Bit of advice if you don't mind

[CrewCab]

Hi guys, I snuck in the back door a couple of days ago (well, the welcome section actually) ........ ;D

I'm looking to install a small lathe and mill in my home workshop; now I'm sure this subject has been done to death many times but, I've a fair idea which will suit me, both from "available space" and "depth of pocket" perspectives plus I realise tooling etc will probably cost almost as much

However, I would welcome comments from the folk out there that are familiar with these type of machines and any guidance you can offer.

1) Mill ......... my choice here seems to be fairly limited to either a mini mill or a Sieg x2, from my research I believe the X2 with an added belt drive kit is my best option.

2) Lathe ........... It's going to be a small Chinese one, but there are 2 or three which seem to fit the bill, each having certain advantages / disadvantages ..........

DB-7V

Comet

9x20

Out of the three, the DB7 was my favourite, but it lacks "T" slots on the cross slide, the Conquest is nice particularly with the powered cross feed, then we have the old faithful 9x20, I like the idea of a belt and less electronics and it can be had a better price than the others, plus a bit more capacity .......... bit of a minefield ???

Any advice welcomed

Thanks

Dave

 

[DickDastardly40]

Dave,

Does the DB7 come with the change gears as standard? Also no threading indicator that I can see. The speed range and variable speed looks good, 700W (a bit under 1hp) motor not bad. The lack of T slots on the cross slide won't present a problem if you don't intend to mill on the lathe and don't need a rear tool post.

Comet, 100 RPM a bit quick for manual threading on a coarse thread for me, no 4 jaw as standard, same question about change gears, powerful for size. Powered cross feed a definite plus in my book

920, a few here have them I believe, only 6 speeds, though has change gearbox. Lower power than the other 2 (3/4 hp)

This is my opinion and it's worth what you paid for it, some may have specific experience of the actual machines. I think Chester is selling as an Ebay store now, I don't know if the prices there are different.

Regards

Al

 

[tel]

The X2 by all means, but definitely the belt drive kit - I made my kit about a year ago and it sat on the shelf until a few weeks ago, waiting for yet another gear to break. It did, and the kit got fitted - the machine came alive.

 

[CrewCab]

Following a bit of advice from Al here's a bit more info.

My workshop is half of a single car garage, about 10 feet square, that also houses quite a bit of other stuff, hand and power tools, woodworking gear, bench drill etc (although the table saw, radial arm and bandsaw are in the other garage) there's also side taken up with drawers and shelving plus a large toolbox.
Concrete floor and brick walls so benches are built in and pretty sturdy, but I can modify these quite easily, access is through the utility room so I would struggle with anything 2 or perhaps 3 people can't lift, although I do have an engine crane and a HD Sack Truck ................ plus 2 large sons (6'-4") ;D

I have been keeping my eye open for second hand equipment for about 6 months and to press it always seems to elude me, or go for silly prices. As of last night I was bidding on a Sieg X2 on "that well known auction site" but when the price difference between that (which was out of warranty) and a new one was less than £50 I gave up
The reason I'm asking now is that the annual Model Engineering Exhibition in our area is in about 2 weeks time and usually bargains are to be had ....... so forewarned is forearmed so to speak.

As for what I will "try" and produce .......... very simple to start in order to re-learn forgotten skills, I do need a few bushes and adaptor plates at present but from there I will try and progress to the best of my ability, however I doubt I would need anything much bigger than I've refereed to above.

Budget wise I was looking in the region of around £1500 to include basic tooling, but ........... if Mrs CC pops in don't mention that ;D ;D

Hope this clears things up a bit 8)

Thanks

Dave

 

[CrewCab]

I must learn to type quicker ;D

I believe the DB7 comes with change gears, but as threading is a bit of a "dark art" to me at present I have no idea about a "threading indicator", perhaps you could explain a little more

Also the DB8 seems a worthwhile contender.

Most of the machines, under various guises are available from a few diffent UK outlets, however the Chester web site seems to me a useful reference point, plus their prices and service seem fair.
Thanks gang.

Dave

 

[DickDastardly40]

A threading indicator is most often situated on the right hand side of the saddle and can be seen on the 920. It engages the leadscrew and shows the relationship between the leadscrew and the rotational position of the chuck.

Provided everthing is set correctly, you start the lathe with the tool at the start of the where the thread is going to be and the correct cut depth for the first pass, engage the leadscrew as the indicator goes past say one and cut the first pass of the thread, when you get to the end you disengage the leadscrew, withdraw the tool. Wind the saddle back to the start put the tool in to the depth of the new cut as the indicator again passes the same point (one in this instance) you engage the leadscrew and the second pass will be on top of the first just deeper. If at a different position the tool will be at a different axial position and you'll get a multi start thread! The method above means that you do not need to stop the motor until your thread is at depth and only works for cutting a metric thread on a metric lead screw or imperial for imperial.

With no indicator or cutting one flavour of thread on another flavour of lathe you have to set the tool as before, start engage the leadscrew, cut the first pass, stop the lathe motor as it reaches the end of the thread (this is why slow speeds are good), retract the tool, reverse the motor to wind the saddle back, stop at the beginning, advance the tool start in forward again for the next pass. The leadscrew stays engaged for the duration of the thread cutting to keep the relationship between the rotation of the thread and the axial position of the tool.

Clear as mud? Ask again when you feel ready to cut a thread and can relate to the terminology. Thread cutting is not something you necessarily need to do in model making.

Al

 

[rake60]

Dave These are my personal opinions.

My mini mill is a Sieg X2, painted blue since I purchased it from Cummin's Tool.
It has been fitted with the belt drive and extended rack for the Z axis.
For the scale I work at it's perfect.

My lathe is a Grizzly G4000 9 X 19.
It's a 9 X 20 painted any other color.
Grizzly calls it a 9 X 19 because they are measuring to a live center instead of
the dead center the other sellers use.

I don't like variable speed drives.
Once again, that is a personal opinion!
I have two friends who have had problems with variable speed controls.
Both of them ended up being rather expensive to repair.

What you buy has to be your choice.
I'm sure you will get many more opinions here.

Rick

 

[Bogstandard]

Dave,

It all depends on how long you want to wait for second hand equipment.

I know for a fact that there will be a lathe and miller coming up in the next couple of months. Fully tooled, except for cutters, and in very good mechanical condition, just needs the old oil cleaning off them. They have turned out some fairly good work in the past.

At only 2/3rds of your budget.

John

 

[CrewCab]

Thanks to everyone for their input so far, it's very useful ........... Al, I'm still scratching my head over the thread cutting : ........ but I'll get to grips with the basics first, and make do with my tap and die set for now, once I gain a little confidence then I'll no doubt be asking more advice on threading, many thanks.

Rick

What you buy has to be your choice.

Absolutely spot on Sir ;D ............. I agree that whatever I end up with is "my choice" and I would never think otherwise, but all hint's and tips are gratefully received.

Dave

 

[John S]

Dave,
Go with the 9 x 20 as a lathe or similar
You want the belt drive, variable speed is OK but you only have the same torque all the way thru the ranges.
With belts or gears as you drop the speed you increase the torque which is what is needed.

Another thing is the started low speed of the Electronic machines often isn't usable if you have a large piece of work and by the time you have enough power to machine it you are going too fast.

.

 

[CrewCab]

It all depends on how long you want to wait for second hand equipment.

Mr Bogstandard "Sir"
<where's the standing to attention smiley when you need him>

I'm all ears 8) .................. however I am a little concerned with the possible size / weight issue ..... but then again ........... problems are meant for solving

I would be delighted to hear more.

Dave

 

[John S]

Oh By the way.
Not sure if the UK members have heard of or seen this.

http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk/

It's a free advert site to buy and sell model engineering related items, tools, machines, book and models etc.

Totally free no hidden fees for buyer or seller and offered purely as a service.

Although UK based it can host advert from other countries.

.

 

[Bogstandard]

Dave,

I have just been back and reread your post, and yes you would be very, very tight, in fact you could add another very.


John S

Used that site many times. In this case I was trying to offer my bits to the members, but it looks like it would be rather large for the area involved, so might have to go down that route myself. BTW, might be at Harrogate, will look out for you.

John

 

[CrewCab]

Dave,
I have just been back and reread your post, and yes you would be very, very tight, in fact you could add another very.

very to the power 3 ......... dam ....... .... but .......... problems are for solving ............. 8) ........ I have access to Acrow props, sledgehammers and several burly builders

John, I would be very interested in hearing more, I did (or thought I did ??? ) send you a pm a while back, though I can find no trace of it in by "sent" box .............. is is me and Alzheimer's ??? .......... or "more hopefully" just my computer trying it's best to embarrass me yet again

Dave

 

[Bogstandard]

PM replied to.

John

 

[CrewCab]

PM replied to.

John

Ahhhhh ......... it wasn't lost in the www.worldwide.ethernet.wherever.com then :

Thank you ............. you have a reply btw

Dave

 

[Circlip]

If you're going to the big "H" Dave, the best time for horsetrading will be on Sunday, Less machinery to put back in the trailers. Regards Ian.

 

[CrewCab]

Well unfortunately due to available space I'm unable to take up John's (Bogstandard's) offer of his current lathe and mill ............. to say I'm gutted is a severe understatement ??? ... Whoever ends up with these machines will get a serious bargain.

However after chatting with John there's another contender to add to my list, Chester's Model B

Much bigger swing over bed capacity, no power feed that I can see .............. is that a problem with thread cutting?

I'd welcome opinions from anyone with experience of these or similar machines.

Dave

 

[Bogstandard]

Dave,

That lathe cuts both metric and imperial (metric as standard, imperial by changing the gears at the back of the head). There is no power cross feed though. But that is not usually fitted to cheaper machines anyway.
I think what you have chosen there will fit nicely into the tight space in your shop, and also do the limited milling you will require.

John

 

[enginebob]

Would be required to build a 2" scale model of a Case steam tractor from castings? I am asking this for a friend.
EB