A new specialty magazine?

[pete]

A good friend of mine and I were talking a few days ago. Both his and my interests are in fairly complicated Stationary steam engines. While I have nothing against the Internal Combustion types, And I've learned a huge ammout reading about how the average HSM type builds and overcomes all the hard parts like cam and crank manufacturing for both single and multi cylinder engines. It's still not where my major interests are. As far as magazines for the average HSM person, The people who build Live Steam Locomotives, I.C. Engines, Workshop equipment ect. It seems to be fairly well covered. Various magazines like Model Engineer, Model Engineers Workshop, Live Steam, Engineering in Miniature, Model Engine Builder magazine, and the Village Press magazines cover the above topics pretty well. Yet probably a higher majority of people build stationary Steam engines than either I.C., Workshop equipment as a partial or totall hobby, or even locomotives.

This was both my friends and my points. I'd like to post this thread here on this forum and all the rest of the forums I belong to as a open place for comments as to the members thoughts for say 60 days, And then send a link for this thread to various publishers for our types of magazines. What is the general ammount of interest for a magazine dealing with Stationary steam? Looking at various older Model Engineer magazines, There was a huge ammount of some very nice and really rare engines built over the years. Yet it was spaced out and massive ammounts of this information has been lost for good unless you have access to those back issues. Our thoughts were a magazine of this type should be done along the lines of how and what Fine Woodworking magazine publishes for the woodworker. A high end, glossy, well done, and researched magazine. For those that agree or even disagree with this thread then I'd really appreciate your comments. As I said, Given enough interest I plan on sending this thread to various publishers. If you don't post, Your voice will not be heard.

Pete

 

[Tin Falcon]

there have bee a fair number of stationary,and marine steam engines published over the years in the various pubs.
Rudy Kouhoupt published in home shop machinist ,projects in metal and live steam as did Phil Dulclos and others.
IIRC model engine builder is a mix of IC and steam.
I never really saw much of Model-tech . by the time I realized it was there they were having problems delivering subscriptions and then went under.
It take a lot to put a magazine together. you need to sell a lot to make profits.
A focused pub like stationary steam would likely have a limited subsribership.
but folks told rich this web site was to focused and would never work. It has.
Tin

 

[pete]

Tin,
Appreciate your comments. I have read most of the articals you've pointed out. I have about 20 Modeltech magazines too. While Strictly I.C. did go under, M.E.B. magazine took over. While I can't prove it, I still maintain that a high quality Stationary Steam Engine magazine would have a higher subscriber base than internal combustion does. This is certainly not meant as any kind of slur against the I.C. fans.

Pete

 

[bentprop]

Not wanting to pour cold water on your idea,Pete,but personally,I probably wouldn't spend money on a magazine,when all the info I want is available on the web for free.Magazines like model engineer,HSM and the like already have enough trouble trying to fill their pages,so I doubt you'd get enough material to fill more than a couple of issues.
In any case,many people like myself,have a limited amount to spend on their hobby,and I would rather turn it into materials or tooling.
There are a couple of full-size steam magazines,and they often feature model engines as well.
Sorry if this sounds like I'm running down your idea,which I'm not.Just investigate carefully whether there is a large enough market before putting any money into it.

 

[pete]

Bentprop,
Nope, I said I wanted "ALL" comments. Your right, Everyones funds are limited. But you may not have read my comments as they were intended. Yes for sure there's a vast ammount of information avalible for free on the web including this site. But my poor attempt at a description was meant as a magazine that goes into detail far and above a non scale wobbler type engine. When was the last time you saw a set of member supplied PDFs with build instructions for a scale stationary steam engine? Live Steam and Outdoor Railroading is running a Gothic Beam Engine artical right now along the lines of what I'm attempting to describe.

Pete

 

[pete]

Pat,
Your posting with that collection of all those really cool old engravings of the rare Stationary Steam engines is exactly what I'm talking about. There is a huge ammount of this information out there but you have to really dig to find it. In fact it was partly that post of yours that started me thinking about this.

Pete

 

[Ed T]

I have subscribed to Fine Homebuilding and its companion Fine Woodworking for more than 25 years and I continue to get value from each issue. Half of the value to me is the high production values of the magazines. Seldom is there any "filler" material. That said, there have been alot of different takes on the same topics over the years i.e. "How to sharpen a chisel or plane blade"). The circulation numbers for both magazines are quite impressive, that is how they attract so many advertisers. For a specialty magazine such as you propose, there are three issues that I can see and they are interrelated to a large degree.
1) Content: It takes a huge amount of effort to fully document a project like a scale model steam engine to a level that is usable by others. It must be complete, correct, and leave as little to the imagination as possible. No different that what's required for a commercial engineering project. This is a lot of work. The KOZO books are a good example of how much it takes for a complex project. Some folks like to do it, but I'd be concerned about your ability to source enough good material for your proposal without paying a decent amount of money for it. So, the first question is, can you get enough good material on an ongoing basis?
2) Audience: Is there a big enough audience willing to pay for whatever you can offer. Without adequate circulation there will not be adequate advertising revenues and the cover price will go up and the circulation will suffer and the great circling of the drain will start. The second question is how many folks would subscribe and how much would they pay and can that be a business?
3) If you had the content available long term, and an eager audience that would pay for subscriptions who would your advertisers be and how much does that pay? I mean, specifically who would they be?? Has to be more specific than a vague conceptual group.
All those considerations lead me to a Quarterly or less frequent "journal" with all or most of a particular project in one volume available by subscription and, unlike a magazine, available on a long term basis. More like a book than a periodical. Still a bunch of work with little opportunity to get rich doing it. Doesn't mean it's a bad idea that couldn't be fun.

 

[pete]

Ed,
Really appreciate your input. You have almost all very valid points. Reading between the lines it appears, And I could be wrong that a few people think that this is a magazine I personaly want to start. LOL, I'm an equipment operator, I'd know how to bury the magazine but little more than that.

Since your a subscriber to both FWW and FHB then you have an exact idea of what I'm trying to explain. 100% in agreement with you to about the production values too.

I just had a email from a member here so I'll repeat a bit of it. Probably the highest interest on this site is for I.C. engines, Yet we make judgement calls about the interest by the postings here. For various reasons I'd be willing to bet there's a huge ammount that is getting built that's never seen in magazines or even posted on forums like this. That's not to say people don't check this site out, But they may not even become a member.

Again 100% on your thoughts about the effort required to document everything. But I think a lot of people are slowly changing their minds about that documentation effort. Far more people (other than myself) are becoming computer savy. That certainly doesn't reduce that effort a whole lot. But more people are becoming aware of the fact that any research and information will disappear without some input from themselves. I think someone here mentioned that it would be of limited content. I'd have to disagree. Over and above long running multi part articals, There's a vast ammount of information that could be covered. One would certainly be pattern making, Machining parts from bar stock for those that would prefer not to get into casting, Soldering or welding to obtain the required part shape. Your point about Kozo's books is a great example of what I mean. Gear cutting, Specialised tool making, ect. I've bought some of Kozo's books even tho I have no intensions of ever building a locomotive. But I sure learned a lot. Yes a magazine like this would be slow to start out, Model Engineers Workshop started out at 4 issues a year. I believe their up to 13 per year now. But it's funny you mentioned a quarterly type magazine as my buddy said the exact same thing. Yes a lot of this information is covered by multiple magazines but if you don't subscribe then you don't know about it. Lot's of it is totally free on the internet too.

Audience? My above comments covered this, But again there's far more people beavering away in their personal shops on labours of love than we'll ever know about. For the most part this is a pretty individualistic hobby. It attracts a certain personality. We like to do things our way. That's one reason why I'm certain that there's far more going on than we think. How much would people pay? That of course depends on those production values and content. I'm biased at this point so it would be a unfair answer on my part. Plus to be honest I have no idea.

Advertisers? Well there's not a more than hobby sized casting supplier that wouldn't want to advertise to a targeted audience. Look at the tool supplier adds in the Village Press magazines. They'd want in too. LOL, Village Press, Live steam, Model Engineer, EIM, ect, They all have advertising bugets and want the money to be spent where it does the most good.

Your idea about maybe a book/books? instead of a magazine certainly has some points worth thinking about. I'm sure Village Press does quite well with their hardcover books, Some of which have been reprinted many times.

But your point about obtaining quality content is the main issue, The rest would mostly handle itself.

Pete

 

[Deanofid]

Though I think it would be great to have a magazine available that dealt in just steam engines, I think such a narrow scope would make it a short lived publication. Just look at this forum, which is free for the users. It's "Home MODEL ENGINE Machinist", yet a great deal of it is not about that. The net this forum casts is quite wide, and much of it does not refer to model engines at all.

Even a popular mag, like Home Shop Machinist has trouble filling it's pages with good material. Just look at what they've included over the past year. Less than stellar re-builds of previously done engines, and etc. I don't take that mag any longer because of that, and them broadening the scope into CNC and such, just to keep an audience. I've seen a couple of reviews of equipment that I know are poor quality items, yet receive kindly remarks. They are beholden to their advertisers.

Strictly I.C. was a proper narrow scope publication. Mashburn did a hard job, trying to keep it that way. Circulation was quite low.

I'd buy the magazine you describe, by the way. It would be something I'd enjoy if it stuck to it's guns and offered only steam (not loco) engines. I don't know how many others feel the same.

 

[pete]

Deanofid,
Thanks, Yes this site caters to a lot of steam, And there's been some impressive builds here. LOL, I think the same, I'd buy a magazine like it too. I threw my original post up on 2 other forums. I may post on a few more.

Pete

 

[Deanofid]

Deanofid,
Thanks, Yes this site caters to a lot of steam, And there's been some impressive builds here.

What I was saying is, this forum doesn't really cater to any one faction. There is a lot of steam, and a good deal of IC, along with other engine types, but it is quite broad in its subjects. Much is not about model engines.

(I meant I would buy a magazine that dealt with only steam engines. No equipment reviews, or hashed over stuff. Or lawn edgers...)

The mag wouldn't necessarily need to be all complicated builds. It would surly need a number of beginner projects to make it interesting for all builders. They would need to be done well, though.

 

[Maryak]

There are a few of us here who make plans for engines, both IC and Steam. We do it as a "labour of love." and we have the input of fellow members to help us.

I understand that Model Engineer etc. pay good money for articles they publish.

The current engine I am scaling from an old book would have some 50 hours already and even at $5 per hour that's $250 and I am about 1/4 done. OK I am an amateur CADist and a professional could do it much quicker and probably better.

My point - sourcing, vetting and costing magazine articles is of itself an expensive exercise before one even considers publishing and marketing.

You are probably right in that more stationary steam engines are modelled than any other engine but the established magazines have a basic theme of Locos, Tractors, Equipment and IC. Stationary steam seems to feature and be used, (even on this forum), as a teaching aid and a stepping stone towards "Ultimate Model Engineering.

Just my opinion and probably worth exactly what you paid for it.

Best Regards
Bob

 

[pete]

Bob,
Some great and well thought out points. I also posted my thread on a U.K. based forum. Suprise,suprise. They have pretty well said the same. So It looks like it's certainly NOT going to take 60 days to shoot my thoughts down. One more idea tho for the Stationary Steam nuts here. Since Model Engineer has a complete data base for all of their magazines going back over 100 years, Then how about a bunch of reprints of all those rare and unusual stationary engines? For those of you that have never seen those back issues? You would be amazed. I've only seen a few old bound volumes of M.E. but what little I've seen impressed the hell out of me.

Pete

 

[coolgoose]

Pete,

I have never read any issues of Model Engineer but I think it would be great if there is a reprit of all those rare and unusual stationary engines. I may not be able build them but just for the sake of appreciating the engineering that went into to building those models, I would love to have them in my collection.

Thanks,
Sri.

 

[pete]

Sri,
I can guarantee you'd be very impressed.

Pete

 

[shred]

I have a few bound volumes of the early years of ME. They're pretty common on the used-book side of Amazon. Interesting to read for sure, but a lot of the weird-n-wonderful engines don't have good drawings with them-- you'd want to search through and only get the few that had good drawings and were really interesting.

 

[Cedge]

I see some real copyright problems lurking on the near horizon. Reprinting published materials is a sure fire way to get one's chestnuts roasted on an open fire. No opinion here on whether to jump on the project or run like hell, but I'd be one to advise taking a step back and looking at it with a cold clear eye before spending any money. It's way too easy for the "rose colored glasses" syndrome to come into play.

Steve