Calculating Hole Size For Odd Thread Sizes

[ajoeiam]

The BSP denomination has long since been replaced by an ISO denomination.
https://flexiblemeasuring.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/support/manual/3 pitch/3.5_iso/3.05.pdfhttps://flexiblemeasuring.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/support/manual/3 pitch/3.5_iso/3.06.19.pdfhttps://flexiblemeasuring.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/support/manual/3 pitch/3.5_iso/3.07.pdfhttps://flexiblemeasuring.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/support/manual/3 pitch/3.5_iso/3.08.pdf
and more than most can use.
https://flexiblemeasuring.com/manual/

Interesting - - - - have you actually read the spec?

The ISO refers to the previous - - - - that's the BSP spec.
(That's the way specifications work - - - supposed little changes but always more visible effort (and thereby $$$$) by the boffins!)

 

[ajoeiam]

ajoeiam: Write to me - or set-up a separate thread for "Purchase/Loan/Exchange"??
A simple thing. Fred in USA wants a thingamajig, available in UK but cheaper bought in the UK. Harry buys it and sends to Fred. Fred covers Harry's costs. And vici-versa?
Drop me a line and I'll get a UK cost of whatever bits you think are cheaper here. No probs!
Only thing, you are "buying blind". We get so much Asian tooling that is the size, but is cheap, so doesn't have "US/British/German/Swedish etc." steel quality, tempering, etc. All sold by local firms in the UK, so we don't know what we are getting. "You pays ya money and takes the bits". Most of Europe has been flooded with cheap stuff, because local industry has been closed by "costs" and "Regulation".
Sometimes Customs costs are the major item... so it needs research. I have considered getting stuff from USA via 3&@y, etc. , then found the US Postal shipping cost to be prohibitive - because the customs duty, fees & handling charges are big.
So "Check, Check, Check."... before you buy and ship?
K2

Oh yes - - - ALL cost will be quite closely checked!!!

Thanks for the willingness to be involved!!!

 

[ajoeiam]

What's "prohibitive"? Try sending anything to the USA and avoiding customs then chances are it'll just "disappear". Sending to another EU country is one of the few things I like about the EU. No trouble, no hassle and no paperwork.

Sending by a recognized transport company makes life easier but it isn't cheap.

Buying from China for no other reason than "cheap" and chances are you will get rubbish. Same applies to buying cheap from any country.

When buying from and selling to another country try taking a good look at the exchange rate. To me the USD $ goes up and down and I'm sure Americans think the same about my currency.

https://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/

No way of avoiding customs!!!!!!!!!

The EU is one of the few areas of the world where there is harmonized (well sort of - - - I can point out areas where it is NOT harmonized!!!) trade.

A recognized transport company will also mean your costs are at maximum (personal experience).

There are some tricks to reducing costs but they tend to work better with larger quantities of stuff (pallet load quantities is where this kind of thing kicks in most of the time!).

The exchange rates have always varied. Getting a decent exchange rate for moderate and larger amounts is easy.
Its getting a decent rate for say under $300 (USD or CAN) is bloody difficult!!

 

[ajoeiam]

Regarding Surveying.

My town is in a phase right now where they are trying to document everything. I talked to a surveyer who was working in my yard last year.

Everybody is using GPS now, so actual measurements are not what they used to be.

However, the guy in my yard gave me a long explanation of all the reasons why GPS doesn't work all the time (and he was a young guy, too.)

--ShopShoe

Hand held or auto GPS works from 3 satellite connections.
Surveyors IIRC need to have a 4 satellite connection (not as easy to have 4 in the reception area).
IIRC for very high accuracy you need even more satellites to be connected - - - - ie RTK (used in farming) and now you can work to within one cm.

Dunno what accuracy the surveyors used to be held to.
Know that they used a theodolite where (again IIRC) accuracy was in the +/- 5 or maybe 10 seconds of arc range (bloody tough to do in a mechanical system!!!!) and using a 'chain' to measure - - - that's work dunno what kind of accuracy was considered normal.
Would bet that today most all one needs to know is what buttons to push on the instrument!

 

[ajoeiam]

Hi Threadman. You raise a good couple of points there. I should have thought more about what I was writing.
Yes of course I was talking of paying customs duty, as we should all do. (Like taxes). But there is a quirk. If something goes from country A to B, you pay one lot of customs. From A to C to B should be more customs duty. - But sometimes it is more, sometimes less.... I don't know why or how, but I have bought from the USA and paid less than direct from other sources, yet products didn't originate there. Probably the other thing you raise is the simple reason. Exchange rates.
I once booked a holiday cruise and hotels in Hawaii, using a local tourist agency there, for 2/3rds the cost of purchasing from UK agencies. And when we got there found we had paid less than most others (Who all seemed proud to have paid more than others... as if the cost of the holiday naturally makes it better?). They thought I must be cheating, or doing some tax fiddle, or something? - But I figured it was just monetary exchange rates, as Mastercard allowed me to buy in dollars and pay in £ sterling? Of course, that bill didn't incur customs "Import duty" nor shipping costs. And Maybe the US Travel agent was on a different commission to the UK agencies? But I saved a whole £1500 on that part of the holiday, 15 years ago.
By "prohibitive", I meant that compared to total cost of buying "at home", the "cheaper" parts from USA would have cost me in total more than double, because of the US Postal and Customs charges. The US postal service quoted it as a charge to handle the payment to UK customs, even though the Customs payment for import duty to the UK was a tiny fraction of the value they were charging against "Customs duty and charges". Maybe it was a real cost they were covering, but because of this charge, I chose to not pay anything and buy parts already in the UK. ($25 for the part, 20% Import duty to UK, 6% duty to US Gov't, and a UK part at £50 worked out cheaper than the $58 charge by US Postal service for "Customs", on top of the $20 transport cost).
I hope that clarifies the "prohibitive" charges I experienced...
K2

I think what you're referring to would be items that (your A to C to B) have preferential rates between two bodies and so when A to B results in fees and even if B to C are no fees with A to C incurring 'no fees' then A to C is cheaper than any other combination.

Its goofy and frustrating but these are some of the things that you have to keep on top of when you're importing.

The lower limit, when fees start getting charged, also changes depends upon even your shipping company.

DHL will always arrange for you to pay - - - that way they can levy their fee.
Some shipping companies don't - - - but these are few and far between.

So even with no fees and no added taxes - - - you can incur fees.

(Ain't life grand for the rip off artists!!! (They are such imo anyway!!!))

Re: your holiday - - - I wouldn't count on similar today.

I'm now having to pay sales taxes on even online product - - - - vis a vis Netflicks.

I used to say that 99 cents out of every dollar was wasted by government.
I now say that 105 cents out of every dollar IS wasted by government!!

 

[ajoeiam]

I hope that clarifies the "prohibitive" charges I experienced...

Yes and no ☺ I knew a purchasing manager that was often praised for buying cheap. I never could understand that managemen never thought about how much he cost everybody else with extra inspection, assembly problems in production and customer complaints.

Buying "cheap" often costs more than people realise. The real issue is the total cost at the end of the day. I'm not saying buy expensive but more thought should be given to cost and time saved.

Many of my customers find fast delivery more important than the actual price. A stop in for example off shore oil costs a fortune.

My rule of thumb has been that if I only use the product occasionally (maybe 2 x per year or less) and those uses are not 'critical' then I buy on price.
If I make my living using the tools - - - I'm buying quality.

I will qualify - - - I bought a set of vernier micrometers 0 - 12 with standards.
Also bought some used TESA mics (o-1, 1-2, and a 2-3) from a friend who quit machining (his company treated him very very poorly!!)
I paid more for one of the used Tesa's than I did for the set.
Both have their place though!

 

[Thread man]

Interesting - - - - have you actually read the spec?

The ISO refers to the previous - - - - that's the BSP spec.
(That's the way specifications work - - - supposed little changes but always more visible effort (and thereby $$$$) by the boffins!)

Have I read? I have the specs! I have what could best be described as a small library of thread standards and specifications. Considering what my company does it's as good as necessary. I supose the only difference between me and other "thread nuts" is that I stick to practical rather than theoretical.

It's so like other things in life. What should be simple get made complicated. A bumblebee must be pleased to know that it can't fly only applies to theory. I've seen internal pitch diameter measurement "solutions" thaat require both a bank loan and a laboratory!

Is ISO and BSP thread the same?

ISO metric machine threads should be used instead of pipe threads for mechanical fastenings such as bolts and nuts. BSP (British Standard Pipe) threads, using the Whitworth thread form, have been adopted as the ISO standard for pipe threads, and will hereafter be called out as ISO and not as ESP.

BSP threads are identified with letters each of which represents the type of thread and their associated standards1: G: external and internal parallel (ISO 228, DIN 259) - BSPP. R: external taper (ISO 7, EN 10226, BS 21, JIS B 0203) - BSPT. Rp: Internal parallel (ISO 7-1, EN 10226) - BSPT.

 

[Steamchick]

I worked on a site where the Engineer with theodolite failed alignment of a column, because it was 3cm out of vertical at 10m high. The appropriate engineer worked out the size of shim to pack the base, slackened the bolts, fitted the shim and it was then within spec of "can't measure the error". All columns were aligned, so the job went together. But my string on a bracket with plumb bob didn't agree with "vertical" in gravity terms... Never did understand what I was doing wrong... Maybe my gravity alignment wasn't calibrated or something? Nut the building is still standing after 40 years so it's not too bad.
I wonder how accurately they align Radio masts a couple of hundred m high? Or the Burj Khalifa?
I also met a guy who was surveying using "original Chains". 22 yards long, with long rod links connected by 3 loops to the next, and each link had an inch scale marked on it. They had a hole in the centre, so you could drop one hole on a nail, and make sure the chain was tensioned to get the accurate measurement to the next link after your measurement, then measure back to the appropriate inch mark.... (or something?). He said they were Victorian!
K2

 

[Thread man]

"But my string on a bracket with plumb bob didn't agree with "vertical" in gravity terms... Never did understand what I was doing wrong."

Possible explanation?

The plumb line or vertical line of plumb-bob is influenced by wind force and it will lose its accuracy and precision. Small to moderate lateral movement of plumb-bob can be reduced satisfactorily by damping it in oil or water. If the height of structural member is large, then it is possible to replace the string with a long wire, but substantial cautions should be plasticized so as to avoid imposing risks to the personals working below.

 

[Thread man]

I am from India and I think you erred a little in this assumption.
I know 3 languages Marathi my mother tongue, Hindi the national language and English the universal language. I don't think I am offending anyone by saying English is universal language.
I can understand Gujarati but cannot speak.
Some people take Sanskrit the ancient language in school and can understand it but it is not a everyday use language.
So I think the average will be around 3-4 languages including English.

Regards
Nikhil

I'm almost agreeing with you but re "average" and considering the population of India and the poverty, I very much doubt that as many as are suggested can speak several languages.

"Two-thirds of people in India live in poverty: 68.8% of the Indian population lives on less than $2 a day. Over 30% even have less than $1.25 per day ."

List of languages by number of native speakers in India - Wikipedia

India doees have many languages but how many Indians travel to get to use more than one? The times I've been in India I've met some that couldn't even speak English!

 

[awake]

Poverty keeps people from learning languages?

On my one visit to southern India (Kerala), even in a fairly rural area, there were quite a few different languages spoken by people living just within that area - no need to travel any great distance! And from what I could tell travel by train is not prohibitively expensive. Slow, yes, but affordable.

 

[Thread man]

Poverty keeps people from learning languages?

On my one visit to southern India (Kerala), even in a fairly rural area, there were quite a few different languages spoken by people living just within that area - no need to travel any great distance! And from what I could tell travel by train is not prohibitively expensive. Slow, yes, but affordable.

I wouldn't consider Kerela as being one of the poor parts of India. I don't doubt there were different languages spoken but how many of those you spoke to (assuming you spoke to some) could speak several languages? I'm also wondering how you even knew different laanguages were being spoken.

I've been, among other places in India in Mumbai. The difference from part to part was shocking. Those Indians I've met and talked to and found to be the most arrogant are the "middle class".

 

[awake]

I wouldn't consider Kerela as being one of the poor parts of India. I don't doubt there were different languages spoken but how many of those you spoke to (assuming you spoke to some) could speak several languages? I'm also wondering how you even knew different laanguages were being spoken.

I've been, among other places in India in Mumbai. The difference from part to part was shocking. Those Indians I've met and talked to and found to be the most arrogant are the "middle class".

I spoke to many people, and often specifically asked about languages. I teach Greek among other things, so language is a particular interest of mine. The people I was talking to were seminary students and members of various churches. The seminary students came from many different places in India, so I suppose they had indeed traveled, though again, by train; for some of them coming from the north, it had taken them 2 weeks to get to the seminary in Kerala. I certainly did not ask them about their wealth, but there were indications that at least some of them were barely scraping by. And the church members included a wide range of people, some with relative wealth, but some who appeared to be daily laborers.

I'm not in a position to judge the relative wealth of different parts of India, and certainly claim no expertise on the country; I can only relate my own experience, as you are relating yours. I can also share my experience when I grew up in the Philippines; there it was common for many people to speak at least three languages. Any given barrio (village) would have a unified dialect, but the next village over might be a different dialect - slightly or greatly different, depending. Going into the main city to buy or sell would likely require learning a different dialect / language. And if you think the people in the barrios were middle class ... yeah, no.

Thread man, I am not comfortable with the direction this has gone. It is way off topic, and it feels less than respectful of some of the people who participate in this forum. If you feel the need to "correct" what I have said above, go for it ... I'll be glad to let you have the last word so that we can drop this and move on.

 

[Thread man]

I spoke to many people, and often specifically asked about languages. I teach Greek among other things, so language is a particular interest of mine. The people I was talking to were seminary students and members of various churches. The seminary students came from many different places in India, so I suppose they had indeed traveled, though again, by train; for some of them coming from the north, it had taken them 2 weeks to get to the seminary in Kerala. I certainly did not ask them about their wealth, but there were indications that at least some of them were barely scraping by. And the church members included a wide range of people, some with relative wealth, but some who appeared to be daily laborers.

I'm not in a position to judge the relative wealth of different parts of India, and certainly claim no expertise on the country; I can only relate my own experience, as you are relating yours. I can also share my experience when I grew up in the Philippines; there it was common for many people to speak at least three languages. Any given barrio (village) would have a unified dialect, but the next village over might be a different dialect - slightly or greatly different, depending. Going into the main city to buy or sell would likely require learning a different dialect / language. And if you think the people in the barrios were middle class ... yeah, no.

Thread man, I am not comfortable with the direction this has gone. It is way off topic, and it feels less than respectful of some of the people who participate in this forum. If you feel the need to "correct" what I have said above, go for it ... I'll be glad to let you have the last word so that we can drop this and move on.

"Thread man, I am not comfortable with the direction this has gone. It is way off topic, "
Neither am I. I posted a while ago that I didn't understand why it was chosen by someone to write about India and languages and yet it just went from bad to worse and I admit to being part of that. Your seminar students certainly are not "most Indians" as was claimed that most Indians spoke umpteen languages. I'd have no objection what so ever if every post about "languages" was deleted. It has NOTHING to do with what this website should be about. Let's see if we can all shut up about languages LOL

 

[nealeb]

Hand held or auto GPS works from 3 satellite connections.
Surveyors IIRC need to have a 4 satellite connection (not as easy to have 4 in the reception area).
IIRC for very high accuracy you need even more satellites to be connected - - - - ie RTK (used in farming) and now you can work to within one cm.

These days, it's very likely that you will have 6 or more satellites in view at a time and modern GPS processors will combine position data from all these to give a better result. Each satellite, in effect, just allows you to measure how far you are from it so with one satellite you know the size of the sphere you are on - its radius is your distance from the satellite. Two satellites and you can find the circle you are on because two spheres will intersect at a circle. And so on as you add more satellite data. The US GPS, the European Galileo, and the Russian Glonass will typically give 10m or so accuracy - it depends a bit on exactly where in the world you are, how many satellites are being used, and so on.

For more accuracy (and assuming that you are not a Government/military user who has access to the high-accuracy GPS signals which are considerably more better than the ones that the public can receive) then there are other ways to achieve it. For surveying over a known area, you can set up a "base station" which will take in as much satellite data as it can receive, and then average this over a period to get rid of the random errors that exist. Alternatively, it can be placed at a previously-surveyed postion. This can give pretty good accuracy, but if you pick it up and move it, then you have to wait for it to settle again. So the surveyor then wanders around with his electronic surveying pole which is effectively a fairly simple GPS receiver on a stick (to give a known height above ground). The GPS receiver sends its position back to the base station, along with things like the angle of the pole (in case it is not quite vertical). The base station knows exactly where it is and also is receiving satellite signals with the same errors as the portable set so it can calculate the position error in the received signals and correct the data from the surveying pole (or poles - there may be a few of them operating at the same time) so that, effectively, the portable GPS receiver position is known to the same accuracy as the base station. Knowing pole length and angle, you can the find the exact position of the base of the pole. I assume that the agricultural systems (one pass to see where the weeds are, a second pass to spray with weedkiller to almost the individual plant level, for example) also use similar differential GPS

There is another variation (my old boat GPS used this - it's pretty commonly implemented) which uses a geostationary satellite which also "broadcasts" errors that the boat GPS could receive and use to correct the normal satellite signals. This is Satellite Differential GPS (SDGPS) and seems to be good for something like 1-2m accuracy.

When I first moved to this house, I needed a decent "map" of my back garden. The surveyor (working by himself, no assistant needed) set up a fancy electronic theodolite which used some kind of rotating laser sighting arrangement. His "pole" carried a reflector on it which could be seen and identified by the theodolite which could measure vertical and horizontal angle plus range, giving accurate positions for the pole which could then be plotted in 3 dimensions. What it did not give was an accurate location for my garden, but the relative position of all the points measured was good enough for all practical purposes and what I needed - don't need to know where I am to that level of accuracy!