Hello from Germany

[Michael Rosenbauer]

Hello at all,
I am Michael Rosenbauer from Thuringias capital City Erfurt.
My age is 56. I am a educated laith operator with a 2 year eduacation at CNC machines.

I have a small shop at home with some china made mills and a laith, band saw, anything you need to have just for the hobby a will enforced when I retire.

I try to build a Steward Edwards Radial5 and as you know we have different length system.
So I converted the hole Plan to mm and draw the Plan on PC with CAD.

I modified my conventional BF20 Milling machine to a CNC version to make all the parts who will be excessive
time- consuming by doing conventional.
Sorry for my bad english.
So long Michael

 

[TonyM]

Hi Michael. Welcome to the site. I look forward to seeing your build on here.

 

[Michael Rosenbauer]

Thanks fore the wellcome,
I am building 2 of them so I may can sell one for the next project material. Lets see.
Crankshaft housing with timing housing are 90% finished. Gear ring is hard to get in germany so I need to make it by myself. But that is down the road.

 

[oldCB]

Thanks fore the wellcome,
I am building 2 of them so I may can sell one for the next project material. Lets see.
Crankshaft housing with timing housing are 90% finished. Gear ring is hard to get in germany so I need to make it by myself. But that is down the road.

Very nice work! Your an inspiration.

 

[petertha]

Welcome Michael. Loosk like it is coming along nicely.
I had a chuckle, you live in Europe, building an Imperial based engine using metric machines & tools. I live in Canada & building a metric based engine with Imperial based machines.
https://www.engineman.de/en/
I'm building the 5-cylinder version.

 

[Michael Rosenbauer]

Hey Petertha,
thats realy funny. I thought about the Orndorf Radial5, but the uniqe lubrication system at the Edwards engine convinced me to build this Engine.
Do you convert some measurings for imperial bearing size, or are they easy to get in Canada, bacause that was my hardest job. Find the metric bearing sizes

 

[petertha]

Michael, metric bearings are very easy to source. No problem there. The bigger challenge was internal (ring) gear of correct module & tooth count. The cam timing requires that the 4 gears yield the correct 2:1 ratio for cam plate timing. Cutting the spur gears is not too bad, one can buy cutters. But my understanding is that the internal gear is a different, special tooth form. I think one would have to make a special shaped broach? I ended up getting the gears from Madler in Germany. They all have to be machined & modified to some extent for the engine. The Edwards radial cam gear train is very similar, but using Imperial (diametric pitch) of different tooth count.

I also had to source springs for valves of specific wire diameter, ID & OD to match constraints on the plans. I was prepared to wind some myself but I did find them eventually. Again... Germany as it turned out I have since built up an extensive selection of metric taps drills, reamers, , fasteners, hardware... I guess the next 'metric' engine will be easier.

 

[Michael Rosenbauer]

Whow that looks great.
Jap Cam timing is a problem I didn´t solve yet. Do to the space in the cam housing it isnt easy to convert the ratio to metric tooth with the right diameter.

Sorry but I dont get you if you say "Germany as it turned out" means?
Shouldn´t we make a new Thread " 5 Cylinder Rotating engines"
I think we can support each other if you want.

 

[Michael Rosenbauer]

Okay a was searching "my engine " and found a thread where you are high involved.

 

[petertha]

Do to the space in the cam housing it isnt easy to convert the ratio to metric tooth with the right diameter.
Sorry but I dont get you if you say "Germany as it turned out" means?
Shouldn´t we make a new Thread " 5 Cylinder Rotating engines"
I think we can support each other if you want.

Hi Michael

- if you build the Edwards I would recommend you try & get the Imperial gears for simplicity. One issue is the gear ratios for cam timing, that is a function of tooth count. The other issue is the resultant spacing of the axle center for the idler gear cluster. That will be a function of the pitch diameter of the Imperial gears. You could probably retrofit a metric module gear like the layout sketch I included as long as you factored in these issues. There are only a limited number of combinations of gears that will work. I have some notes when I was studying the Edwards, I will try to find so it helps explain.

- 'as it turned out' - I mean I searched for the specific module 40 tooth ring gear in Canada.USA and it was not very common, or when available very expensive & usually brass for some reason. Madler in Germany had them available in hard but machinable steel for reasonable cost. They were quite good to deal with. The springs were another matter. I will find the name of that different distributor. But the problem was not the per unit price, it was how they wanted funds. Not Paypal or credit card or E-transfer, but wire transfer. We don't use that very often here & when we do its expensive service charge. So I had to get help from someone in Germany to source & send to me.

- Its up to you on making a new thread. There have been a few construction posts on 5 cylinder radials but I think all Edwards. If you haven't already, I would highly recommend you do a search on 'Edwards' and you will find some good information where all aspects of the build are discussed. By & large most builders stayed with the plans, but also a few modifications here & there. I don't think anyone has yet posted on the Ohrndorf 5-cylinder other than me. I have almost completed the head prototypes which required some modifications, trial & error. I think I am finally happy now so when they are done, maybe next month or so, I will probably do a start-to-finish engine build post so its in somewhat logical order versus scattered all over. I have limited spare time so my construction dragged out a bit. But now I am seeing a glimpse of the finish line so motivated to complete. Personally I think it would be good if you documented your own Edwards build in a post. That way people can similarly search & help along the way as we do now.

One issue with the Ohrndorf is you have to buy both the 5-cyl and 9-cyl plans because the 5-cyl shares several 9-cyl parts, or some 9-cyl parts are 'modified'. He does not offer the 5-cyl in complete standalone plan set. That took me a while to sort out. Each part is individually drawn out, 2D plans likely from 3D CAD model. For the most part the plans are error free, but there are a few things that confused me. I suspect the same for most plans. Another (metric) radial option is the Jung 5-cyl. It is offered as a complete plans package.

The Ohrndorf has an oil bath in the nose case which lubricates the planetary gears & cam plates. The fuel is typical RC with oil blend, so the other parts get lubricated like an RC engine. The Edwards *as designed* uses straight methanol fuel but has a separate oil pump lubrication system. Both seem to work so its a personal choice.

 

[Foketry]

Hello Michael , welcome to this wonderful hobby.
I live in Italy, I spent 2 days in early November in Friedrichshafen to visit the Faszination modellbau , I suppose it's the biggest exhibition in Europe for model-making, have you been there ?
I also modified a Chinese milling machine turning it into a CNC machine with Mach3

 

[Michael Rosenbauer]

@petertha
Thank you for your explanation, I follow your suggestions.
A serious propose of mine is : IF you have any issues to buy parts, accessorys, anything in Germany ask me and we find a way how to proceed .

 

[Michael Rosenbauer]

@Foketry,
I would like to join the Faszination Modellbau, but unfortunately I need to work in UK at this time. I will certainly be there at the next time.
Im am looking foreward to it. What brand of milling was it before you convert it to CNC. I thougt a short moment to convert my F45 but the price is that f... high. High Power Servos instead of stepper, Changing dovetailguide, two side ball screw drives and so on. That would make it near a professional one, but its to time and money consuming.
I can only work on my project if I am at home, because I travel the world due to my job.

Ciao

 

[petertha]

A serious propose of mine is : IF you have any issues to buy parts, accessorys, anything in Germany ask me and we find a way how to proceed .

That is very kind of you. I might just take you up on that offer one day. I'm focused to complete my 5-cyl radial .... :rolleyes: but I have lately been eyeing other designs as the next project. First things first, this must be a runner & lessons learned.

By the way, I mentioned Jung as another plans source, but just wanted to clarify the website is called modelltechnik.
[URL]http://www.cad-modelltechnik-jung.de/seite1.htm[/URL]

 

[Michael Rosenbauer]

I was on his site and when I saw it it looks familiar to me and I remember, that was one of the first sites, when I started to be intrested in radial engines. but then I loose sight of..
I think I buy the 9 Cylinder 150 ccm plan. Youst to have it. His plans contains a manual how to machine and many details due to the complex interaction of all the components. This will help to bring my 5cylinder radial to an good end

 

[Foketry]

@Foketry,
I would like to join the Faszination Modellbau, but unfortunately I need to work in UK at this time. I will certainly be there at the next time.
Im am looking foreward to it. What brand of milling was it before you convert it to CNC. I thougt a short moment to convert my F45 but the price is that f... high. High Power Servos instead of stepper, Changing dovetailguide, two side ball screw drives and so on. That would make it near a professional one, but its to time and money consuming.
I can only work on my project if I am at home, because I travel the world due to my job.

Ciao

I purchased a Chinese ZX45 milling machine from an Italian supplier, I installed ball screws, Cc servo motors and Gecko drive servo driver from USA.
I built the fourth axis and mounted a 2.2 kW spindle , 20.000 rpm , with inverter alongside the main spindle
you can see my milling machine here
https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/howell-v4-from-italy.31118/#post-323967

 

[Michael Rosenbauer]

Nice convertion.