Experimental Flash Steam and others

[Richard Hed]

Can't help with the grounding, but on my VFD, the Hz are controlled by a dial to vary speed, with 60Hz being max.
Doug

Ah, maybe I simply do not understand, but I thot that the input needed a rating and that that may have been programmable to either 50Hz or 60Hz. And that naturally those of us in the Western hemisphere will have 60 Hz. The output, on the other hand, uses that dial.

 

[Sprocket]

There was no setting of 50 or 60 Hz input as it was a for US use, only output which is the variable.
But different manufacturers may do things differently....
Doug

 

[Richard Hed]

There was no setting of 50 or 60 Hz input as it was a for US use, only output which is the variable.
But different manufacturers may do things differently....
Doug

yes, mine is Huanyang . the pamphlet is ridiculously krappy. I thimpfks I will simply hook it up to the two inputs and the three 3ph outputs and see what happenas. I bought it ridiculously cheap with the thot that If I ruined it, I could simply buiy a new one and still be cheaper than a known quality one for 4/5X the price. Many of them are programmable.

 

[MrMetric]

Richard... Honestly, input frequency probably doesn't really matter, and here is the reason why....

VFDs work by rectifying the AC inputs so that they can create a high voltage DC bus inside the VFD. That bus has some big capacitors on it. Anyhow, the computer *generates* the three phase outputs for the motor from that DC bus. It controls speed by changing the output frequency and voltage, constantly monitoring these to manage the desired speed.

Herein lies part of the consideration when configuring the VFD (aka, programming it). Frequency is dv/dt, which is a nice way of mathematically saying "the change of voltage in time." The higher the frequency, the faster change in voltage. Now, the problem with that is that this is hard on the insulation of traditional motors if they are not built for VFD use. The net result is that you have minute arcs between windings. Over time, these can get worse and eventually result in a solid arc that burns out the motor. This is why you want to limit the frequency to something reasonable.

This, by the way, is why VFDs can be used for smaller HP motors. In essence, they are small phase converters but with a twist. They are not designed to have heaters or other devices that act as switches between their outputs and the motor. For this same reason, they cannot be used to run multiple motors that turn on and off the way you would use a traditional phase converter. The one exception is Phase Perfect. It is built on VFD principles, but it does this with a patented algorithm and technology.

Hopefully this helps explain a bit of how a VFD works and explain your question a bit.

 

[Richard Hed]

Richard... Honestly, input frequency probably doesn't really matter, and here is the reason why....

VFDs work by rectifying the AC inputs so that they can create a high voltage DC bus inside the VFD. That bus has some big capacitors on it. Anyhow, the computer *generates* the three phase outputs for the motor from that DC bus. It controls speed by changing the output frequency and voltage, constantly monitoring these to manage the desired speed.

Herein lies part of the consideration when configuring the VFD (aka, programming it). Frequency is dv/dt, which is a nice way of mathematically saying "the change of voltage in time." The higher the frequency, the faster change in voltage. Now, the problem with that is that this is hard on the insulation of traditional motors if they are not built for VFD use. The net result is that you have minute arcs between windings. Over time, these can get worse and eventually result in a solid arc that burns out the motor. This is why you want to limit the frequency to something reasonable.

This, by the way, is why VFDs can be used for smaller HP motors. In essence, they are small phase converters but with a twist. They are not designed to have heaters or other devices that act as switches between their outputs and the motor. For this same reason, they cannot be used to run multiple motors that turn on and off the way you would use a traditional phase converter. The one exception is Phase Perfect. It is built on VFD principles, but it does this with a patented algorithm and technology.

Hopefully this helps explain a bit of how a VFD works and explain your question a bit.

Thanx, it helps. So . . . it should be totally safe to simply hook up and go?

 

[Toymaker]

I have gotten this huanyang VFD 1Ph to 3PH 220V. The manual is not made for ONE VFD--it's made for all the types they make. Thus they complicate the possibility of easily understanding how to wire the damned thing. Actually, I thimpfk it is quite simple (until you try to read their ****** pamphlet). Hook the two 220V wires to the two correct hookups. the third (ground) apparently does not need to be attached. Then hook up the three 3PH wires to the appropriate terminals. Apparently no need for the ground? So, my big problem is the grounds--Anyone know what is supposed to be attached?

Also, is there a way to check the frequency? I use 60 hz in USA. Does it have to be set someway? and if so, how does one go about that?

In general, the 220 VAC input frequency of either 50 or 60 Hz wont matter since the input AC goes into a rectifier and is changed to DC. The electronics inside your VFD then changes that DC voltage back into an AC voltage that drives your motor at whatever frequency you set the VFD.

Ground wire is not absolutely necessary for the VFD to work properly, but not using the ground could create a shock hazard,...no way to be sure without a full set of schematics.

Here's a partial schematic of a 3-phase VFD showing only the power sections; the parts generating the variable frequency are not shown.

 

[Richard Hed]

In general, the 220 VAC input frequency of either 50 or 60 Hz wont matter since the input AC goes into a rectifier and is changed to DC. The electronics inside your VFD then changes that DC voltage back into an AC voltage that drives your motor at whatever frequency you set the VFD.

Ground wire is not absolutely necessary for the VFD to work properly, but not using the ground could create a shock hazard,...no way to be sure without a full set of schematics.

Here's a partial schematic of a 3-phase VFD showing only the power sections; the parts generating the variable frequency are not shown.
View attachment 140434

Ah, this helps. However, even this schematic shows 3 wire input for US 220V which I have at my place too. US 220 is two limbs each of 110 using a neutral or ground. The neutral being common to both the branches which means . . . 3 . . . wires! However, the VFD has only two terminals and maybe an unnecessary ground.

I'm not sure how that works. When I set this up, I WILL check for shockability before useing.

 

[jumps4]

Richard
Here is a video that shows the equipment ground connection ( the green wires)
This is for safety.
Steve

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...0BEDC50201411AFA79020BEDC50201411AF&FORM=VIRE

 

[Richard Hed]

Richard
Here is a video that shows the equipment ground connection ( the green wires)
This is for safety.
Steve

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...0BEDC50201411AFA79020BEDC50201411AF&FORM=VIRE

Thanx, this was really helpful, specially as I found a bundle more Huanyang vids that explained more stuff. There IS some important programming that is relatively easy IF you have good instructions. Like I said elsehwere, the Huanyang pamphlet is worse that sukky. The paper wouldn't even be good to light a fire or a cigar with.

PS, your icon is going to the beach?

 

[chuck_laws]

Richard
Here is a video that shows the equipment ground connection ( the green wires)
This is for safety.
Steve

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...0BEDC50201411AFA79020BEDC50201411AF&FORM=VIRE

This is absolutely correct. You MUST use grounds with a VFD! As Richard said it is for safety which is obvious and essential to your long life, but it also provides a ground path for the nasty voltage and current noise spikes and transients that VFD's and motors may create. Not installing a good ground will certainly impact the lifespan and performance of a VFD system. DO NOT confuse Ground and Neutral connections...the only place they should be tied together is at the power entry point from your hydro provider in your building. Also, a separate ground from each piece, i.e. the motor and VFD should be run to a common ground point - do not run a wire from motor to VFD and then to ground. Always! use a separate insulated wire. Stranded wire is best for this purpose since it offers lower impedance to the high frequency noise.

Also, not all VFD's require a neutral with 220 wiring...you must read the spec sheet and manual. When in doubt hire an electrician for your own safety

 

[Richard Hed]

This is absolutely correct. You MUST use grounds with a VFD! As Richard said it is for safety which is obvious and essential to your long life, but it also provides a ground path for the nasty voltage and current noise spikes and transients that VFD's and motors may create. Not installing a good ground will certainly impact the lifespan and performance of a VFD system. DO NOT confuse Ground and Neutral connections...the only place they should be tied together is at the power entry point from your hydro provider in your building. Also, a separate ground from each piece, i.e. the motor and VFD should be run to a common ground point - do not run a wire from motor to VFD and then to ground. Always! use a separate insulated wire. Stranded wire is best for this purpose since it offers lower impedance to the high frequency noise.

Also, not all VFD's require a neutral with 220 wiring...you must read the spec sheet and manual. When in doubt hire an electrician for your own safety

The manual and spec sheet are virtually worthless. THat's why I am asking you all for advice. I have downloaded a ton of vids found because of the advice of persons above. Thanx to all.

 

[Richard Hed]

I'm building a cross slide for a Grizzly G4003g that will be a couple inches longer than the one that came with it. The important reason is that I want some T-slots to enable attaching other tools and accessories. It will end up being about 3/8ths inch thicker than the present one. It is straight forward, a couple things needed to add but still nothing special. However, Idon't know about how to design the cross slide gib. The parallelogram part is not the problem. It's 'is the part thicker at one end'? problem. I would thimpfk that it would be a degree or half a degree slanted. Naturally, the cross slide way would have to have a like slant. Am I right? does any one know anything about this?

 

[mcostello]

I bought a Huanyang Vfd and it would not save the settings I entered. Went with rotary converter.

 

[Richard Hed]

I bought a Huanyang Vfd and it would not save the settings I entered. Went with rotary converter.

what about returning it? Maybe ;you had some setting wrong. the dog-damned pamphlet was WORSE than worthles..

 

[ShopShoe]

Richard,

Can you measure the parts of your existing cross-slide assembly to determine what is what?

When I made a tapered gib assembly from scratch, I modeled it it CAD. I can't remember whether you do CAD? (This was not for your lathe, however.)

To manually machine the parts, you can put one part in the mill so it will cut the desired taper, then use that part to set up the mating part for cutting. Obviously, there are some mental gymnastics to keep track of up and down and front and back and in and out. And you need to make a little big to allow for finishing that takes off more metal.

Another thing I had done was make the gib "longer" than required, then trim the ends to get the final-fit size.

I don't know if this will help, but good luck.

--Shopshoe

 

[mcostello]

I returned the VFD with no problems. My experience with Far East sellers is that the quality may not always be there but the service has been top notch, of course I remain polite and do not "loose it."

 

[Richard Hed]

Richard,

Can you measure the parts of your existing cross-slide assembly to determine what is what?

When I made a tapered gib assembly from scratch, I modeled it it CAD. I can't remember whether you do CAD? (This was not for your lathe, however.)

To manually machine the parts, you can put one part in the mill so it will cut the desired taper, then use that part to set up the mating part for cutting. Obviously, there are some mental gymnastics to keep track of up and down and front and back and in and out. And you need to make a little big to allow for finishing that takes off more metal.

Another thing I had done was make the gib "longer" than required, then trim the ends to get the final-fit size.

I don't know if this will help, but good luck.

--Shopshoe

I have been thimpfking about it and figure the saddle most likely has the taper in it rather than the cross slide. However, to know for sure I would have to disassemble it to see. I don't want to disassemble it at this time so I am going to let it go. I am also thimpfking that I won't need a longer gib anyway.

Here is a drawing.

 

[ajoeiam]

I have been thimpfking about it and figure the saddle most likely has the taper in it rather than the cross slide. However, to know for sure I would have to disassemble it to see. I don't want to disassemble it at this time so I am going to let it go. I am also thimpfking that I won't need a longer gib anyway.

Here is a drawing.

Hmmmmmmm - - - wondering - - - - how are you - - or how did you cut that 59 degree + some minutes of arc angle?

 

[Richard Hed]

Hmmmmmmm - - - wondering - - - - how are you - - or how did you cut that 59 degree + some minutes of arc angle?

Well, just round up to the nearest degree on the drawing. I don't know how that came out that way. Maybe I can edit it, but as for myself, I don't sweat the small stuff and as I made the drawing for myself, I know what it is supposed to be. Just use a 60deg cutter.

 

[ajoeiam]

Well, just round up to the nearest degree on the drawing. I don't know how that came out that way. Maybe I can edit it, but as for myself, I don't sweat the small stuff and as I made the drawing for myself, I know what it is supposed to be. Just use a 60deg cutter.

Sorta what I thought was the case - - - - thought I'd ask just in case there was some 'interesting' machining going on to get that kinky angle.