Kyle's Edwards Radial build.

[petertha]

Re the bronze, if I recall one of Terry's posts, he started with 954 aluminum bronze, then switched to 544 phosphor bronze, but discovered later it was actually 660 bronze. Don't remember if this was the 9-cyl or 18-cyl now. Hopefully I have the story right. So just curious, what alloy numbers do you mean by 'phospher bronze' & 'bearing bronze' & which are you leaning towards?

 

[Blogwitch]

For all you tailstock reamer jockeys.

Unless you have a floating reamer setup (almost any good gunsmith will confirm this), ANY, even by a tiny amount of tailstock out of alignment will result in a larger than reamer sized hole, purely because the reamer is being held off centre and not following the original drilled or bored hole.

Have a look here for details

http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Floating_Reamer_Holder.html

Click on the picture for more details.

After reseaching them for a few years, I am just about to eventually make one, but because all my reamer sets are now parallel shank, it will have a keyless chuck instead of the MT taper holders, which will result in a much shorter unit. All my larger 3MT reamers will be used on my mill as I have both vertical and horizontal boring facilities.
If anyone wants to know more, then send me a PM.

John

 

[Lakc]

Thank you Pete
Hey Jeff,
Your boxer twin sounds cool, do you have a build thread?
Necer seen the yahoo groups, do you have a link?

Thanks
Kyle

Kyle,
Build thread is here: http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=10465
For pics, your going to have to troll my photobucket.
http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/lakethstadt/library/old default?sort=3&page=1
The Yahoo group is the only place to "officially" get Forrest Edwards plans for that motor. Apparently he had willed the rights to the group itself, who officially drew up the plans. There were some early mistakes in some of the plans elsewhere on the web, so join and get the whole story.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R_and_R_engines/info

 

[petertha]

For all you tailstock reamer jockeys.
... it will have a keyless chuck instead of the MT taper holders, which will result in a much shorter unit. John

I got interested in this a while back & couldn't figure out why it wasn't common tooling, like a standard lathe MT# shank on the rear and ER or ordinary 3-jaw drill type chuck on the front to grip straight shank reamers. The closest I see are these straight shanks.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/BISON-GFI-ER-Floating-Reamer-Collet-Chuck-1-Straight-Shank-Size-ER25-/222047021762?hash=item33b308aac2:g:BAAAAOSwoudW7ANC

The good ones like this Bison seem spendy. Are there offshore equivalents? Is it kind of like a center finding principle where the mating faces might be precision ground? And I think these are different than floating tapping chucks, yes? Some of those look like rubber collets, but I know less about those.

 

[Blogwitch]

Peter,

When you actually see the drawings for home made ones, they are very basic, with just normal achievable machining tolerances involved.

All you are doing is allowing the reamer to point in the direction and offset that it wants to be without allowing it to rotate, basically a sloppy and floppy CV joint that allows the reamer to move sideways either way, up and down, plus at whatever angle it wants to go, all at the same time.

I have seen a few designs and chose two which I thought were frontrunners in ease of manufacture with good engineering practices and theories, and came to the final decision that the Hemingway one will be the one I want to make, and so I bought the full kit.
Looking at it now, it was grossly overpriced, not the very good drawings and build instructions, they can't be faulted, but the materials involved, I could have bought them for a very little money compared to what Hemingway charged me for them. But of course, you don't find out things like that until you have paid for and received the package. Maybe that is why they won't just sell you the plans, they make huge profits on basic materials.

John

 

[kylenlord]

Hey Peter,

The Bronze I'm using is called Machinable 936 Bearing Bronze, also known as modified SAE64. It is from McMaster-Carr.

I noticed it was soft because after I reamed the center hole and used a die to cut the threads, the hole had closed in slightly. It was just coincidence I looked at MayHughs 9cyl build thread.
I must admit I went and ordered Lee Hodgson's 14cyl plans and rear casting as a future project.
I must also admit that material selection is somewhat new to me. I assumed that bearing bronze was the right material to get because of the valves sliding in and out. I didn't realize the vast array of types or levels of hardness available. I'm concerned if I do use this bronze, the guides may wear prematurely.

It's all part of the learning curve, at the very least I plan to cut the threads and then ream the hole, regardless of the material I use.

I'm not sure if it matters, but the reamer I have is slightly tapered. The very end is coming in at .1252" and towards the rear of the cutting flutes its .124" I'm guessing it is so the reamer has more clearance as it goes further in. Does this help at all if the reamer was to be slight off center? In accordance with you theory however, it did seem like the hole tightened up slightly towards the top. I'd be willing to bet my tailstock is off.

I'm considering using a center drill on the lathe, then when I put the valves guides into the rotary table I can drill and ream on the mill. Is this a better solution?

Either way, I think I'm going to work on the valve rockers next. Take a break from the valve guides, and welcome in a new set of challenges. There seems to be quite a few steps so I think they'll keep me occupied for a while.

Thank you everyone
Kyle

 

[petertha]

Hmm.. I'm going to have to check into this subject more myself. So far I'm just playing follow the leader. Found this link which lists a bunch of bronze grades, properties & alloy constituents. Look at the range of hardness numbers for example.

http://www.advancebronze.com/alloy-charts.php

 

[kylenlord]

Hello everyone,
I had a little time this weekend and started cleaning up the blanks for the rocker arms.

I started by making sure the vice was square to the table.

View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1458698372.572158.jpg

Then I milled one long side of the blanks.

View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1458698444.207094.jpg

Then I flipped the parts over and milled the other side. I locked the quill and fed parts through so they'd all be the same height.

View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1458698597.817561.jpg

Now they're the same width, I stood them on the side and milled the first short side.

View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1458698814.868443.jpg

I have to be careful with this method, the very last rocker blank shifted while milling.

On the next run I did a batches of 3 which worked better.

View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1458699187.266188.jpg

Here the blanks are ready for layout, I left them with about .015" extra on either side so when I mill the radius I'll come into my final length.



I went to kill time at Harbor Freight and walked away with these for $20.

View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1458699658.200171.jpg

I know they're cheap, but the carbide tips are replaceable and I get the play around with carbide bits. So far they seem to cut through the bronze and drill rod very well. I plan on systematically breaking all of those drill bits when I get a chance.

I have phospher bronze on order as well, when it comes in I'll have another go at making valve guides.

Thanks for looking
Kyle

 

[RonGinger]

I have tried to hold several pieces together to do a mill operation like you did and had the same problem. Since they are not all perfectly the same thickness the vise doesn't get a firm grip on them all.

Try gluing them together with super glue. Then you can handle the whole block as one piece for making several cuts. When you are finished a quick pass with a propane torch and the glue breaks down and the parts just fall apart. Glued together the block is easy to handle to set in the vise in various orientations for each cut.

 

[ozzie46]

You might want to take a look at the smallest drill bits under a magnifying glass. I bought 2 sets of those bits and there was no way that the smallest would drill a hole.

Ron

 

[ICEpeter]

Hello Kyle,
Your problem with holding multiple pieces of supposedly the same size in the milling vice I typically solve by putting a thin strip of rigid card board or hard plastic on one side in the vice between the vice jaw and the work pieces. The hard card board / plastic will give a little but will hold all pieces tightly and evenly while machining. Have had best of luck with this method so far.

Peter J.

 

[kylenlord]

Hey Ozzie thanks for the heads up on the drill bits. I needed the 1.8 mm bit for something but I'll keep them separate and check them before using.

Ron and Peter,
Thank you those are great tips and fortunately I'll get to try each one when I remake the blanks for the rockers.

Well I trimmed the blanks too short. This became apparent when I started laying out. I marked properly for rough cuts on the band saw, but when I milled them I forgot to take into account the outside radius.

View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1458784107.641012.jpg

I feel like an idiot, but believe me it isn't the worst or most expensive mistake I've made.

On the bright side a new 1/4" plate was just ordered for $15 shipped.

I also ordered a 4" by 10" 7075 rod to make the crankcase and cam cover. It was $50 shipped and I think I'm going to set it on the bench for a while until I gain more experience with the smaller parts.

Thanks everyone
Kyle

 

[Blogwitch]

Kyle.

Because you will be making so many parts the same during the whole build of this engine, I would recommend you make or buy yourself a mill vice stop.

Once set up for each operation (minutes) it will take care of all your critical dimensions, say 8 rocker arms, all exactly the same length, all with their drilled holes in exactly the same place. Once you set up for one operation, just drop on the next one and cut to exactly the same position.

I made a rather complicated one that sits permanently attached to my vice, but one that clamps to the table would suffice.

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,1306.0.html

The very first picture shows, next to the LHS of the vice, my old clamp to the table stop, it need not be a complicated job, I made it out of a redundant home made scribing block, or you can read on and make yourself a more permanent offering.

Sorry I had to send you to another site, as this build is also on here, but missing the pictures, and as we all know, we can't edit old posts to restore them all. Bad admin decision.

John

 

[Lakc]

I also ordered a 4" by 10" 7075 rod to make the crankcase and cam cover. It was $50 shipped and I think I'm going to set it on the bench for a while until I gain more experience with the smaller parts.

Thanks everyone
Kyle

Where did you get that price? 12 inches at Mcmaster is $200.
The price of the case material, and that darned expensive internal gear, are a couple of reasons I have not begun this build. I can cast the case, but still have not figured out a good home shop method for the internal gear.

 

[petertha]

7075 4" random length (10-12") is $140 at OLM. An honest 12" is $155. Plus they have 20% off now.

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=7165&step=4&showunits=inches&id=192&top_cat=60

 

[Lakc]

7075 4" random length (10-12") is $140 at OLM. An honest 12" is $155. Plus they have 20% off now.

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=7165&step=4&showunits=inches&id=192&top_cat=60

A good price, and I would never quote Mcmaster as the cheapest around, (oddball things maybe), but its still close to 3x what Kyle got.

 

[kylenlord]

John,
That stop looks great! The handles really look like they were worth the effort. I woke up around 5:30 this morning saw your post and it confused the heck out of me. I went back to bed and reread the post later. It makes so much more sense now at the end of the day. I'll consider making one when I have some down time, wherever I can I'll set up stops, I was already racking my brain to make a jig to mill the angles on the top of the rockers.

The chunk of aluminum is from eBay seller zetoscnc. He seems to only have one at a time, as I've been watching that auction for a couple months. When someone would buy that piece, he'd list another one. He doesn't have one for sale right now, but I'll keep my eyes open and if it's listed again I'll post a link to it.

The next thing I'd like to bid on is a used axle lengths made from 4140 steel for the crankshaft. You tell him how long you want it and he finds the closest piece. I believe he's asking $2.50 a lb.

I got the plans and casting for the 14 cyl radial today, the plans in a word are intimidating. It must be about 4" thick. Think I'm going to study them for some time. Lee did say that if I was working on the Edwards radial that I'd be pleasantly surprised at how well his plans are layed out.

Thanks everyone
Kyle

 

[Blogwitch]

Kyle,

I have a much better and more versatile vice to fit to my machine now, the only problem is, since the new vice already has the 8mm fitting hole in the right position, I need to remove that fitting from the old vice, and it has been loctited in for a fair while now.
The 160mm version of this

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catal...ine-Vices/ARC-Versatile-SG-Iron-Milling-Vices

I don't want to use heat on it, so I think I have a bit of a battle coming soon.

I would be lost without a backstop.

John

 

[kylenlord]

Hey John what kind of vice? A lot of this stuff is new to me still. I find with my vice when using parallels the part will come up when tightened and I have to tap it back down and verify its touching the parallel.

Work continues on some smaller parts. I got some 3/16" oil hardening drill rod to make the rocker buttons.

View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1459007101.498917.jpg

View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1459007116.152574.jpg

View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1459007134.862757.jpg

They are teeny tiny, and currently stuck on a magnet so they wont get lost.

I have another 7 to make and I'm hoping to get those wrapped up today.

My chunk of aluminum came in.

View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1459007230.279966.jpg

It is massive, when I get a chance I'll bring it to work and chop it on the horizontal band saw.

Also, another piece is available on eBay, if anyone is interested I'll post a link.

Plans and casting came in for the 14 cyl radial.

View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1459007351.554433.jpg

View attachment ImageUploadedByModel Engines1459007364.544235.jpg

It took me about 4 hours to look through all the sheets and put them in a 3 ring binder. I'm really looking forward to it.

Thanks everyone
Kyle

 

[petertha]

The chunk of aluminum is from eBay seller zetoscnc. Kyle

I tried searching on that name & not getting any hits. Typo maybe? Can you provide a link or past transaction number? That's insanely cheap for 50$ shipped.