End Mills?

[radar]

Hello folks,

For model engineering work, what do you prefer, HSS or Carbide end mills?
Collets or end mill holders or both?

Thanks!

 

[dennisa49]

Good day Radar,
I asked the same thing recently.
The info offered was that HSS is the way to go with a small machine.
The rake and larger radius on the carbide tools require a fair amount of power
to cut properly.
I use collets, they work well for me. SX2P milling machine.
Hope this helps,
Dennis

 

[xpylonracer]

Hi Radar

I use both HSS and Carbide on aluminum but mainly carbide on steel, they don't loose the cutting edge as HSS does.

xpylonracer

 

[Brian Rupnow]

Either will work for you. Carbide lasts longer, but it doesn't have the dead sharp cutting edges that HSS does. If I'm milling steel, I use an endmill holder. If I'm milling aluminum, I often hold the milling cutter in the chuck.--I get cursed and ridiculed for this, but it's quick, it works, and it saves changing out the endmill holder and the chuck 15 times in a day. In a real production shop environment you would probably get fired for doing that. In a home hobby environment I have built 23 engines and numerous devices to run with the engines, and never had an issue with holding end mills less than 1/2" diameter in the chuck, when milling aluminum.

 

[Hopper]

I use el cheapo HSS cutters from Hong Kong sellers on that ubiquitous auction site and hold them directly in the 3 jaw chuck of my lathe. No problems. Quality is excellent. They must produce them by the millions in China to keep all their factories supplied. They are so cheap I dont even bother to sharpen them, just buy more. I've milled up to 1" thick steel plate this way.

 

[Dalee]

Hi,

Start with HSS. If you want really cheap, I find the M2Al HSS works pretty well in the home shop. It's not M42, but it is noticeably better than plain M2. Otherwise, look for Korean or former East European made tools. They tend to sell for a bit of a discount over more popular name brands.

Nothing wrong with carbide end mills. They will cut as well on light benchtop machines as they do in 10,000lbs machining centers. But they are costly compared to HSS tools. Sooner or later you will buy some. Buy as needed and only what you need.

Collets work perfectly under all conditions when properly cared for and tightened properly. I've used them in my little G0704 and in machining centers under heavy production speeds and feeds. Never had a problem. And our little, low powered machines can't even begin to apply enough power to cause a collet trouble.

Endmill holders have an advantage if you want to use large shank tools, like 1" (25mm) or bigger. Or need extra reach to get in to deep spots. But there is no advantage to them for home users as a general rule.

Dale

 

[Blogwitch]

For years have used tungsten cutters for any hard work stuff, only use HSS on Ali for deep cuts as all other materials will soon dull HSS tooling (and that includes brass). The tungsten (very good quality) have remained razor sharp, it pays to buy good if you want a long life out of them.

I do use the cheaper smaller Chinese tungsten cutters, 3mm and below, but only as throw away items because they soon break if you overload them.

http://richontools.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=15_60

I have also started to buy them in bulk from Ali Express, I can get 10 x 1/8" tungsten ball mills for about 4 ukpounds, including delivery. They do the job.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10P..._1&btsid=afc2a1ed-c0a1-436e-90bb-82abe5e2b13d

The only downside for tungsten is if you drop one, even from a small height, it is usually a throw away job then as they chip very easily.

Only ever use spindle collets now and NEVER had one slip, ER types lose too much throat depth and can cause the cutters to cut too large because of cutter deflection because they are mounted too far away from the spindle nose.

Just my observations.

John

 

[deverett]

Thanks for those links, John.
Some very low cost cutters there compared to UK places, even if they are used only once or twice before binning them. If I have to pay for postage to Ireland, some tools need a mortgage to be able to afford them.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

 

[Blogwitch]

Exactly my way of thinking Dave, glad they helped.
Don't know what the postal charges are to your wonderful green island.

BTW, Richon also do HSS and tungsten in much larger sizes still at reasonable prices, cheap enough to be disposable.

John

 

[Wizard69]

I haven't done a lot of engine building yet, simply don't have a home shop fully or even partially equipped to do so. However any machining I do at work is comparable to engine building as it is all maintenance related. I'm basically of the opinion that you need to learn to use both and figure out for your self when one make sense over the other.

As mentioned above HSS can last a very long time in aluminum so carbide is hardly required. Carbide can work in steel well but sometimes it is far cheaper to buy HSS and grind it for a particular solution. For example need to cut a groove for a snap ring or O-ring, there are carbide solutions out there but it would never pay to use them in in a model engineering shop.

 

[radar]

Thanks for the input everyone- I was considering using the TTS system for end mill holders and collet chucks.

As far as the end mills were concerned, I think that I will go with HSS and Carbide. It seems that those two work well together for me most of the time.

 

[workshopman]

I realise that I am going slightly off course but as the use of HSS end mills has been mentioned a number of times there are likely to be those who would be interested in the end mill sharpening device that I recently made public on a video.

With one exception, it is the most viewed of all the videos (already nearly 5000 viewings) also my website stats show that the drawings for the device are now the most viewed.

A link to the video can be found on this page http://www.homews.co.uk/page121.html which also has the drawings for making it.

Providing you have all the materials to hand it should be possible to make it in an afternoon (6 Hours at the most) if using the simpler mounting method

Harold Hall

 

[Wizard69]

Thanks for the input everyone- I was considering using the TTS system for end mill holders and collet chucks.

I haven't used TTS myself but have considered making some DIY holders in that pattern. I'm not sure if it is worth the effort though.

As far as the end mills were concerned, I think that I will go with HSS and Carbide. It seems that those two work well together for me most of the time.

Eventually you will get a feel for what works best for you for a particular operation. I know some will claim that carbide chips or damages easier but that is debatable from what I've seen, often the quality of the materials makes a huge difference. In other words cheap carbide isn't much better than cheap HSS.

If you happen to be machining alloys that work harden it really doesn't seem to make much difference life span wise if you recut chips that are now hard. HSS or carbide will chip, the obvious thing here is that you can regrind HSS in a modest work shop. I say this because we work with a lot of stainless at work and the key to tool life is preventing recutting chips. Admittedly a carbide end mill can shatter fairly easily when recutting chips but a HSS mill can end up useless even if it is in one piece.

In any event I just don't think it makes a big difference when it comes to end mills. Insert based tooling is another matter of course. Due to the size of indexable end mills they are less frequently used or even needed in a home shop. The one thing that is pretty obvious though is that buying inserts is cheaper than buying solid end mills over the long run.

 

[bazmak]

I agree,both have their uses,to say one over the other is foolish
When cutting steel I prefer to rough out with carbide and save
my Hss for finishing

 

[Cjofaw]

Drill chucks and press spindles dont typically like holding end mills when Making cuts from side to side. Using an endmill like you would use a drill is usually fine though in a drill chuck. A boring head that is indexable would be fine to use in a drill press but they cost more than a ball nose end mill. In the end if your vise allows travel in the x and y axis its possible but its alot of ware and tare on your equipment. If you do do it and your equipment allows take very light cuts and several passes. Not hogging the material out in one pass of the cutter.

 

[Buchanan]

I don't know if this survey really applies but it is interesting.
http://blog.cnccookbook.com/2016/11/29/cnccookbook-2016-end-mill-survey-winners-drumroll-please/

Buchanan