HSS Lathe Tool Shapes and Angles

[Richard Hed]

Be very cautious when buying on ebay as a lot of sellers simply buy from know sellers then simply re-sell them for a higher price. Always check Sharz, Grizz, even McMaster-Carr and others before buying on ebay. Also amazog is almost ALWAYs higher priced than you can find elsewhere.

Even buying direct from China can be a good choice if you trust them.

 

[hammez]

Be very cautious when buying on ebay as a lot of sellers simply buy from know sellers then simply re-sell them for a higher price. Always check Sharz, Grizz, even McMaster-Carr and others before buying on ebay. Also amazog is almost ALWAYs higher priced than you can find elsewhere.

Even buying direct from China can be a good choice if you trust them.

Ok I will look around.
I don't tend to by machine parts direct from China (or at all for that matter).

 

[Richard Hed]

The aloris BXA (I think that is the one I need for my lathe swing) is a 5/8" diameter hole.

What is the swing of your lathe? Also what is the diameter of that post in the photo? I'm not sure how your mount works. It looks to me that there is a well a couple inches across. In that case, you will need some thing to fill in that well. I thimpfks that a single solid piece would keep flexure down as apposed to two parts: I'll draw up simple examples to show you what I mean and post it in a few .

 

[Richard Hed]

OK, here they are. Since I do not know the size of the post at the bottom, the diam, pitch, etc. I made that end larger to make sure you understand that the two ends might be different. Then in the one example, the post and that well filling part are integral. the other one, they are two parts. If you made the two part one, it might be a good idea to press fit the two parts.

Ah, I see the back side of the one part did not show up, it is identical to the large end of the post part in the other one.

 

[hammez]

What is the swing of your lathe? Also what is the diameter of that post in the photo? I'm not sure how your mount works. It looks to me that there is a well a couple inches across. In that case, you will need some thing to fill in that well. I thimpfks that a single solid piece would keep flexure down as apposed to two parts: I'll draw up simple examples to show you what I mean and post it in a few .

If I remember rightly it is a 14" swing

 

[hammez]

OK, here they are. Since I do not know the size of the post at the bottom, the diam, pitch, etc. I made that end larger to make sure you understand that the two ends might be different. Then in the one example, the post and that well filling part are integral. the other one, they are two parts. If you made the two part one, it might be a good idea to press fit the two parts.

Ah, I see the back side of the one part did not show up, it is identical to the large end of the post part in the other one.

And yes that was my initial thought, and if I need a sleeve on the post then I can make it integral to the filler disk.

 

[Richard Hed]

And yes that was my initial thought, and if I need a sleeve on the post then I can make it integral to the filler disk.

If that is 14", then the BXA is the correct size. That's what I have on my 12" Grizz. It's great. Only thing is I have about 10-12 tool holders and THAT is not enough. I'm going to make some more.

 

[Richard Hed]

And yes that was my initial thought, and if I need a sleeve on the post then I can make it integral to the filler disk.

What power is your lathe? have you managed to take the post out yet?

 

[hammez]

What power is your lathe? have you managed to take the post out yet?

I thinknit has its original 3/4 hp motor on it still.
Unfortunately I haven't had a mo I will likely have a go tomorrow.

 

[william_b_noble]

Personally, being retard and a cheapskate, I can't afford and wouldn't pay that kind of price. You can find much cheaper ones that do a great job on Sharz or Grizz or other cheapo places, but yes, that type are the good ones.

Be careful when you buy this style, however, in that there are several sizes: AXA, BXA, CXA and maybe others. These letters (the first letter A, B, C) indicate the size. (THis took me for ever to find out what those mean). Essentially, the A size is for small machines and certainly not suitable for taking large cuts. The B is medium sized machines and quite suitable for large cuts. The C is for large machines and suitable for huge cuts.

So if you buy a "B" size, all your tool holders have to be "B" size. You can also make some, they aren't too difficult. The 60deg. inside bevel being the most difficult and care has to be taken to get them spaced correctly. There is also a trick for making them where you don't need to be quite so careful.

I have Aloris B size on my 12" lathe, A size is ok too. I started with the cheap stuff, if you have absolutely nothing, then I suppose it will work, but for me, paying $500 or $600 for a used real aloris tool post with a couple of holders is worth it. it's the difference between having a deux ceveoux with a fiberglass jaguar body on it, or a real 1932 SSI - of if you't like that model maybe it's like having a VW with a lambo body or a real countarc, or a ..... you get the idea - the cheap made in India ones look vagely like something that could have been an Aloris device in some other universe, but the fit is poor, precision is lacking the feel is gritty and slopp, the finish is non-existant and they are not rigid. Phase 2 is a good quality import but it is still a pale simulacra of the real aloris.

But, do some homework, if I remember the lathe correctly, even the Aloris A size is too big. They make one size smaller, but you may be reluctant to pay 3X the price you paid for the lathe to get a tool post.

and from the photos, that lathe will be very hard to adapt, it sure looks like it had 4-way tool post, I'd try to find other photos of your lathe to see how it was equippped, but if that stud and the casting it is in is part of the cross-slide, you just won't get an aloris or an aloris clone to work. your lathe had a holder with detents around a clynder that was a precision fit into that opening. the detents achieved alignment via the spring loaded pawl shown in the photos. the post is a close fit (ream/machine .001 over) to the stud. there is a threaded handle on top that clamps the tool post so it can't rotate, and there will be 4 slots along the side with set-screws to hold tooling. I posted a photo of the type you had before, but here it is again. Unless you can make a new cross-slide top, quit talking about aloris and aloris clones they just won't work. (click on the crozier tool post link, if it doesn't work, search for crozier 4-way tool post). you have to make the square tool holding part and the handle, unless you can find those parts. or make a new top for the cross slide, which is much harder and requires much more precision machining. And it needs a good quality mill.

I hope my post makes sense to you.

crozier tool post

 

[william_b_noble]

just noticed you say the lathe is a 14 inch swing (I presume that means 7 inches from the axis of rotation to the ways). in that case you definately have a Crozier style 4 way tool post. I have several sitting here, I doubt it's worth shipping one to you, but here is a photo of one that I have that would be cheap to buy - you can see how it works, yours is similar but not identical. your tool post will have a square top like the one in the photos, but the bottom part will fit into the well in the cross slide and will engage the pawl therein. an earlier photo showed something in that well, can you show a photo of that part, it will tell you a lot about what else you are looking for or what you have to make. I can sell this one for $25, but as I noted I doubt that shipping across the pond is worth it.

 

[hammez]

I have Aloris B size on my 12" lathe, A size is ok too. I started with the cheap stuff, if you have absolutely nothing, then I suppose it will work, but for me, paying $500 or $600 for a used real aloris tool post with a couple of holders is worth it. it's the difference between having a deux ceveoux with a fiberglass jaguar body on it, or a real 1932 SSI - of if you't like that model maybe it's like having a VW with a lambo body or a real countarc, or a ..... you get the idea - the cheap made in India ones look vagely like something that could have been an Aloris device in some other universe, but the fit is poor, precision is lacking the feel is gritty and slopp, the finish is non-existant and they are not rigid. Phase 2 is a good quality import but it is still a pale simulacra of the real aloris.

But, do some homework, if I remember the lathe correctly, even the Aloris A size is too big. They make one size smaller, but you may be reluctant to pay 3X the price you paid for the lathe to get a tool post.

and from the photos, that lathe will be very hard to adapt, it sure looks like it had 4-way tool post, I'd try to find other photos of your lathe to see how it was equippped, but if that stud and the casting it is in is part of the cross-slide, you just won't get an aloris or an aloris clone to work. your lathe had a holder with detents around a clynder that was a precision fit into that opening. the detents achieved alignment via the spring loaded pawl shown in the photos. the post is a close fit (ream/machine .001 over) to the stud. there is a threaded handle on top that clamps the tool post so it can't rotate, and there will be 4 slots along the side with set-screws to hold tooling. I posted a photo of the type you had before, but here it is again. Unless you can make a new cross-slide top, quit talking about aloris and aloris clones they just won't work. (click on the crozier tool post link, if it doesn't work, search for crozier 4-way tool post). you have to make the square tool holding part and the handle, unless you can find those parts. or make a new top for the cross slide, which is much harder and requires much more precision machining. And it needs a good quality mill.

I hope my post makes sense to you.

crozier tool post

Yep sorry my bad i have just look at the specs of my lathe and my memory is incorrect. The lathe is a 6 x 20 so it is a 12" swing. ( I think )

 

[hammez]

Yep sorry my bad i have just look at the specs of my lathe and my memory is incorrect. The lathe is a 6 x 20 so it is a 12" swing. ( I think )

Also I think I might get one like the first ebay link that I posted cos I'm pretty sure I can adapt it. Also I can't afford to spend the cost of an aloris and I really don't want to mess with the precision of one because it is a very expensive mistake if I mess it up.

 

[ajoeiam]

Personally, being retard and a cheapskate, I can't afford and wouldn't pay that kind of price. You can find much cheaper ones that do a great job on Sharz or Grizz or other cheapo places, but yes, that type are the good ones.

Be careful when you buy this style, however, in that there are several sizes: AXA, BXA, CXA and maybe others. These letters (the first letter A, B, C) indicate the size. (THis took me for ever to find out what those mean). Essentially, the A size is for small machines and certainly not suitable for taking large cuts. The B is medium sized machines and quite suitable for large cuts. The C is for large machines and suitable for huge cuts.

Hmmmm - - - - wondering what you would call the D and the E series?

 

[Richard Hed]

Hmmmm - - - - wondering what you would call the D and the E series?

I forgot about those as I nevr come near using them. I wojuld call the "D" size DXA and the "E" size EXA. They cut respectively Humongous chips and "grande hyoomongoose" chips.

 

[KellisRJ]

Tom's Techniques is a good HHS tool sharpening reference.
If you are going to stick with HHS, I, and many others, find Gary's/ Eccentric Engineering diamond (tangential) tool holders well worth the investment. Super simple grind with a jig and ridiculously easy to keep sharp. Good for just about everything except threading. He has some YouTube videos and YouTube machinist Quinn/BlondieHacks used one in her last posting to see them in action.

Ron

 

[PeterDRG]

Try Rotagrip, in the Midlands, for anything chuck related.

 

[Lloyd-ss]

SHARPENING ACCESSORIES
Plenty of good replies already, but I will still add my "opinion."

Being a home machinist you aren't looking for optimum set-ups for production. Just something that works for you and almost all of your materials.

One thing that I have found VERY helpful is being able to touch-up the cutting edge of a tool while it is still on the machine, and of curse, when it is taken off. I have collected these items over the years and LOVE the diamond tools. The diamond prices are not bad if you shop around. In the US, Harbor Freight is the biggie, and I have been very pleased with their absurdly cheap diamond tools. The big advantage of diamond sharpening tools is that they work very fast. 2 strokes instead of 10.

You might find that having a SHARP tool is much more important than having the "correct" angle.

 

[william_b_noble]

just noticed you say the lathe is a 14 inch swing (I presume that means 7 inches from the axis of rotation to the ways). in that case you definately have a Crozier style 4 way tool post. I have several sitting here, I doubt it's worth shipping one to you, but here is a photo of one that I have that would be cheap to buy - you can see how it works, yours is similar but not identical. your tool post will have a square top like the one in the photos, but the bottom part will fit into the well in the cross slide and will engage the pawl therein. an earlier photo showed something in that well, can you show a photo of that part, it will tell you a lot about what else you are looking for or what you have to make. I can sell this one for $25, but as I noted I doubt that shipping across the pond is worth it.

I was looking on ebay trying to figure out what the above tool post is for - I haven't found that, but I found this item which I think shows your tool post complete so at least you know what it looks like, it certainly looks like it aligns with the pictures you have posted.
myford tool post

there is also someone selling a magazine article from 1942 on how to make your own

 

[BaronJ]

Hi Guys, I've not been around for a bit, so may have missed a lot of stuff !

I made a Norman Patent tool post for my lathe, quite easy to make and adjust. I made two one for the front and a second one for use at the rear. Mainly for parting off. However the tool holders are interchangeable so that I can use either one on the front or rear posts.

These pictures show mine ! At one time Myford used to provide this type of tool post. A number of these have been built to suit smaller and larger lathes.