lathe tooling for casting kit. Turning a lot of iron and bronze, occasional aluminum I suppose.

[DDoty]

I am not lathe master at all, but ready to take on my first castings kit. I have had a Grizzly 4003G for maybe 7-10 years to support a cars, racing and aero hobby but always simple functional parts so this requires me to bring my skill level up for sure. Surface finish is now going to be important to me. I am retired now and want to get a fresh start on tool post tooling. All I had in the past is home ground HSS and a real cheap set of tcmt holders and carbide, "$30 set" stuff. Looking for advise for my new mission. For what it is worth I have preferred the cut of HSS in the past but know I would learn a lot more about carbide and do better with it as well. My biggest unknown is about cutting the outer crust off of all the iron castings since I have never done this. I have studied a lot and am up to speed on decoding all the inserts and am down to the following options and would really appreciate experienced input for this specific task.

#1: Do I look at new higher quality ccmt or tcmt ? which do you like if you use these ?
#2: If so, 3252 or 3251 series radi on the inserts ? Is one of the other better for different tasks ? my lathe is is 2hp 12x36...
#3: Should I consider Arthur R. Warner Co. HSS inserts, I kinda like this idea.

I have respect for all the hand grinding people and I have done mine thus far and only want to do the needed customs looking forward unless this is the best answer. to all of the above. I want to make engine parts for now rather than hone my HSS and skills at doing so. ??

Thanks to any and all who will chime in. Doug Doty, Madison Indiana,

 

[deverett]

Thoughts from the other side of the pond.
TCT tools are very useful for getting under the skin of castings. If using insert tooling, your choice will probably be between CCxx or TCxx shape inserts.
Over here, CCxx are very popular, but on your side, TCxx may be more popular. Popularity could be a determining factor in cost of inserts.
There will be an ideal grade of insert for each metal, but they will all do a job for you. If mainly for cast iron, use a grade specifically for that and it use it on your other metals without problem.
For roughing castings, you don't want too small a radius otherwise the tip can be easily chipped. On the other hand, a large radius will easily promote chatter. So a strategy may be to have a few inserts with a larger radius for initial cutting and have others with a smaller radius for general turning.
For aluminium, uncoated ground tips (CCGT or TCGT) give an excellent finish, also they are good for light cuts on most other metals.
Whatever you go for, try and stick to one shape and size (for your lathe 1/2" square should be OK) otherwise you end up spending a small fortune on tools and inserts.
I don't see the point of using HSS inserts from the likes of Warner, unless for specialised jobs such as grooving, but don't dismiss HSS tooling. It can be ground freehand into form tools or other shapes for jobs that normal inserts are unsuitable.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

 

[SmithDoor]

Cast iron is great to machine it on best metals.
Aluminum is good to ok great age better it machines.

Brass/Bronze use dill cutters shape cutters will pull the cutter in to the work.

Dave

I am not lathe master at all, but ready to take on my first castings kit. I have had a Grizzly 4003G for maybe 7-10 years to support a cars, racing and aero hobby but always simple functional parts so this requires me to bring my skill level up for sure. Surface finish is now going to be important to me. I am retired now and want to get a fresh start on tool post tooling. All I had in the past is home ground HSS and a real cheap set of tcmt holders and carbide, "$30 set" stuff. Looking for advise for my new mission. For what it is worth I have preferred the cut of HSS in the past but know I would learn a lot more about carbide and do better with it as well. My biggest unknown is about cutting the outer crust off of all the iron castings since I have never done this. I have studied a lot and am up to speed on decoding all the inserts and am down to the following options and would really appreciate experienced input for this specific task.

#1: Do I look at new higher quality ccmt or tcmt ? which do you like if you use these ?
#2: If so, 3252 or 3251 series radi on the inserts ? Is one of the other better for different tasks ? my lathe is is 2hp 12x36...
#3: Should I consider Arthur R. Warner Co. HSS inserts, I kinda like this idea.

I have respect for all the hand grinding people and I have done mine thus far and only want to do the needed customs looking forward unless this is the best answer. to all of the above. I want to make engine parts for now rather than hone my HSS and skills at doing so. ??

Thanks to any and all who will chime in. Doug Doty, Madison Indiana,

 

[Vietti]

I have had very good luck with the lathe tools from Bangood, China. They are a fraction of the cost of US stuff, just as good and their cutoff tool maybe superior.

 

[PeterDRG]

I have had very good luck with the lathe tools from Bangood, China. They are a fraction of the cost of US stuff, just as good and their cutoff tool maybe superior.

That could get you excommunicated ! But I agree with you. It is a bit like with the Japanese, years ago, with cameras, motorcycles and surveying instruments. First they made bad copies, then they made better copies, then they started innovating. By the time the traditional manufacturers woke up to the need to spend more on R&D, it was too late. I've had several things from Banggood recently that were innovative and really well made.
We could worry about the Chinese taking control, but the move towards electric vehicles guarantees it, as the Chinese are the main source for the raw materials for the batteries needed.

 

[L98fiero]

#2: If so, 3252 or 3251 series radi on the inserts ? Is one of the other better for different tasks ? my lathe is is 2hp 12x36...

It's generally accepted that the depth of cut with carbide tooling is that it shouldn't be less than the radius if the insert, therefore, use the 3252 for roughing and the 3251 for finish cuts. If you watch the speed you can also use the CCGT/TCGT inserts for aluminum on steel, they cut a lot like HSS because they have a much sharper edge.

 

[Bazzer]

That could get you excommunicated ! But I agree with you. It is a bit like with the Japanese, years ago, with cameras, motorcycles and surveying instruments. First they made bad copies, then they made better copies, then they started innovating. By the time the traditional manufacturers woke up to the need to spend more on R&D, it was too late. I've had several things from Banggood recently that were innovative and really well made.
We could worry about the Chinese taking control, but the move towards electric vehicles guarantees it, as the Chinese are the main source for the raw materials for the batteries needed.

I am afraid the China situation is nothing like the Japanese recovery in the 1950's and 60's and therefore your analogy is some what flawed.

So WW2 ended 1945 by the late 1950's Japanese brands were forging out in their own right very notable were companies like Honda and Sony, these companies were not copying Western products, rather they were creating their own unique designs and innovations.

By the 1960's the Japanese had massive traction and momentum.

To parallel this with China, then we would need to look at the time frame since the early 1980's (Deng Xiaoping reforms) now tell me one single Chinese brand that was recognisable in the West by the late 90's.

And there lies the difference, the Chinese are very slow to build brands with their own IP as they just copy existing products !!

 

[L98fiero]

And there lies the difference, the Chinese are very slow to build brands with their own IP as they just copy existing products !!

The difference is that China is a huge country that didn't have huge injections of cash and an existing manufacturing base either as Japan did after WWII. Yes, China is copying a lot as every emerging country does but they are already leaders in quite a few industries and they are spending a lot on basic research as well. China already far out produces any other country on wind turbines, solar cells, electric vehicles and battery technology and many other industries and because ASML can't ship to them, they are doing the basic development on getting to the leading edge of chip manufacture. They are spending the money required on infrastructure, they are no longer 'just copying' and once they reach that critical mass of technology and innovation they will be a force to be reckoned with and might make Japan's rise look small in comparison, don't underestimate them.

 

[Bazzer]

The difference is that China is a huge country that didn't have huge injections of cash and an existing manufacturing base either as Japan did after WWII. Yes, China is copying a lot as every emerging country does but they are already leaders in quite a few industries and they are spending a lot on basic research as well. China already far out produces any other country on wind turbines, solar cells, electric vehicles and battery technology and many other industries and because ASML can't ship to them, they are doing the basic development on getting to the leading edge of chip manufacture. They are spending the money required on infrastructure, they are no longer 'just copying' and once they reach that critical mass of technology and innovation they will be a force to be reckoned with and might make Japan's rise look small in comparison, don't underestimate them.

I don't underestimate them, I just don't don't much like them.

I am not sure the Japs had much manufacturing base left in September 1945.

China has been industrialised as long as any other country.

My hope is that they implode from within, what they are doing is no favour to anyone including themselves, it is just not sustainable.

B.

 

[Richard Hed]

I don't underestimate them, I just don't don't much like them.

I am not sure the Japs had much manufacturing base left in September 1945.

China has been industrialised as long as any other country.

My hope is that they implode from within, what they are doing is no favour to anyone including themselves, it is just not sustainable.

B.

What do you mean it is not sustainable? Capitalism is never sustainable as it is a pyramid scheme that eventually falls because of the heavy weight at the top. Revolutions knock that down and then start a new pyramid. many cycles. So how is China not doing themselves a favor?

 

[Bazzer]

What do you mean it is not sustainable? Capitalism is never sustainable as it is a pyramid scheme that eventually falls because of the heavy weight at the top. Revolutions knock that down and then start a new pyramid. many cycles. So how is China not doing themselves a favor?

Richard

We probably should take this discussion somewhere else.

However the shear consumption of materials and resources which are demanded (not Chinas fault) and supplied by China at great cost to the Planet is just not sustainable.

You only have to look at the pollution and shear destruction of resources to see that China is doing itself no favours.

You maybe right about capitalism but you may well be wrong.

I have seen great strides in the west on pollution control, in fact a state just south of yours has done great work on this over the last few decades.

B.

 

[Richard Hed]

Richard

We probably should take this discussion somewhere else.

However the shear consumption of materials and resources which are demanded (not Chinas fault) and supplied by China at great cost to the Planet is just not sustainable.

You only have to look at the pollution and shear destruction of resources to see that China is doing itself no favours.

You maybe right about capitalism but you may well be wrong.

I have seen great strides in the west on pollution control, in fact a state just south of yours has done great work on this over the last few decades.

B.

Actually, it is not just capitalism, it is ANY type of state/system. The psychopaths (e.g. the bush family crime syndicate in America) percolate to the top, eventually become calcified and eventually fall. Thank you for clarifying that you were talking environmentally. I doubt that China gives a damn about the pollution they are causing--only when they are holding the Olympics. Speaking of great strides, it is true.

I visited Boston in 1969. The pollution was so thick, you could see the discoloration in 6 feet. My lungs and tongue were so conjested that I could taste oil. I got sick, headache, etc. I left quickly. On my way back to Wash Soviet I stopped in variious states. The rivers were so polluted they ran milky with whatever, sewage, industrial pollutants. and what's worse is people were actually fishing in those filthy rivers. Since Nixon, that has largely been cleaned up. The rivers now run clean and the pollution in the big cities is WAY WAY WAY down.

What state south of the Soviet of Washington are you speaking of? Please don't tease.

 

[62rkyle]

Actually, it is not just capitalism, it is ANY type of state/system. The psychopaths (e.g. the bush family crime syndicate in America) percolate to the top, eventually become calcified and eventually fall. Thank you for clarifying that you were talking environmentally. I doubt that China gives a damn about the pollution they are causing--only when they are holding the Olympics. Speaking of great strides, it is true.

I visited Boston in 1969. The pollution was so thick, you could see the discoloration in 6 feet. My lungs and tongue were so conjested that I could taste oil. I got sick, headache, etc. I left quickly. On my way back to Wash Soviet I stopped in variious states. The rivers were so polluted they ran milky with whatever, sewage, industrial pollutants. and what's worse is people were actually fishing in those filthy rivers. Since Nixon, that has largely been cleaned up. The rivers now run clean and the pollution in the big cities is WAY WAY WAY down.

What state south of the Soviet of Washington are you speaking of? Please don't tease.
Is there no moderator on here to stop these left coast commies from taking over,?