Ball Hopper Monitor - Casting Project
- Thread starter GreenTwin
- Start date
Help Support Home Model Engine Machinist Forum:
Great photos !
There are very few photos of Ball Hopper Monitor bases.
It is interesting to see all the variations in these engines.
.
There are very few photos of Ball Hopper Monitor bases.
It is interesting to see all the variations in these engines.
.
The first gas tank pattern half print is complete.
The logo was tricky because it is not directly on the front of the tank, but is up a bit.
I dialed the layer adjustment up to the highest setting, and the print time was not too excessive (9 hours).
The print quality I think is very good, not great like a resin printer, but a very respectable quality I think, and quite usable.
The photos are zoomed in a bit, and the light is sometimes cast to maximize the constrast on the lines, but the lines are small, and it would be simple to fill this pattern.
The lines are hardly visible when viewing this print from 24" away.
I am please with this print.
I will have to study JasonB's info about variable layer height, since I think that would have been a good thing to use on the water hopper, since I increased the layer height on that print to decrease print time.
I think the variable height function also increases print time, but apparently not excessively.
I will study the variable height info, and if it is not too complex, then I will incorporate that in the 2nd print half.
.
The logo was tricky because it is not directly on the front of the tank, but is up a bit.
I dialed the layer adjustment up to the highest setting, and the print time was not too excessive (9 hours).
The print quality I think is very good, not great like a resin printer, but a very respectable quality I think, and quite usable.
The photos are zoomed in a bit, and the light is sometimes cast to maximize the constrast on the lines, but the lines are small, and it would be simple to fill this pattern.
The lines are hardly visible when viewing this print from 24" away.
I am please with this print.
I will have to study JasonB's info about variable layer height, since I think that would have been a good thing to use on the water hopper, since I increased the layer height on that print to decrease print time.
I think the variable height function also increases print time, but apparently not excessively.
I will study the variable height info, and if it is not too complex, then I will incorporate that in the 2nd print half.
.
Attachments
I played around with the variable height options in the Prusa Slicer program.
Not sure I completely understand what is happening and why.
There is an "Adaptive" button.
A "Quality/Speed" slider.
A "Smooth" button.
A "Radius" slider.
When you select variable height, the dialog box appears on the lower right of the screen.
A vertical profile appears on the right side of the screen.
The colors on the vertical profile correspond to the colors displayed on the model, but I don't understand that either.
I played around with different slider settings.
And apparently you hit the buttons repeatedly.
As you hit the buttons, you can watch the profile change on the right side.
I played around until the profile on the right was as flat as I could get it.
Did I get the settings correct ?
Not sure.
I will try a variable height print of the 2nd half of the gas tank.
Looking at a side-by-side comparision of the non-variable height sliced part and the variable height sliced part, there does appear to be some differences in the image.
I can compare the 1st and 2nd gas tank half prints, and see if the variable height adjustments helped obtain a smoother surface.
It will depend on whether I am making the correct interpretation of what the variable height adjustment is doing.
Using the variable height function reduced the print time by 3 hours, so I don't understand that.
.
Not sure I completely understand what is happening and why.
There is an "Adaptive" button.
A "Quality/Speed" slider.
A "Smooth" button.
A "Radius" slider.
When you select variable height, the dialog box appears on the lower right of the screen.
A vertical profile appears on the right side of the screen.
The colors on the vertical profile correspond to the colors displayed on the model, but I don't understand that either.
I played around with different slider settings.
And apparently you hit the buttons repeatedly.
As you hit the buttons, you can watch the profile change on the right side.
I played around until the profile on the right was as flat as I could get it.
Did I get the settings correct ?
Not sure.
I will try a variable height print of the 2nd half of the gas tank.
Looking at a side-by-side comparision of the non-variable height sliced part and the variable height sliced part, there does appear to be some differences in the image.
I can compare the 1st and 2nd gas tank half prints, and see if the variable height adjustments helped obtain a smoother surface.
It will depend on whether I am making the correct interpretation of what the variable height adjustment is doing.
Using the variable height function reduced the print time by 3 hours, so I don't understand that.
.
Attachments
Last edited:
I've only looked into the BambuLabs one but it is the same principle
This guy explains quite well what the different colours and the graph down the side mean.
Taking your image 35 the light areas are where it has reduced the layer height as it goes over the crests of the filler boss and then again goes light on the crest of the main tank. These are the areas where you would get a more noticeable horizontal spacing between the contours of each layer so the software adapts the heights in those areas to reduce the spacing.
As it only reduces heights in certain areas most will still print at a faster 0.2mm height so it is faster than setting it to your lowest height but takes a little longer than if you did it all at 0.2mm
This guy explains quite well what the different colours and the graph down the side mean.
Taking your image 35 the light areas are where it has reduced the layer height as it goes over the crests of the filler boss and then again goes light on the crest of the main tank. These are the areas where you would get a more noticeable horizontal spacing between the contours of each layer so the software adapts the heights in those areas to reduce the spacing.
As it only reduces heights in certain areas most will still print at a faster 0.2mm height so it is faster than setting it to your lowest height but takes a little longer than if you did it all at 0.2mm
You don't see many bases because most of the engines had the feet cast as part of the crankcase, only a few had the separate base. If you look closely at the photos you will see that the crankcase has the mounting lugs just below crank shaft height and that is also why the base has the cut outs so that it will clear the lower part of the crankcase which drops inside the separate base.
It is not like your freelance base that fits to the bottom of the cast feet making the engine top heavy.
It is not like your freelance base that fits to the bottom of the cast feet making the engine top heavy.
![MeshMagic 3D Free 3D Modeling Software [Download]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/B1U+p8ewjGS._SL500_.png)
I am watching the 2nd gas tank pattern half print.
My PLA filament was purchased a few years ago (I forget exactly when; time flies), and so some of it has become brittle.
The Prusa XL has a pretty long filament feeder tube, with two 90 degree bends, and then a large 180 degree bend.
The tube is not generously sized.
My filament began cracking inside the tube, and cracked PLA is not easy to get cleaned out of the tube.
I ended up unscrewing the tube from the print head, and suspending the roll over the printer.
The filament now drops down vertically directly into the print head, and the filament is strong enough to do that without cracking.
I could purchase new PLA, but I purchased a number of rolls, and so I need to use those up and not waste them.
PLA is pretty reasonable in cost, at least it was a few years ago.
Nothing is reasonable these days.
While watching the print progress, I ran across an iron bowl manufacturing video, which is perhaps the thinnest iron I have ever seen cast.
I would consider it more of an injection-molding process.
Makes a super thin cast iron cook surface.
.
My PLA filament was purchased a few years ago (I forget exactly when; time flies), and so some of it has become brittle.
The Prusa XL has a pretty long filament feeder tube, with two 90 degree bends, and then a large 180 degree bend.
The tube is not generously sized.
My filament began cracking inside the tube, and cracked PLA is not easy to get cleaned out of the tube.
I ended up unscrewing the tube from the print head, and suspending the roll over the printer.
The filament now drops down vertically directly into the print head, and the filament is strong enough to do that without cracking.
I could purchase new PLA, but I purchased a number of rolls, and so I need to use those up and not waste them.
PLA is pretty reasonable in cost, at least it was a few years ago.
Nothing is reasonable these days.
While watching the print progress, I ran across an iron bowl manufacturing video, which is perhaps the thinnest iron I have ever seen cast.
I would consider it more of an injection-molding process.
Makes a super thin cast iron cook surface.
.
I tried the Variable Height option in the Prusa Slicer, but I can't tell any difference from the first gas tank half print.
I am not positive I used the Variable Height option correctly.
It may have defaulted to a more coarse setting.
Print turned out usable.
I forgot to use supports, but the print is still usable.
You can really get a feel for the size of a part when you can hold a 3D print in your hand.
.
I am not positive I used the Variable Height option correctly.
It may have defaulted to a more coarse setting.
Print turned out usable.
I forgot to use supports, but the print is still usable.
You can really get a feel for the size of a part when you can hold a 3D print in your hand.
.
Attachments
Last edited:
Fidlstyks
Well-Known Member
I am quite certain the subase was only used on the 6-7 hp engines. Perhaps for casting-assembly ease, or to make them fit the buzz saw rigs.
Attachments
Moving on to the flywheel.
I removed the draft angle from the rim, and am going to mold that flat, using a mylar strip.
I scaled the flywheel to 14" diameter, which is not exactly 1/2 scale, but is as large as I can print.
I don't think anyone would pull out a tape measure when they see the engine, other than perhaps JasonB, but he is over there...........and I am over here..............so there is that.
This is a 21 hour print, and I am hoping that since this flywheel is symmetrical, I can use one 3D-printed pattern half to cast two permanent aluminum pattern halves.
I will have to baby this pattern when removing it from the mold.
.
I removed the draft angle from the rim, and am going to mold that flat, using a mylar strip.
I scaled the flywheel to 14" diameter, which is not exactly 1/2 scale, but is as large as I can print.
I don't think anyone would pull out a tape measure when they see the engine, other than perhaps JasonB, but he is over there...........and I am over here..............so there is that.
This is a 21 hour print, and I am hoping that since this flywheel is symmetrical, I can use one 3D-printed pattern half to cast two permanent aluminum pattern halves.
I will have to baby this pattern when removing it from the mold.
.
Attachments
Don't need my tape measure to remind you that you have not modeled the hub clamp even if it is going to be a dummy it is quite a prominent item and easy to spot.
Also you are going to need one half with the boss, stop pin and spring lug for the governor together with the pulley mounting bosses, again prominent features and you can't do without the governor. Which I think will also mean the halves on that side of the engine are not symmetrical.
Finally what are you going to do about teh balance grooves, they were not the easiest to machine on my 9" flywheel so will be harder on a 14" one and if being true to original you want to be casting these in rather than machining them. Different for each side.
Also you are going to need one half with the boss, stop pin and spring lug for the governor together with the pulley mounting bosses, again prominent features and you can't do without the governor. Which I think will also mean the halves on that side of the engine are not symmetrical.
Finally what are you going to do about teh balance grooves, they were not the easiest to machine on my 9" flywheel so will be harder on a 14" one and if being true to original you want to be casting these in rather than machining them. Different for each side.
You have also left yourself quite a bit of machining to do, if you had cast it with the raised narrow edge to the rim you would only need to machine that both sides plus the face. As you have the pattern now you will have to turn the "cast" surface so it is narrower than the rim and then blend that into the rest of the flywheel.
Attachments
I think I either grabbed the wrong flywheel 3D model, or perhaps I did not create a new 3D model for this engine.
At any rate, I will keep printing this flywheel half, since I have it started, and it can be a nice generic flywheel pattern.
I will need to go back and either find the right model, or start a new one.
This is probably the Frisco Standard flywheel if I had to guess.
Edit:
Nope, its not the Frisco Standard.
Perhaps I started this flywheel for the Monitor, and did not finish it.
I will have to look closely at it.
No idea at the moment.
It is a nice flywheel whatever it is for.
I think I could use it for several engines.
.
At any rate, I will keep printing this flywheel half, since I have it started, and it can be a nice generic flywheel pattern.
I will need to go back and either find the right model, or start a new one.
This is probably the Frisco Standard flywheel if I had to guess.
Edit:
Nope, its not the Frisco Standard.
Perhaps I started this flywheel for the Monitor, and did not finish it.
I will have to look closely at it.
No idea at the moment.
It is a nice flywheel whatever it is for.
I think I could use it for several engines.
.
Last edited:
It looks like I was comparing these two flywheels with a Baker flywheel in this merged image.
I think the one on the left was either from another engine, or was an early version.
The one on the right looks like the latest version for this Monitor engine.
Now I have to compare that with what is printing.
I am glad someone is paying attention.
I have some more work to do on this flywheel; it is not right yet.
.
I think the one on the left was either from another engine, or was an early version.
The one on the right looks like the latest version for this Monitor engine.
Now I have to compare that with what is printing.
I am glad someone is paying attention.
I have some more work to do on this flywheel; it is not right yet.
.
Last edited:
My 3D printer is on the other side of my office, and I can't see what is happening on the print bed.
I moved my conference camera over to a spot above the printer.
Now I can work and keep an eye on the printer too.
Edit:
I am thinking that the broken filament sensor must be on the side of the printer frame, and not near the print nozzle.
I had a broken filament the other day, luckily early in the print, and the printer kept printing.
I have bypassed the long small feed tube, and am dropping straight into the top of the extruder, and that is working so far with the old filament that was too brittle to make it through the feed tube without cracking.
I had to push a piece of filament into the sensor, in order to make the printer think it has filament in the tube.
.
I moved my conference camera over to a spot above the printer.
Now I can work and keep an eye on the printer too.
Edit:
I am thinking that the broken filament sensor must be on the side of the printer frame, and not near the print nozzle.
I had a broken filament the other day, luckily early in the print, and the printer kept printing.
I have bypassed the long small feed tube, and am dropping straight into the top of the extruder, and that is working so far with the old filament that was too brittle to make it through the feed tube without cracking.
I had to push a piece of filament into the sensor, in order to make the printer think it has filament in the tube.
.
As far as models that I am sure are complete, and could be printed now, they are the following:
1. Inner muffler half.
2. Outer muffler half.
3. Crankshaft.
4. Cylinder head.
5. Lid for the water hopper.
6. I think the valve chamber is ready.
7. The crankcase cover needs a little more detailing.
8. The piston is ready.
9. The base I roughed out is not really final, and I did not have anything to go by when I made that 3D model.
I am not really sure why they made the base that Fidlstyks posted the way that they did.
This is the bottom of the crankcase on Barney's 4hp engine, and this is how I modeled mine.
I am not going to change the crankcase on mine, so the base will have to attach under the feet.
I want the flywheels to clear the ground by about 1 inch, with the engine on the base.
If the engine is too top heavy, I can add weight in the base, such as sand, or whatever.
The base may be a good candidate to cast in 356 aluminum, since it is a static item with no wearing surfaces.
10. The crankcase/cylinder is pretty much ready, but I need to verify the boss locations.
I need to look at the water jacket again to be sure I can make that core.
The crankcase will require four patterns, and then some coreboxes.
I may try to combine patterns and coreboxes on the crankcase/frame.
I recently acquired some ferromagnesium, and so I may try to cast the crankshaft in ductile iron.
I will have to get some plastic refractory to line the reaction chamber.
I think that will be all the large patterns/castings.
I think there may be some fidgety small pieces to cast, like the governor weight, etc.
.
1. Inner muffler half.
2. Outer muffler half.
3. Crankshaft.
4. Cylinder head.
5. Lid for the water hopper.
6. I think the valve chamber is ready.
7. The crankcase cover needs a little more detailing.
8. The piston is ready.
9. The base I roughed out is not really final, and I did not have anything to go by when I made that 3D model.
I am not really sure why they made the base that Fidlstyks posted the way that they did.
This is the bottom of the crankcase on Barney's 4hp engine, and this is how I modeled mine.
I am not going to change the crankcase on mine, so the base will have to attach under the feet.
I want the flywheels to clear the ground by about 1 inch, with the engine on the base.
If the engine is too top heavy, I can add weight in the base, such as sand, or whatever.
The base may be a good candidate to cast in 356 aluminum, since it is a static item with no wearing surfaces.
10. The crankcase/cylinder is pretty much ready, but I need to verify the boss locations.
I need to look at the water jacket again to be sure I can make that core.
The crankcase will require four patterns, and then some coreboxes.
I may try to combine patterns and coreboxes on the crankcase/frame.
I recently acquired some ferromagnesium, and so I may try to cast the crankshaft in ductile iron.
I will have to get some plastic refractory to line the reaction chamber.
I think that will be all the large patterns/castings.
I think there may be some fidgety small pieces to cast, like the governor weight, etc.
.
Last edited:
I ran out of orange filament, and hot swapped to purple.
It is easy enough to just feed a new filament in as the end of the other one feeds down into the printhead.
Edit:
I hot-swapped a new roll for the flywheel, since I have to leave and let it run, and don't want to run out of filament.
I recall now that I purchased quite a few rolls of PLA several years ago, and I got a good price on it because it was odd colors that were not selling well, such as pretty much any fluorescent color, so perhaps 1/3 the cost of a popular color filament.
.
It is easy enough to just feed a new filament in as the end of the other one feeds down into the printhead.
Edit:
I hot-swapped a new roll for the flywheel, since I have to leave and let it run, and don't want to run out of filament.
I recall now that I purchased quite a few rolls of PLA several years ago, and I got a good price on it because it was odd colors that were not selling well, such as pretty much any fluorescent color, so perhaps 1/3 the cost of a popular color filament.
.
Last edited:
Fidlstyks
Well-Known Member
On one of my flywheel patterns, I turned a single half and cast 4 single halves from it, then added or machined each half what needed done.
Then I added 1/32" gasket material to the inside (backside-center) and cast patterns from each of the 4 halves, then machined the nacks i flat and chined the rings and pinned them.
I have machined cutouts to ballance, weighing the shavings, removing combined a chart I have, like half ? the weight of the piston and 3/4 the rid?
I do not make very many casting kits, so loose split patterns are fine for now.
I have plans for making plates.
I have a guy that said he wants to take my patterns and cast masters on the zigzag interlocking plates and take them to a real foundry and have a thousand kits cast.
Then I added 1/32" gasket material to the inside (backside-center) and cast patterns from each of the 4 halves, then machined the nacks i flat and chined the rings and pinned them.
I have machined cutouts to ballance, weighing the shavings, removing combined a chart I have, like half ? the weight of the piston and 3/4 the rid?
I do not make very many casting kits, so loose split patterns are fine for now.
I have plans for making plates.
I have a guy that said he wants to take my patterns and cast masters on the zigzag interlocking plates and take them to a real foundry and have a thousand kits cast.
Last edited:
Had it been the correct flywheel for the engine then the long print time could have been recovered by printing missing features and adding them to the print for each of the aluminium patterns but as it is not even the right flywheel may as well start again.
If you slow down and think ahead you could print just one half with the hub clamp detail and pulley mounting lugs. Also add locating holes for a separate governor boss, stop pin and spring lug. Print the separate parts.
1. Cast the outer governor side ali pattern with the governor boss and spring parts located in their holes.
2. Cast the outer opposite side without the governor items
3. Cut off pulley lugs and cast governor inner half with the pin, pivot and spring lug attached
4. Cast opposite inner half without any features
Have done this with other flywheel patterns cut on the CNC, make the master and then machine an additional feature that can be added to the pattern so you get two different flywheels from the ome main pattern
Master
CNC machined crank boss
Plain flywheel
Crank flywheel
If you slow down and think ahead you could print just one half with the hub clamp detail and pulley mounting lugs. Also add locating holes for a separate governor boss, stop pin and spring lug. Print the separate parts.
1. Cast the outer governor side ali pattern with the governor boss and spring parts located in their holes.
2. Cast the outer opposite side without the governor items
3. Cut off pulley lugs and cast governor inner half with the pin, pivot and spring lug attached
4. Cast opposite inner half without any features
Have done this with other flywheel patterns cut on the CNC, make the master and then machine an additional feature that can be added to the pattern so you get two different flywheels from the ome main pattern
Master
CNC machined crank boss
Plain flywheel
Crank flywheel
