Liney Radial 'Halo'

[Bogstandard]

Ralph,

We all had to start somewhere, so keep asking your questions.
Nothing is too silly, if you don't know, ask.
The members on here love answering questions.

John

 

[1hand]

Bogs;

Would you forsee any problems if a person where to take and double the size of the Halo plans to build, Other than the amount of air required to run it?

Also; what would be involved to modify their plans and start with just a single cyl in stead of 5?
Would this be more confusing to a novice than just building from the original plans of the 5cyl ?

Thanks
Matt

 

[cfellows]

Matt, I am personally aware of a 3 cylinder version of the halo that was built.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFb9YvBqkDo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFb9YvBqkDo[/ame]

I think also, that Liney built a single cylinder version as a prototype of his new valve arrangement.

I have a single cylinder engine that I adapted Liney's valve arrangement to. It has a bore and stroke of 3/4" x 7/8" which is double the Halo's size.

Here is a link to the video:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTtX6SA9fnc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTtX6SA9fnc[/ame]

Chuck

 

[1hand]

Thanks Chuck,

That's what I was needing to hear. I was wondering if the ball arrangement would work on a larger scale. I'm kinda sceptical on my ability to build a proper poppet valve as of yet, let alone 10 proper ones right off the kick. I love the looks of the push rod and exposed rockerarms of these engines. It gives it a real IC look and feel. This ball style valving seams a bit more forgiving or not?

Matt

 

[Metal Butcher]

Very nice Chuck! :bow:

You have all shorts of goodies tucked away that I haven't seen before.

-MB

 

[cfellows]

Thanks Chuck,

That's what I was needing to hear. I was wondering if the ball arrangement would work on a larger scale. I'm kinda sceptical on my ability to build a proper poppet valve as of yet, let alone 10 proper ones right off the kick. I love the looks of the push rod and exposed rockerarms of these engines. It gives it a real IC look and feel. This ball style valving seams a bit more forgiving or not?

Matt

Matt, I can't really say that the ball valve is more forgiving than the poppet valve, but on a compressed air engine, a tight seal isn't at all critical.

IMHO, doubling the size of the Halo is going to make for a pretty large engine that uses a lot of air, meaning an air compressor somewhere close by is going to be running most of the time that the engine is running. I think a 1/2" bore, which is 25% larger, would be a nice size, but again, that's just my opinion and I've no doubt a double size engine would run fine although you might have to clamp it down! ;D

 

[cfellows]

Very nice Chuck! :bow:

You have all shorts of goodies tucked away that I haven't seen before.

-MB

Thanks, MB. That engine was the first proof-of-concept on my slave valve arrangement. Here is a video of the original engine.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmnMIS08vuI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmnMIS08vuI[/ame]

I converted the inlet valve from a poppet valve to the liney valve arrangement but retained the slave valve exhaust. My plan is to some day design and build a 5 cylinder radial which operates as a 4 stroke using the liney inlet valve and the slave exhaust valve design.

Matt, sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread...

Chuck

 

[1hand]

Really, we are hijacking Bogs thread, but I'm sure he is all right with that being its a question/answer posts.

Yeah I agree with amount of cfm it would take to run a beast like that. Realistically it makes more sense to "up" scale an IC engine verse's a steam just for that simple fact. Its easier to buy more gas than it is to buy more air....lol

Thanks for the info,
Matt

 

[Blogwitch]

Matt, and anyone else contemplating building this engine.

I actually started a very warts and all build of this engine over a year ago. But I had to stop when things went pear shaped and both my wifes and my health took a nose dive.

The engine is in fact designed by Lance at Liney Machine to be made by CNC. But with a few jigs and fixtures, the engine can easily be made by manual methods.

I was going to be making a series of six engines, 1 to 5 cylinders, plus another 5 cylinder as well, so maybe I went a bit over the top, because I used production methods to obtain the 20 cylinders I required.

It might help if you read this partial build sequence, which concerns the cylinder itself. To me, the most difficult bit on the build to make.

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1539.0

This post will eventually get picked up again, when we get our lives on track again.

I see Chuck and yourself are in discussion about the head area, and although looking at the plans, it looks complicated, when in fact, once you get your head around it, it is very easy to make. It will work fine doubled up, as when you understand how it works, there is really nothing that can go wrong to stop it working, as long as you get all the holes in the right places and of the correct size you want to build it at.

John

 

[kvom]

Having built the Halo, I think a 2x version would be easier given the larger parts. Leaving the bore at .75 with doubled stroke might be reasonable too.

I had access to a CNC lathe for the nose cone, but it should be doable without. You'd have to source bearings. As Bogs says, the heads are not that complex, just lots of drilling. Larger cylinders would mean that normal grooving tools could make the fins.

 

[1hand]

I can't find any info on the springs. Anyone give me an idea on size of the originals, so I have a base point to up scale from?

I picked up some 2" x 2" brass square for the cyl. I thinking of leaving the general outer shape square with the cooling fins. This will give the same over all profile of the shape of the head. Using 2" x 2" 6061 for the heads, but cut cooling fins into the head to give the same contrast of the cyl and a little different look than other Halo's.

Matt

 

[Blogwitch]

Matt,

When I contacted Lance at Liney for some, he told me that they were just normal springs out of ballpoint pens and cut in half.

If you are going up in size, don't make them too strong, as all they do is keep the operating rod in contact with the rocker. Something rather fine but the correct ID would be ample.


John

 

[1hand]

Perfect Thanks.

Matt

 

[1hand]

Well my good deal on the 2" brass fell through, "purchased on Ebay for 1/3 of retail, but seller backed out, said it was out of stock" So my next choice for the cyl. is 6061. My question is what should I use for the pistons with the aluminium cyl. and heads?

Matt

 

[Blogwitch]

The plans call for brass cylinders with ali pistons. With the wear part of the equation falling onto the softer ali pistons, which is the correct way to do things.

You could just reverse it, but then you would get a heavier reciprocating mass, then that would most probably start to wear away at the cylinders, not an ideal situation.

If I was in your situation, I would sleeve the ali bores with thin wall brass tubing fixed in with loctite and use the original idea of ali pistons.

Or if that doesn't appeal, because it is running on air, you could make both from ali, but you would need to keep the finishes very fine, with no tight fits, with plenty of lube while bedding in, to prevent the parts galling together. Once they have bedded together, and worn each other smooth, they should then be fine. Or even make the pistons a couple of thou smaller and fit an o-ring piston ring to retain the air tight seal required. The engine might not auto start with o-rings fitted, due to the inceased friction, but there would be no problems after a flick to get it running. You would need to try it out.

Just suggestions

 

[1hand]

bogs,

thanks,
Matt

 

[1hand]

If I was in your situation, I would sleeve the ali bores with thin wall brass tubing fixed in with loctite and use the original idea of ali pistons.

I like this Idea. I guess, I would be making these sleeves from brass rod, cause I'm not finding any tube that fits the bill.

So, in regards to sleeve thickness, what would be satisfactory for a .750" bore? Wall thickness is what I'm asking.

Having not turned any thin brass before, was wondering about some Ideas for doing this. I would image that holding such thin stock when turning the final OD, would be an issue. Not to crush or deform the sleeve.

Matt

 

[Blogwitch]

Matt,

Your best bet would be to search bathroom supplies and look for say 3/4" or 19mm chrome plated brass tubing. It is used for shower rails, towel rails etc.

Sometimes DIY stores have it in stock on the shelves.

Or if you want to do it yourself, loctite your brass bar into the pre bored cylinder first, then just treat the cylinder as you would if you were making the whole lot from solid brass. But don't let it overheat, take things steady.
I personally would have a min wall thickness of around 0.010".


Bogs

 

[1hand]

Or if you want to do it yourself, loctite your brass bar into the pre bored cylinder first, then just treat the cylinder as you would if you were making the whole lot from solid brass. But don't let it overheat, take things steady.
I personally would have a min wall thickness of around 0.010".

You know......Sometimes I'm a real Idiot. I never thought about turning the inner bore of the sleeve while it was already installed in the cyl. Why is it sometimes I can never see the obvious! *club*


Thanks,
Matt

 

[cfellows]

You might consider 1/2" brass pipe nipple material for the cylinder. It has on OD of about .815 and an ID of about .625. You can buy these in various lengths in the plumbing section at Home Depot, Lowes, or most any hardware store. I would buy the longest length I could get then cut the lengths you need out of that. As Bogs said, you could then epoxy those into the cylinder block and bore the brass to size.

Chuck