Building one of Rudy's steamers
- Thread starter Deanofid
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Dean,
Great work, a lot of people bore cylinders between centres, it seems like the accepted method. It looks a joy to do with nice square stock compared with a rough ass casting!
I'm struggling to see how the valve - port arrangement works on this - different to the conventional type of slide valves I've seen! ???
Nick
Great work, a lot of people bore cylinders between centres, it seems like the accepted method. It looks a joy to do with nice square stock compared with a rough ass casting!
I'm struggling to see how the valve - port arrangement works on this - different to the conventional type of slide valves I've seen! ???
Nick
Dean,
Like the idea of squares for visually lining up the hole centres, I have never seen that in any other instructions.
You have used what appears to be a piece of 3/8" rod for the boring bar
1. What Material did you use for the boring bar.
2. The boring bar is the full length of the lathe centres. Why not use a much shorter rod for this to minimise flex (or is this not an issue)
3. Was the drill rod used for the cutter hardened after forming to shape.
4. I assume the cross drilled hole for cutter misses the Micrometer when measuring the cutter protrusion?
5. If you needed say a 1" bore, would you then need to go to a larger diameter boring bar rod?
Phil
Like the idea of squares for visually lining up the hole centres, I have never seen that in any other instructions.
You have used what appears to be a piece of 3/8" rod for the boring bar
1. What Material did you use for the boring bar.
2. The boring bar is the full length of the lathe centres. Why not use a much shorter rod for this to minimise flex (or is this not an issue)
3. Was the drill rod used for the cutter hardened after forming to shape.
4. I assume the cross drilled hole for cutter misses the Micrometer when measuring the cutter protrusion?
5. If you needed say a 1" bore, would you then need to go to a larger diameter boring bar rod?
Phil
My.. More replies than I expected!
Zee, Artie, Ron, Nick, Phil, Tel; Thanks a lot for checking in on the thread.
Zee, it's a common machinist's term, pretty sure.
Artie; Just pullin' yer chain, mate.
Ron, Thanks for the tip! I have a small piece of nice beveled edge thick glass around here somewhere, but I've moved things around the shop lately, and can't lay a finger on it. I usually use that, but the real thing would be nice.
Nick, like Tel says, there's a plate that goes on the cylinder. You'll see it down a bit in this post.
Phil;
1) Drill rod, but CRS works just as well.
2) It was just one that I had already made up. Yes, a shorter one would be more rigid. The last cuts have to be pretty shallow with a light duty bar like this one.
3) Yes, hardened and tempered, like if you were making most other kinds of cutting tool.
4) The mic sits right on top of the cross drilled hole when measuring. The hole is a smaller diameter than the pads on a mic, by about half, so it doesn't interfere with measurements.
Another way to do it is to make a gauge from a small rectangular piece of steel. Just cut a slot in the piece of steel to the same depth that the cutter on the boring bar will need to stick out for the final cut. You can judge your other cuts by eye, and when it comes time for the finish cut, use the gauge to set the cutting bit.
5) Oh yeah. I sure would. Use the largest diameter boring bar that is practical.
Tel, you got it!
Here's the piston work;
I started with a kind of over long piece of brass stock for the piston..
Seriously, I don't like cutting working sized pieces of brass off of longer stock, simply because
it's so expensive. By the time I cut a piece long enough for work holding and making the part,
half of it would end up as scrap box material. So, I chucked up a longer piece I had and put the
steady rest on it. Then, when I part it off, the majority of the longer piece will be intact.
This is a mistake. I caught it one second after "just in the nick of time" happened. Got
carried away roughing out. Another piece for the scrap crate. (I'm way beyond scrap box.)
Everyone does this kind of stuff. Some people keep it to themselves...
Try again, and this time, measure well before I think I'm "about there". Here's the good piston
having a hole reamed through it. Then it's parted off.
Then, cut a piece of 1/8" drill rod and thread the end that will go into the cross head slipper.
Then the piece is parted to length.
I put this picture here mainly so I could mention something about the small straight edge rule
behind the threaded piece. When taking pictures of little bits, and you have your camera in
macro mode, if you put something directly behind the object you want to be in focus it will help
the camera "see" it. Sometimes on a thin piece that has a large background, the camera wants
to focus on something other than the small bit. Putting something right behind it, the camera will
pick up on the contrast and focus on the smaller piece. This is just for auto focus cameras.
Next, the steam chest is milled out. A straight forward milling job, and everything was
located by coordinate.
I milled the piece as shown, and when I got to the last .020" or so in the bottom of the slots
you see here, I milled through first the two longer slots, then one short end, letting the thin
web of the other short end hold the waste piece in place. Then, put a little pressure on the
top of the waste piece with a pencil eraser as I cut the final short side. This helps keep the
piece from pinching the end mill as the last cut is taken, which would cause a ruckus.
Then milled the end of the piece that will form the valve slide rod bore and packing guide, and
drilled and tapped the needed holes. Those M&M's just came out of nowhere.
Milled slots in the valve face plate.
Next I turned my attention to the fasteners needed to attach the steam chest, valve plate,
and cover plate to the cylinder. The print shows studs and nuts. I've made enough of those
for the time being, and since I had some 1/8" stainless hex rod, thought I would use cap screws instead.
This one shot tells what was done, but just in case, it was like this; Turn the hex rod down in
steps to the diameter needed for threading. Thread the end. Pull a little more of the rod
through the chuck, and part off the end of the screw to what looks good to me. Then,
(adjust the parting tool, and,) do it seven more times.
This is what I've got so far.
Here's how the cylinder pieces go together;
The cylinder.
The valve face plate.
The steam chest.
The cover plate.
And everything buttoned down tight.
I'm thinking I might make that cover plate again. Not sure yet. It was cut from a stock
piece of 1" wide brass flat, and the edges are rounded over a little. It's also a different kind
of brass than the rest of the cylinder parts, and has a slightly off color.
That's it for now.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Dean
Zee, Artie, Ron, Nick, Phil, Tel; Thanks a lot for checking in on the thread.
Zee, it's a common machinist's term, pretty sure.
Artie; Just pullin' yer chain, mate.
Ron, Thanks for the tip! I have a small piece of nice beveled edge thick glass around here somewhere, but I've moved things around the shop lately, and can't lay a finger on it. I usually use that, but the real thing would be nice.
Nick, like Tel says, there's a plate that goes on the cylinder. You'll see it down a bit in this post.
Phil;
1) Drill rod, but CRS works just as well.
2) It was just one that I had already made up. Yes, a shorter one would be more rigid. The last cuts have to be pretty shallow with a light duty bar like this one.
3) Yes, hardened and tempered, like if you were making most other kinds of cutting tool.
4) The mic sits right on top of the cross drilled hole when measuring. The hole is a smaller diameter than the pads on a mic, by about half, so it doesn't interfere with measurements.
Another way to do it is to make a gauge from a small rectangular piece of steel. Just cut a slot in the piece of steel to the same depth that the cutter on the boring bar will need to stick out for the final cut. You can judge your other cuts by eye, and when it comes time for the finish cut, use the gauge to set the cutting bit.
5) Oh yeah. I sure would. Use the largest diameter boring bar that is practical.
Tel, you got it!
Here's the piston work;
I started with a kind of over long piece of brass stock for the piston..
Seriously, I don't like cutting working sized pieces of brass off of longer stock, simply because
it's so expensive. By the time I cut a piece long enough for work holding and making the part,
half of it would end up as scrap box material. So, I chucked up a longer piece I had and put the
steady rest on it. Then, when I part it off, the majority of the longer piece will be intact.
This is a mistake. I caught it one second after "just in the nick of time" happened. Got
carried away roughing out. Another piece for the scrap crate. (I'm way beyond scrap box.)
Everyone does this kind of stuff. Some people keep it to themselves...
Try again, and this time, measure well before I think I'm "about there". Here's the good piston
having a hole reamed through it. Then it's parted off.
Then, cut a piece of 1/8" drill rod and thread the end that will go into the cross head slipper.
Then the piece is parted to length.
I put this picture here mainly so I could mention something about the small straight edge rule
behind the threaded piece. When taking pictures of little bits, and you have your camera in
macro mode, if you put something directly behind the object you want to be in focus it will help
the camera "see" it. Sometimes on a thin piece that has a large background, the camera wants
to focus on something other than the small bit. Putting something right behind it, the camera will
pick up on the contrast and focus on the smaller piece. This is just for auto focus cameras.
Next, the steam chest is milled out. A straight forward milling job, and everything was
located by coordinate.
I milled the piece as shown, and when I got to the last .020" or so in the bottom of the slots
you see here, I milled through first the two longer slots, then one short end, letting the thin
web of the other short end hold the waste piece in place. Then, put a little pressure on the
top of the waste piece with a pencil eraser as I cut the final short side. This helps keep the
piece from pinching the end mill as the last cut is taken, which would cause a ruckus.
Then milled the end of the piece that will form the valve slide rod bore and packing guide, and
drilled and tapped the needed holes. Those M&M's just came out of nowhere.
Milled slots in the valve face plate.
Next I turned my attention to the fasteners needed to attach the steam chest, valve plate,
and cover plate to the cylinder. The print shows studs and nuts. I've made enough of those
for the time being, and since I had some 1/8" stainless hex rod, thought I would use cap screws instead.
This one shot tells what was done, but just in case, it was like this; Turn the hex rod down in
steps to the diameter needed for threading. Thread the end. Pull a little more of the rod
through the chuck, and part off the end of the screw to what looks good to me. Then,
(adjust the parting tool, and,) do it seven more times.
This is what I've got so far.
Here's how the cylinder pieces go together;
The cylinder.
The valve face plate.
The steam chest.
The cover plate.
And everything buttoned down tight.
I'm thinking I might make that cover plate again. Not sure yet. It was cut from a stock
piece of 1" wide brass flat, and the edges are rounded over a little. It's also a different kind
of brass than the rest of the cylinder parts, and has a slightly off color.
That's it for now.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Dean
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Dean,
Looks like you are nearly there! Thanks for showing the scrap piston - at least it's not just me that does it. I did the same on the pistons for my flame gulper - I might have noticed slightly before you did and I hope I have saved them, if not I'll have to make some new ones! I understand the port arrangement now, is that just to make it easier to drill the angled holes or is there another reason for those voids behind the ports?
Nick
Looks like you are nearly there! Thanks for showing the scrap piston - at least it's not just me that does it. I did the same on the pistons for my flame gulper - I might have noticed slightly before you did and I hope I have saved them, if not I'll have to make some new ones! I understand the port arrangement now, is that just to make it easier to drill the angled holes or is there another reason for those voids behind the ports?
Nick
joe d said:
Ha! That's how I got 'em, Joe. There is a very tiny percentage among us who come up with anything original. Us mortals simply see it, and do it. Thank you for having a look. (BTW, Joe, I have a bunch more stuff about the Taig machines on my website, in the link at the bottom of this post.)
NickG said:
Hi Nick; It's getting there. I'm not a very fast builder. Still eccentric, glands, cylinder ends, valve things, and other bits to be made.
That scrap piston is just a small example of the skeletons in my closet!
Toyman, thank you again for checking in, and for your comments. Much appreciated!
Dean
Mike, if I can find some thin paper gasket stock at the auto parts store, I'll use it. Often what they have is too thick, though. I just want a couple thou.
In the past I've used paper from a grocery sack, or for very thin gaskets like I will need here, the paper from those nice thin kind of small brown flat paper sacks like you get when you buy a greeting card or other flat goods. I cut out the shape I need, then put light oil on it, like 3-in-1, and let it soak in well. Then put the gasket between a couple of thick paper towels and put a weight on top of the whole works over night. It makes a nice oiled gasket. You have to make sure the paper you use is not waxed. If it is, the oil won't soak in.
I made a paper gasket for the crankcase cover on an IC engine I built some years back using plain printer paper given the oil treatment. That worked well too. That particular crankcase has oil in it all the time. Has never leaked a drop.
The parts need to have a good mating surface to start with. The steam chest pieces will be surfaced on a piece of glass first, using 600 to 1200 wet or dry paper. I'll get to that when I'm down to the finish work on this build.
Dean
In the past I've used paper from a grocery sack, or for very thin gaskets like I will need here, the paper from those nice thin kind of small brown flat paper sacks like you get when you buy a greeting card or other flat goods. I cut out the shape I need, then put light oil on it, like 3-in-1, and let it soak in well. Then put the gasket between a couple of thick paper towels and put a weight on top of the whole works over night. It makes a nice oiled gasket. You have to make sure the paper you use is not waxed. If it is, the oil won't soak in.
I made a paper gasket for the crankcase cover on an IC engine I built some years back using plain printer paper given the oil treatment. That worked well too. That particular crankcase has oil in it all the time. Has never leaked a drop.
The parts need to have a good mating surface to start with. The steam chest pieces will be surfaced on a piece of glass first, using 600 to 1200 wet or dry paper. I'll get to that when I'm down to the finish work on this build.
Dean
NickG said:
Nick, I missed answering this part of your post in an earlier reply.
The larger voids in the side of the cylinder are just steam passages that lead from valve plate to the angled holes that go into the ends of the cylinder bore.
I think if it had straight passages from the bore to the valve face, the angle of the hole would eat into the bore kind of like a slot that would end up extending from the end of the cylinder down to about 1/2 the length of the piston, when it was at TDC. Not sure about that, but just looking at it, it would seem so. It's a 5/8" bore in a 1" square piece of stock, so the cylinder wall ends up being only 3/16" thick. Anyway, I'm just kind of following the print. It's how Rudy did it, so... me too.
Dean
Thank you again, Nick.
Well, after the big feed yesterday, I'm still as stuffed as that turkey was, but managed
to waddle into the shop to fiddle up a couple of parts.
This will be the gland for the valve rod. First part I made with the new/old lathe, and what
would have taken me 10 minutes on my trusty Taig, took a couple of hours on the Atlas.
Not because there's anything wrong with the new lathe, but because I'm still getting things
set up on it. Things like centering the tail stock, and like that. So, really, I was playing with
the new toy, and making a part while doing it.
Here, I've turned down a piece of brass flat bar to the profile of the gland nut.
The Atlas doesn't have a micro dial on the carriage. Neither does my Taig. Or my
Craftsman 109. Or my old Webster Whitcomb. Wait... The Webster doesn't even have
a carriage! What's going on here?
Anyway, this shot is just showing how a DI was set up for temporary measurements on
the Atlas carriage, so I would know how long I was making the gland piece. I'll make a depth
stop and DI mount for it soon.
The piece is drilled and reamed for the valve rod.
Then it's parted off. I hadn't used this parting tool and holder for so long I had to think
about it for a few minutes. It was left from a time many years ago when I had a larger lathe.
For some reason, I kept it.
I cleaned up the back of the piece after parting it, and drilled the two mounting holes through
it. I noticed a little movement in the piece as it was being parted off. I watched close. Not
the chuck.. New bearings for this lathe just arrived a couple days ago. Guess I'd better put
them in!
The little 0-80 screws I had on hand that will hold the gland to the steam chest were over long
by about 5/32", so I cut 'em off.
If you need to shorten a screw, run it through a die and leave the die on it while you cut the
screw. Then file the end of the screw down a little to dress it up, and thread it back out of the
die. This way, the die will clean up the boogered thread on the end of the screw, and it will
thread into a hole or nut like it should.
Here's the gland in its place.
Close up pictures sure do tell how much finish work I have ahead of me!
For the valve, I used the waste piece left over from making the steam chest. I knew that
bit would come in handy.
I filed this piece to shape and dimension before putting it in the mill vise to finish it up. It was
pretty close already in the shorter dimensions, and only about 1/8" too long overall, so I just
hit it a few licks with the file to get it to size.
Then, into the milling machine with it, and milled the perimeter of the valve face with a
1/32" end mill. The prints say to use a two piece valve, with the face made of stainless. Well,
I don't have any.
So, it's going to be solid brass.
After the perimeter was milled to depth, I switched to a 1/16" end mill and finished out
the pocket.
Then turned the piece over to make the slots for the rod and adjusting block.
And that's it, for today. Steam chest gland and the valve. Two little parts. A whole
afternoon of goofing off.
Thanks for looking.
Dean
Well, after the big feed yesterday, I'm still as stuffed as that turkey was, but managed
to waddle into the shop to fiddle up a couple of parts.
This will be the gland for the valve rod. First part I made with the new/old lathe, and what
would have taken me 10 minutes on my trusty Taig, took a couple of hours on the Atlas.
Not because there's anything wrong with the new lathe, but because I'm still getting things
set up on it. Things like centering the tail stock, and like that. So, really, I was playing with
the new toy, and making a part while doing it.
Here, I've turned down a piece of brass flat bar to the profile of the gland nut.
The Atlas doesn't have a micro dial on the carriage. Neither does my Taig. Or my
Craftsman 109. Or my old Webster Whitcomb. Wait... The Webster doesn't even have
a carriage! What's going on here?
Anyway, this shot is just showing how a DI was set up for temporary measurements on
the Atlas carriage, so I would know how long I was making the gland piece. I'll make a depth
stop and DI mount for it soon.
The piece is drilled and reamed for the valve rod.
Then it's parted off. I hadn't used this parting tool and holder for so long I had to think
about it for a few minutes. It was left from a time many years ago when I had a larger lathe.
For some reason, I kept it.
I cleaned up the back of the piece after parting it, and drilled the two mounting holes through
it. I noticed a little movement in the piece as it was being parted off. I watched close. Not
the chuck.. New bearings for this lathe just arrived a couple days ago. Guess I'd better put
them in!
The little 0-80 screws I had on hand that will hold the gland to the steam chest were over long
by about 5/32", so I cut 'em off.
If you need to shorten a screw, run it through a die and leave the die on it while you cut the
screw. Then file the end of the screw down a little to dress it up, and thread it back out of the
die. This way, the die will clean up the boogered thread on the end of the screw, and it will
thread into a hole or nut like it should.
Here's the gland in its place.
Close up pictures sure do tell how much finish work I have ahead of me!
For the valve, I used the waste piece left over from making the steam chest. I knew that
bit would come in handy.
I filed this piece to shape and dimension before putting it in the mill vise to finish it up. It was
pretty close already in the shorter dimensions, and only about 1/8" too long overall, so I just
hit it a few licks with the file to get it to size.
Then, into the milling machine with it, and milled the perimeter of the valve face with a
1/32" end mill. The prints say to use a two piece valve, with the face made of stainless. Well,
I don't have any.
So, it's going to be solid brass.
After the perimeter was milled to depth, I switched to a 1/16" end mill and finished out
the pocket.
Then turned the piece over to make the slots for the rod and adjusting block.
And that's it, for today. Steam chest gland and the valve. Two little parts. A whole
afternoon of goofing off.
Thanks for looking.
Dean
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1/32" endmill? That's small! My smallest is 1/16" and I am nervous about feeding it. Nice work.
