Cylinder Liner?

[Arnak]

Hi Folks,

No it's not quite the which material should I use but close. ;D

I am constructing a 3.5" Virginia and am making the steam cylinders from scratch to save money on castings from Cast Iron.

I was doing quite well until I overdrilled the exhaust port outlet hole and ran into the cylinder wall, put a hole in it.

Yeah I know really stupid of me after attempting to take good care not to do so. :-[

What I need to ask is what would be the best material to use to make a cylinder liner in this case to use once I have overbored the bore?

What would be a reasonable thickness to make the liner, the bore is supposed to be 1 1/16" dia but there is a bit of room left to bore it oversize to take a liner.

Thanks for any advice.

Arnak

 

[Jasonb]

An iron liner will be fine, aim for a wall thickness of 1/16" to 3/32".

J

 

[Arnak]

Hi Jason,

Thanks very much for the advice. ;D

A final question, how should I install the liner, press fit or loctite or ..?

Thanks,

Arnak

 

[rleete]

I'd use both. Light press fit, with a bit of loctite to ensure it stays put.

 

[steamer]

Loctite won't hold up to steam temperatures. Would suggest slip fit/light press fit and viton Orings to seal .

Dave

 

[Jasonb]

My traction engine liner is retained with Loctite648 which will be good for in excess of the 100psi working pressure as it goes to 175DegC.

J

 

[n4zou]

Black iron plumbing pipe will work just fine as a liner. Lowe's sells it by the foot and will be happy to cut it to length. Carefully measure the outside diameter marking the spots you'll be taking your measurement. Now freeze it overnight and measure it again to see how much it shrunk. While your waiting for the pipe to freeze measure the ID of your casting again marking the place where you took the reading. Now submerge it in water and bring it to a rolling boil. After boiling for an hour to make sure it has stabilised thoroughly at boiling temperature measure it again and see how much it expanded. Now machine your parts for a press fit at the coldest and hottest readings. You'll need to freeze and boil your parts and be ready to quickly press them together while they are frozen and hot. An alternative to above would be using Acraglas epoxy to bond the liner in the casting the same way a gunsmith uses it to bond a barrel liner in a 22 rifle or pistol with a worn out barrel. Here are detailed instructions for that process which would be the same as your cylinder liner.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...YwMiObr3PKcNg3luQ&sig2=DUE6Vi9RTAl-MNIUi9ggCA

Acraglas source http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1033/Product/ACRAGLAS-reg-

 

[Arnak]

Hi Folks,

Thanks very much for all the replies.

I particularly like the loctite idea as that seems easiest to do.

Except for the price of course..... £32 for 50ml in the UK plus delivery.

I can get the CI for about £10 including delivery.

Still, it's a good job that I hadn't brought the castings for the cylinders at £100 plus.

Arnak

 

[Blogwitch]

Arnak,

You will require nowhere near that quantity. A 10ml bottle will even be too much.

By searching about, you should be able to find a third party 10ml equivalent for about five or six squid.


John

 

[lazylathe]

If you have a hardware store or automotive store close to you they usually sell the small
tubes of loctite.
they last a long time!!!

Andrew

 

[Arnak]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the advice re the loctite, I've got the normal one but not the high temp version, I'll have a look around to see if I can get a smaller quantity.

Arnak

 

[steamer]

My traction engine liner is retained with Loctite648 which will be good for in excess of the 100psi working pressure as it goes to 175DegC.

J

OK,,,,I run 165 psi....377 F ....saturated. And that is too much.....at least for me

At 400 F, it will let go...if my engine gets any superheat at all...it would be toast

I run close fits with Viton O-rings....

Dave

 

[gmac]

Arnak;
Here's one source for the smaller quantity (5 ml) bottle;

http://www.skydrive.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=899788

Cheers Garry

 

[Blogwitch]

Plus an alternative, go down the page a bit

http://www.sylmasta.com/acatalog/Retaining.html


John

 

[Maryak]

Having lined several bored out cast iron steam cylinders the press/shrink needs to be a minimum of 0.001"/1" diameter otherwise when it gets hot it starts to move with the piston and then having successfully covered the ports at the end of the stroke it does not go in the opposite direction.

Shrink fitting is a much better option than press fitting but not everyone has access to liquid nitrogen.

Ask me how I know and then after I have broadened your vocabulary; you will be convinced not to do what I ONCE did at 0.005"/1" diameter.

Best Regards
Bob

 

[Arnak]

Hi Guys,

Thanks very much for all the help. ;D

Especially for the cheaper loctite, I've ordered it already.

Just a question, how can the liner move once it is in place when the end covers (If a tight fit to the end of the liner) would hold it in place from slipping back and forwards?

Arnak

 

[Maryak]

Just a question, how can the liner move once it is in place when the end covers (If a tight fit to the end of the liner) would hold it in place from slipping back and forwards?

Arnak

On a repair job at 12":1' the liner is shorter than the cylinder by the depth of the steam ports top and bottom. Wooden stops are placed in the bottom of the cylinder before the shrunken liner is introduced and then it's normal to wait some 12 hours or more to fully even out the temperature and to make sure the expansion does not crack the original cylinder.

Best Regards
Bob

 

[Arnak]

Hi Bob,

OK, got that.

With mine I had decided to make the liner a slip fit with loctite to hold it in place.

I am going to make it a full length less the depth of the inset on the cylinder cover and file a slot where the steam ports come at each end.

So that should provide a positive lock lengthways in case the loctite becomes soft, not that I expect it to.

Does this seem like a reasonable plan?

Thanks,

Arnak

 

[Jasonb]

Personally I would run it the full length of the cylinder casting, that way the gasket for the end covers will seal the ends and you still won't have any issues with it moving lengthways. Just mill the slots for the steam into the thing once its bonded in like this

J

 

[Arnak]

Hi Jason,

Yeah, that's what I had in mind, thanks for clarifying that. ;D

Another question springs to mind if I may?

The outside of the cylinder is scooped out where the insulation would go, only now with a reduced thickness I don't think I can get away with much of a cut out for the insulation.

So would it be OK to just add the insulation around the outside of the cylinder and as I planned to do, just cover with a brass sheet as I have seen on another VIrginia?

Thanks,

Arnak