Annealing gray iron castings

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ChazzC, Richard

Getting on track to the thread title, you both seem to have a lot of experience. Could you share your personal experiences annealing gray cast iron? When building your models that have iron castings have you had luck with any of the processes above or another process or just use them as delivered?

Bob
 
ChazzC, Richard

Getting on track to the thread title, you both seem to have a lot of experience. Could you share your personal experiences annealing gray cast iron? When building your models that have iron castings have you had luck with any of the processes above or another process or just use them as delivered?

Bob
I have no experience with that.
 
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Not the place but if we ever are in the same vicinity we can spend an evening over beer discussing my experience with government and business making short term monetary decisions that cost lives in the long run.
 
I have no experience with that.
And I have to admit that my experience is based on reading (Guy Lautard IIRC, and maybe old issues of Model Engineering)


EDIT: If you can wait until Spring when I will be able to drive again I could pay my Amish acquaintances that run a small foundry what they think.
 
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And I have to admit that my experience is based on reading (Guy Lautard IIRC, and maybe old issues of Model Engineering)


EDIT: If you can wait until Spring when I will be able to drive again I could pay my Amish acquaintances that run a small foundry what they think.
ChazzC

Not sure what I have to wait for, I have been having cast iron annealing done for me or by me for over 45 years, including several Amish foundries back in late '80s. I am very happy with my results. I and others of course are always willing to learn, as from JasonB in his post and others here. So please do get back to us with your acquaintances input when you get a chance. I too know what it is like to be driving restricted for a bit, kinda crimps your style.

Bob
 
ChazzC

Not sure what I have to wait for, I have been having cast iron annealing done for me or by me for over 45 years, including several Amish foundries back in late '80s. I am very happy with my results. I and others of course are always willing to learn, as from JasonB in his post and others here. So please do get back to us with your acquaintances input when you get a chance. I too know what it is like to be driving restricted for a bit, kinda crimps your style.

Bob
Sling until after recovery & PT, and the replacement surgery isn’t until December so it will be a while. However, I’ll add this to my to-do list.
 
Anything that needs annealing - cast iron, steel, weldments - i throw into my woodstove end of day. The temperature will then be around 700 degrees Celsius. In the morning I take them out. Works for me.
 
Anything that needs annealing - cast iron, steel, weldments - i throw into my woodstove end of day. The temperature will then be around 700 degrees Celsius. In the morning I take them out.

We would do the same by putting them into our coke fired furnace after the pour with just natural draught and letting them cool with the fire

Regards Mark
 
Here's one I cooked in the week and starte dmachining today.

Build up a good hot bed and then put the castings on top

20241030_143745.jpg


Keep feeding the fire and get it nice and hot, castings will slowly drop down

20241030_154702.jpg


Actually almost dark but the hot embers could be seen through the vents for several hours. Still warm to the touch the next morning.

20241030_170045.jpg


Even the sticky out bits which ar ethe most prone to hard areas drilled nicely. For scale the holes are 3.5mm and the lugs 7mm wide. This maker of castings had a reputation for supplying hard ones but all seems well so far now that they have been treated.

20241102_110514.jpg
 
I have not posted on here very much, and only look from time to time.
I have a small shop foundry, and have melted around 26 tons of scrap into castings over 44 years now.
I use clay graphite crucibles.
I will tell my proceedures for making machinable castings.
Most of what I made was not critical for strength.
I am not a real authority, but most of my castings were machinable.

Having machinable castings is the most important issue when selling castings.
I like sharing my knowledge, have learned that saying "hardspots" when talking about castings is as a high spirited topic as any politics can be. If one lets people say your castings are junk hard, you will loose business.
Quality control was my most important agenda when casting.

I may have to make more than one reply for time constraints.

To start with, things I learned to do and not do.

1. An important issue when casting from crucibles is to use clay graphite crucibles opposed to silicon carbide ones.

2. I use additives from a local foundry. I add graphite and fero silicon. The silicon some how disappears when remelting iron and must be readded..
Silicon is very strange in chemical composition. Under 2.5%, it makes castings machinable, while 7% makes white-hard iron, which is then heated in coal furnaces for about a week, to make maleable iron. One foundry melts old bath tubs to get higher silicon numbers.
If one lets his tool get dull when maching it, it rehardens the casting.
Much like if machining stress proof, which is air hardening, with manganese, one simply heats a piece, and it gets hard.
Once I cut 47 teeth of a 48 tooth gear stick, to part off model gears, when the cutter got dull, which hardened the stick, and wrecked my work.

3. Point of view, as has been stated in previous replies, the temperature heated to makes a difference in ones intended use.
When talking about tempering a spring or tool like a knife blade, alot of people go nuts if I refer to tempering as annealing. If this erks a reader here, just read the deffinition of anneal.
What I shoot for when annealing is to Normalize my castings.
I do this by placing all my castings from the last pour, into the furnace after the next poor. They turn orange, and that eliminates most hard spots.
Here I am mostly dealing with chilled castings. Improper chemical properties require or benifit from different temperatures and time heated.
Once I had to remove a casting and reheat it 3 times until the very center would machine.
I must stop here and do another reply.
 
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Here's one I cooked in the week and starte dmachining today.

Build up a good hot bed and then put the castings on top

View attachment 160676

Keep feeding the fire and get it nice and hot, castings will slowly drop down

View attachment 160677

Actually almost dark but the hot embers could be seen through the vents for several hours. Still warm to the touch the next morning.

View attachment 160678

Even the sticky out bits which ar ethe most prone to hard areas drilled nicely. For scale the holes are 3.5mm and the lugs 7mm wide. This maker of castings had a reputation for supplying hard ones but all seems well so far now that they have been treated.

View attachment 160679
Nice photos
Look like the way I annel steel.

Dave
 
The cast iron book I mention above notes that by slowly cooling an annealed casting, you can also get stress relief, and so that is another way to do that, in addition to putting iron castings outdoors for aging.
.
When order from large founders they all need. But do not think any order castings.
It some most do think about is class of cast iron.
There is lower quality you see coming from overseas poor machining and may find pits and sand pockets
In America here basic ones

The lowest cost is class 25 This I told pans, stove machine tool parts basically all-purpose machines great
Class 35
Class 45 This I most of time good and very strong and easy machining
Class 55
Class 65 I have use this a few times but harder to machine and high cost not fun.

I had plans and was working the furnace but EPA problems and cost of fuel. It just easier to buy from frondry and was little more money. The aluminum foundry was OK at time with EPA.

Dave
 
When hitting hard spots, there are 4 basic problems with the iron.
When I cast, I always break the gates off. Rinky dink hardness test is an examination of the cross section of the break. All foundries make a wdege test casting with each pot of iron. One simply snaps the wedge and examines the chill line. All castings that have a wedge or feather line will show as much as from the knife blade edge to .090 thickness of wedge of silver white iron look. This is the chill. If your wedge test is silver beyond .090, the casting is harder. If there is no chill line, it is too soft. It will machine like Chinese powdered junk. But now they have learned quality control.
This one is the easiest to deal with and most common, Chills are what it sounds like. The thin iron casting chilled like heating steel and dunking into water. All one needs to do is heat it to a Normalizing temperature. As I stated earlier, I just put them all into the furnace after the next pour.
I can comment on the phenomonon of hard flywheel rings, various hard metal inclusions, such as not melting Mopar Inerceptor or Pontiac blocks wite nickle atnd silicon uses.
I will post more later at a convenient time. Church time starts soon.
 
Although the tread title reada more about the theories in annealing, I have ventured into the causes of hard spots in the casting processes I have learned. I may be incorrect, but these statements have been learned the hard way, and I have poured many usable machinable castings.

When machining, if I found the tool bit wearing away quickly, some times I could visably see what looked like pepper dots in the casting. This I am sure is silicon.
Other times my toolbit would skip over a shiny spot. This I determined to have been carbide.
When pouring from a crucible, sometimes I cast non machined items. Those I could use nickel content iron such as Mopar HP blocks and GM made Pontiac and Oldsmobile blocks. They harder to machine. And I melted them in longer lasting Silicon Carbide crucibles. Those would produce what some might call junk castings. Although I only maybe burried in the ditch 2 in potsnof iron worth of castings, I also never had a casting I could not machine. Some I heated in a coal forge.
It came to me that the only way I could anneal such a casting as stated-silicon or carbide inclusion waa to burn it out in a forge, where castings were held at orange for a few minutes.
I knew of a guy who tried to get into the business, who used silicon carbide crucibles, and his castings had hard spots in them. I do not know what became of him.
I learned to never pour thin castings with large casting mixes. Nor viseversa. The chemical make up controlled by amount of additives either made the thick castings too soft, or the thin ones hard.
The pouring temperature also makes the castings harder or softer.
I learned that when pouring, the iron in the bottom of the pot is cooler than the top. So after I would pour off the first 35 pounds, the ballance was hotter iron, I used on thinner castings.
 
When I lived in Indianapolis some 30 years ago, I worked in a smaller foundry. We poured ductile. We added manganese, it is a poison that makes men sterile. We were along a hiking trail. When the Manganese was added, pink smoke would be fanned out of the building.
 
I visit a foundry in Chatanooga Tn, where the government ran everyone out of town. They would go around with binoculars and look for pink or yellow smoke. The iron opposed to the coke had the impurities in it.
I think the yellow smoke was from zinc in yellow brass. I am not sure of the laws now, but at one time pouring yellow brass was about banned in the US over zinc. One gets the zink chills from it. It can make one very sick, and worse if drinking soda pop. Always drink tomato juice after pouring yellow brass with a zinc base. Locomotive valve links are yellow brass, but have no zinc, totally different alloy.
The most used brass now is actually statue bronze. I hate machining it. It is designed to skim and freeze to prevent outer skin holes from shrinking or steam. I find it hard to buy leaded red brass ingots.
They have now banned lead in wheel weights. If the EPA finds lead wheel weights on the ground in the scrap yard, they fine them $10,000.
The local Jew goes nuts if he sees a car rim with the lead weights on it.
More later on.
 
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I visit a foundry in Chatanooga Tn, where the government ran everyone out of town. They would go around with binoculars and look for pink or yellow smoke. The iron opposed to the coke had the impurities in it.
I think the yellow smoke was from zinc in yellow brass. I am not sure of the laws now, but at one time pouring yellow brass was about banned in the US over zinc. One gets the zink chills from it. It can make one very sick, and worse if drinking soda pop. Always drink tomato juice after pouring yellow brass with a zinc base. Locomotive valve links are yellow brass, but have no zinc, totally different alloy.
The most used brass now is actually statue bronze. I hate machining it. It is designed to skim and freeze to prevent outer skin holes from shrinking or steam. I find it hard to buy leaded red brass ingots.
They have now banned lead in wheel weights. If the EPA finds lead wheel weights on the ground in the scrap yard, they fine them $10,000.
The local Jew goes nuts if he sees a car rim with the lead weights on it.
More later on.
Huh, that's odd, I'm a local Jew and I don't go nuts over lead weights!
 
I visit a foundry in Chatanooga Tn, where the government ran everyone out of town. They would go around with binoculars and look for pink or yellow smoke. The iron opposed to the coke had the impurities in it.
I think the yellow smoke was from zinc in yellow brass. I am not sure of the laws now, but at one time pouring yellow brass was about banned in the US over zinc. One gets the zink chills from it. It can make one very sick, and worse if drinking soda pop. Always drink tomato juice after pouring yellow brass with a zinc base. Locomotive valve links are yellow brass, but have no zinc, totally different alloy.
The most used brass now is actually statue bronze. I hate machining it. It is designed to skim and freeze to prevent outer skin holes from shrinking or steam. I find it hard to buy leaded red brass ingots.
They have now banned lead in wheel weights. If the EPA finds lead wheel weights on the ground in the scrap yard, they fine them $10,000.
The local Jew goes nuts if he sees a car rim with the lead weights on it.
More later on.
Lead used for thousands of years .
It could like Asbestos back 1960's silicon was same list as Asbestos. Silicon oxide about as dangerous as Asbestos
Today i here nothing of Silicon oxide aka sand dust.
If read technical manual it will be there.

I do know lead is if used wrong it very dangerous.
Most free machining metals have a very small lead.
Where I live the steel warehouses do stock free machining because food equipment be built here.

You can find lead in jewelries before 1980 would add to gold and silver to cheat. By this time you could buy simple test for lead.

Dave

FYI I still use lead babbitt for very old engines and tools.
It still use in car batteries, electronics, emergency exit signs, computer backups power and the list goes on
 
Lead used for thousands of years .
It could like Asbestos back 1960's silicon was same list as Asbestos. Silicon oxide about as dangerous as Asbestos
Today i here nothing of Silicon oxide aka sand dust.
If read technical manual it will be there.

I do know lead is if used wrong it very dangerous.
Most free machining metals have a very small lead.
Where I live the steel warehouses do stock free machining because food equipment be built here.

You can find lead in jewelries before 1980 would add to gold and silver to cheat. By this time you could buy simple test for lead.

Dave

FYI I still use lead babbitt for very old engines and tools.
It still use in car batteries, electronics, emergency exit signs, computer backups power and the list goes on
I am not sure of what all is used in batteries now, but they say lead is no longer the battery metal used. That is why the prices went uo, and they go bad fast
 
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