus writers seem to do?
But this is all a black art to me anyway...
If I write the Q40S to my main C-drive, will the McAfee and current firewalls work? - I guess they will - but really have no idea!
K2

Because the way Linux uses the instruction set is completely different from msux, that means that all the programs on msux will not understand how they are supposed to operate. It's like you know how to drive a car, but you take that car driving ability and try to "drive" an ocean going ship using the exact same "instruction" set as for th ecar. It doesn't work. So altho' McCaffee doesn't work, there are other systems that you don't necessarily buy but are already operating like Mccaffee. either built in firewalls or firewalls that are added in at boot up time. CDs geneerally hold more than that nowadaze. Where have you been?

That's why your programs do not run with Linux. Linux is, howevr, an operating system (OS) and it knows about your other drives, in fact it understands them better than msux and makes better use of them too.

 

[BaronJ]

Not sure if I understand some of the logic and numbers above...
In my experience, a CD is only 700mB I.E. = 0.7Gb = 0.0007Tb. I.E. 0.028% of the 1/4 Tb drive? - surely this is "Tiny" in the world of data storage? - and as the Q40S is just over 700Mb at 719 Mb 0- surely it won't fit on a CD that actually only takes about 650Mb for all its stated capacity of 700Mb?
Sorry to sound crazy - but I am (an Engineer that is). I just don't know about data storage stuff.
But I think I understand the logic about using a CD to block any virus... Or maybe I don't?
If the virus is written into the data pack sent and written to the CD, surely when the computer reads that to use it the virus will be enacted on the chip in the computer - which is talking to the internet? And if the CD can't accept anything being re-written onto it, how and where is the data stored, if not on the CD? - As you explain that if you use a USB drive, it will write all the data to that. Surely any "simple" virus will write data to the "C:" drive anyway? - because that's what virus writers seem to do?
But this is all a black art to me anyway...
If I write the Q40S to my main C-drive, will the McAfee and current firewalls work? - I guess they will - but really have no idea!
K2

Hi Ken Guys,

CD discs always have some spare capacity, and the writer software can use that to fit more on a CD than normal. The ISO image is written to a HDD first as a single file, and the software that transfers that image will not break it up, however if you try to write more than the discs capacity in several smaller files you will run out of CD disc space. The reason is that there is some additional information written to the CD in order to allow the reader software to find the files which may be written in multiple chunks. On a HDD this would be the directory structure that enables individual files to be found and accessed.

You are right of course about mallware that may have been added to an ISO image, which is one of the reasons that a check sum is also published, allowing the downloader to confirm that the data in the ISO image is what the writer of that image intended.

If you are running the image from the bootable CD then the only data that can be temporarily stored is in memory, which will be lost when the computer is turned off.

You have to jump through a few hoops to be able to write to your HDD. It can be done if you know how. However the software on the bootable CD cannot write anything to your HDD even if you want it to ! You have to install the OS in order to utilise the HDD.

Since a virus cannot write anything to the already written CD and the software on the CD cannot write anything to the HDD, it is a non issue.

Last answer is any software that is already installed on your computer will not run under anything other than Msux, even Linux software ! Simply until Linux is installed it has no access to it.

Sorry for the long post !

 

[Steamchick]

Thanks guys, I am beginning to understand a few things..
K2

 

[Richard Hed]

Hi Ken Guys,

CD discs always have some spare capacity, and the writer software can use that to fit more on a CD than normal. The ISO image is written to a HDD first as a single file, and the software that transfers that image will not break it up, however if you try to write more than the discs capacity in several smaller files you will run out of CD disc space. The reason is that there is some additional information written to the CD in order to allow the reader software to find the files which may be written in multiple chunks. On a HDD this would be the directory structure that enables individual files to be found and accessed.

You are right of course about mallware that may have been added to an ISO image, which is one of the reasons that a check sum is also published, allowing the downloader to confirm that the data in the ISO image is what the writer of that image intended.

If you are running the image from the bootable CD then the only data that can be temporarily stored is in memory, which will be lost when the computer is turned off.

You have to jump through a few hoops to be able to write to your HDD. It can be done if you know how. However the software on the bootable CD cannot write anything to your HDD even if you want it to ! You have to install the OS in order to utilise the HDD.

Since a virus cannot write anything to the already written CD and the software on the CD cannot write anything to the HDD, it is a non issue.

Last answer is any software that is already installed on your computer will not run under anything other than Msux, even Linux software ! Simply until Linux is installed it has no access to it.

Sorry for the long post !

If you know how to access the HDDs, you should be able to write to them if you wish. I mean, that's what Linux is all about: choice. Using Suse, I could access all my msux files, but I never used a Debian so am not sure how it works. I'm just pretty sure it works similarly as there used to be a lot of Debian users who worshipped it and probaqbly still do.

 

[Steamchick]

A while back I bought an "Xtra-PC" USB stick - that was for an older Dell... but it didn't work, as the older Dell was simply 1 generation too old (1 month of manufacture too old according to all the specs I saw!). So I tried it on this computer - worked fine - except it is totally isolated from the hard drive so cannot access any of my files - that I use regularly for designing stuff, family tree stuff, mail, all my personal and bank stuff, etc..
Hence I am considering the Q40 Linux method on the hard-drive.
So glad of all your various comments.
Thanks Boys and Girls. (The young-uns know all about this stuff I didn't do ...).
K2

 

[Richard Hed]

A while back I bought an "Xtra-PC" USB stick - that was for an older Dell... but it didn't work, as the older Dell was simply 1 generation too old (1 month of manufacture too old according to all the specs I saw!). So I tried it on this computer - worked fine - except it is totally isolated from the hard drive so cannot access any of my files - that I use regularly for designing stuff, family tree stuff, mail, all my personal and bank stuff, etc..
Hence I am considering the Q40 Linux method on the hard-drive.
So glad of all your various comments.
Thanks Boys and Girls. (The young-uns know all about this stuff I didn't do ...).
K2

Don't forget, in this case, you can have your pie and eat it too. Linux will allow you to boot in either Linux or msux. Yo can also get a "wine", that is, a winsux emulator, or what this means is that msux will run in Linux as an actual program. I've heard that it makes some mistakes especially when running games. I thimpfk it really is just a language translator that translates from msux OS into Linux OS. Don't know the details, however. Naturally, this would make the computer run slower.

 

[BaronJ]

If you know how to access the HDDs, you should be able to write to them if you wish. I mean, that's what Linux is all about: choice. Using Suse, I could access all my msux files, but I never used a Debian so am not sure how it works. I'm just pretty sure it works similarly as there used to be a lot of Debian users who worshipped it and probaqbly still do.

Hi Richard, Guys,

The point that I was trying to get across is that by default the Linux software on the bootable CD does not allow access to your HDD.

Yes Linux will and can access almost any file that you have, but you have to be able to tell Linux how to access the HDD.

Now when you click on the "Install" icon, Linux goes and reads the HDD partition table, from there it looks for space to install into. If it cannot find any you have to start and tell Linux what you want it to do. At this point in time installing is a another story.

Get to use and play with the bootable system running on the CD first ! Linux is easy to use but not everyone can cope with it. For instance, I have single mouse click set, Msux is a double mouse click. Some people can't get used to that, so its double click by default, so as not to put Msux users off !

Debian Linux is just one of many flavors ! Its like icecream, Linux has many flavors.

Another point, "Trinity" is a graphical desktop as is Plasma.

 

[BaronJ]

A while back I bought an "Xtra-PC" USB stick - that was for an older Dell... but it didn't work, as the older Dell was simply 1 generation too old (1 month of manufacture too old according to all the specs I saw!). So I tried it on this computer - worked fine - except it is totally isolated from the hard drive so cannot access any of my files - that I use regularly for designing stuff, family tree stuff, mail, all my personal and bank stuff, etc..
Hence I am considering the Q4OS Linux method on the hard-drive.
So glad of all your various comments.
Thanks Boys and Girls. (The young-uns know all about this stuff I didn't do ...).
K2

Hi Ken, Guys,

I'm a little surprised that your old Dell doesn't recognise the Xtra-PC USB stick. I have a Win XP machine and it doesn't have any problems with USB other than it doesn't always recognise USB2 or 3 devices.

I think that you will find that by default the USB copy of the Linux ISO will not see or touch your HDD. This is done delibratly in order to prevent you damaging the software on it. You would be most upset if you found that your Msux was corrupted.

Thanks for the "Young uns" comment ! I wish

 

[Richard Hed]

Hi Ken, Guys,

I'm a little surprised that your old Dell doesn't recognise the Xtra-PC USB stick. I have a Win XP machine and it doesn't have any problems with USB other than it doesn't always recognise USB2 or 3 devices.

I think that you will find that by default the USB copy of the Linux ISO will not see or touch your HDD. This is done delibratly in order to prevent you damaging the software on it. You would be most upset if you found that your Msux was corrupted.

Thanks for the "Young uns" comment ! I wish

Ha haa haawww, that's a good one: "if you found that your Msux was corrupted". I thimk you mean if you found your msux became UNCORRUPTED! H a haaa. OH oh, excuse me, I meant corrupted in a different meaning. LOL

OK, I was wondering if that was what you meant: that you had to SPECIFICALLY dig into the hard drives and that Linux specifically kept out unless you told it to do so. THat's great. I'd expect it to be that way but at the same time it should not be too difficult to get into the other hard drives. I always laft, (or cried in anger) about msux's misuse of hard drive space. The operating system of Linux is tiny compared to the bloated msux and it's use of space is also tiny compared to msux. When I was using Suse, I had a space for Linux about 1/10th the size of msux--it wasn't necessary to have all that bloat. and if I needed extra space, I just used some msux hard drive space. Easy. However that was quite a while ago now. I wonder if there are more programs available in Linux that I might like to use. I used to like playing the card games on Linux just as a diversion. I played chess too and NEVER won a game--not once! Damn!

 

[Steamchick]

Thanks guys. Always good to hear your banter (is that another odd-named Linux programme?).
Xtra-PC stick needs 64-bit PCs made 2007 or later... but I think it was "July 2007" when I checked and mine was a month to old - whatever. Anyway it would not work at all.
K2

 

[aarggh]

If I write the Q40S to my main C-drive, will the McAfee and current firewalls work? - I guess they will - but really have no idea!
K2

All Linux distros come with pretty much everything you need from a security point of view, IPTABLES is usually the default, and can be auto configured by most distros during the install, or afterwards via editing config files, command line, or GUI tools, in linux there's always a lot of choice to do things. It's not as hard as it may seem to configure a firewall on Linux, it's only when you're configuring more advanced masquerading or stuff like that it gets a bit more complicated, but there's numerous sites with info to help, because all consumer grade OS's are generally open source, so LOT's of support, and good updating, except maybe Centos now unfortunately! ;-(

A lot of the hardware firewall appliances on the market are simply running an embedded or FLASH version of some Linux distro, cut down to just what's needed for the device.

Linux never really took over the desktop like it was anticipated, but it silently took over the enterprise and server arena!