Horological Society Shop

clockworkcheval · Nov 24, 2024

The heyday of conventional machining sees a daily revival in the common workshop of our horological society 'Klokkengroep 's-Hertogenbosch' in The Netherlands. Many of our members prefer a shaper over a mill, and some members believe that using a lathe can come in handy, but all other work should be done by filing. Recently a small group caused a subdued uproar by selecting waterjet cutting to machine the blanks of steel gearwheels of a mediaeval clock. A side benefit is that our subcontractor publicized a short case story about it. They did some kneading and weeding to our submitted story, and sprinkled it with some commercial wording, but the result gives a nice impression of our work and workshop: https://xometry.pro/en-eu/stories/horological-society-barentsz-clock .

lathe nut · Nov 24, 2024

clockworkcheval

I find clock work so fastening, for several years wanted to get into it but the job I had required long hours and to add to that pain it was a 24 hour call, I have retired still have the love to want to learn clock repair, but find it hard and not sure where to look to learn, I have a very good mechanical mind that is one plus for me, I go to yard sales, garage sales, estate sales and have picked up several old clocks, so have a start on at least some to try to fix, I admire you people who work on them, I love attention to detail and that is a must in the profession, don't want to bother with question and just might point me in a direction of where to start and parts, I have three shapers, 7" Atlas and Southbend and 24" Cincinnati, I make several things on the, love to sit and make the parts with the neat sound they make, again admire you people, thanks, Joe

clockworkcheval · Nov 24, 2024

Thank you for the kind words, Joe. Two of the very best books on horology in my opinion are 'Practical Benchwork for Horologists' By Louis and Samuel Levin and 'The Clock and Watchmakers Guide to Gear Making... "and other machines" " by Robert D. Porter. While there are many interesting European books on the subject, these two American Books excel in practical usefulness. You seem to be well-equipped with machinetools, but for clockwork you may want to consider a small high speed lathe for the finnicky components. Once again American small lathes excel above European and Asian in practical precision for a good price. Levin still manufactures small very high precision lathes but these might be above budget for the regular amateur. Uselful and affordable are TAIG and Sherline. Make sure you provide a high speed capability for them up to 20.000 revs.

lathe nut · Nov 25, 2024

clockworkcheval

Credit and Respect where it is due, thanks for the tips on the books, I will probably not do for anyone only for the ones I have but may turn into more but for now my plate is full, I sell scrap, mechanic most on lawn mower at my shop, tractors and machine work but in the small lathes, I have several small Atlas, a unimat with all the attachments,

lathe nut · Nov 29, 2024

@clockworkcheval

This is the unimat, I bought it at a yard sale of garage sale, not sure what you call them over there but it when dad pass away the kids sell everything, not knowing the value of anything, I bought it for $50.00 dollars, it come with two more boxes of attachments and extra tooling this should work what do you think, thanks for your time, Joe

clockworkcheval · Nov 29, 2024

Hi Joe, excellent buy and it looks like it is in good condition. Out of the estate of a good friend of mine I prepared such a machine for his grandson. Good general purpose for smaller parts. Not the first choice for horological components. For example to turn the steel taps on a clock shaft of dia 2 mm to a good surface finish with an HSS tool you want 8.000 revs and a good stifness. The Emco Unimat doesn't do that, TAIG or Sherline do. You could set it up as a second operation to burnish at lower speeds finished taps to greater smoothness.

Steamchick · Nov 30, 2024

Hi Joe, Excellent purchase. $50 = a bargain! I paid £125 for a fairly worn one - I think 1950s or 60s model. About 15 years ago! The motors are FRAGILE. The instruction book says Do NOT run for more than 10 mins. Stop and allow motor to cool before more use. I ran mine for about 15 mins and the motor was cooked. Dead. Kapput. Scrap metal.
But versatile, OK with light cuts. And I use mine for al the tiddly jobs too small for my 8in lathe. I re-motored mine with a £3 DC brush motor, & £ 3 voltage converter for variable speed.
K2

Daryl_bee · Nov 30, 2024

clockworkcheval said:
The heyday of conventional machining sees a daily revival in the common workshop of our horological society 'Klokkengroep 's-Hertogenbosch' in The Netherlands. Many of our members prefer a shaper over a mill, and some members believe that using a lathe can come in handy, but all other work should be done by filing. Recently a small group caused a subdued uproar by selecting waterjet cutting to machine the blanks of steel gearwheels of a mediaeval clock. A side benefit is that our subcontractor publicized a short case story about it. They did some kneading and weeding to our submitted story, and sprinkled it with some commercial wording, but the result gives a nice impression of our work and workshop: https://xometry.pro/en-eu/stories/horological-society-barentsz-clock .

I have that book (plans) for the Barantsz clock. That clock was found on Nova Zembla (where the Russians later tested Tzar Bomba). I've always been interested in forged iron clocks and hope someday to make a replica of the Cotehele clock. I've been working on a CAD model to get the basics right. Even played with making a 3D stereo picture of my CAD model (cross your eyes until you see a 3rd image in the middle)

What would you recommend as the best books on medieval iron (turret style) clocks? I have Beeson's "English Church Clocks 1280-1850". I'd like get more so as to get good pictures of construction & design details for these forged iron wonders. I also haven't seen any good books on designing a verge & foliot escapement. i.e. if I know the period & foliot length & mass what pallet length & angle do I need to achieve that?

clockworkcheval · Nov 30, 2024

Daryl_bee said:
I have that book (plans) for the Barantsz clock. That clock was found on Nova Zembla (where the Russians later tested Tzar Bomba). I've always been interested in forged iron clocks and hope someday to make a replica of the Cotehele clock. I've been working on a CAD model to get the basics right. Even played with making a 3D stereo picture of my CAD model (cross your eyes until you see a 3rd image in the middle)

What would you recommend as the best books on medieval iron (turret style) clocks? I have Beeson's "English Church Clocks 1280-1850". I'd like get more so as to get good pictures of construction & design details for these forged iron wonders. I also haven't seen any good books on designing a verge & foliot escapement. i.e. if I know the period & foliot length & mass what pallet length & angle do I need to achieve that?

Hi Daryl, There is a wealth of informative articles on mediaeval and gothic clocks on 'academia.edu'; also the AHS publicises many articles on the subject. Recently I got the book on house clocks 'Gothic Clocks to Lantern Clocks. Short-Duration Clocks & Rural Clocks 1480 - 1800' from John Robey, Mayfield Books. In 424 pages it packs many constructional details and very clear pictures and drawings. In The Netherlands we have the book 'Torenuurwerktechniek' by W. Houtkoper describing in a wopping 650 pages many of the still existing church clocks intermingled with their history, constructional detail and methods to maintain them. I'm afraid its language is very Dutch. On the subject of designing forged clocks with verge & foliot escapement I'm afraid the traditional way to go is, after learning during years of practice with a masterclockmaker, to copy an existing design and then improve it by experimenting.

Daryl_bee · Dec 1, 2024

clockworkcheval said:
Hi Daryl, There is a wealth of informative articles on mediaeval and gothic clocks on 'academia.edu'; also the AHS publicises many articles on the subject. Recently I got the book on house clocks 'Gothic Clocks to Lantern Clocks. Short-Duration Clocks & Rural Clocks 1480 - 1800' from John Robey, Mayfield Books. In 424 pages it packs many constructional details and very clear pictures and drawings. In The Netherlands we have the book 'Torenuurwerktechniek' by W. Houtkoper describing in a wopping 650 pages many of the still existing church clocks intermingled with their history, constructional detail and methods to maintain them. I'm afraid its language is very Dutch. On the subject of designing forged clocks with verge & foliot escapement I'm afraid the traditional way to go is, after learning during years of practice with a masterclockmaker, to copy an existing design and then improve it by experimenting.

Hi - Thanks so much for the book tips especially "Torenuurwerktechniek"! I do have Robey. I am familiar with the AHS - they published two of my articles in summer (24/2) & autumn (24/3) 1998 editions on the Wallingford clock. I have a 3rd more extensive article on the planetary gearing in the works. It was to be a trilogy on the most enigmatic parts of that clock but I'm not quite sure how to finish the last part, and they were excited for me to publish what I had at the time. I do have Jeremy Evan's AHS articles on "Scallop-Shell Marked Turret Clocks" which is good for details and is of the type of clock I'm interested in.

The part that I find difficult to get good information on is the forging details. Very technical details of how the iron is formed to, say, join crossings to wheels in a truly authentic way or construction details of the weight drum with spring. I can build a weight drum with spring but how would they do it. Horological publications are generally interested in just the horology and blacksmiths who make clocks are, for all intents and purposes, non-existent. It's an area that has generally "fallen through the cracks". There's a few cases where this is not so. I think of "The Anvil's Face" or Bomlin's blog on building a clock. That's also what makes the Barentsz book so good is that they fully documented the parts with drawings when they restored it. I wish the British museum would have done that with the Cassiobury clock. As for the foliot design that's what has me stopped on the Cotehele clock. I have 3 of 6 variables and, unlike the pendulum, no mathematical formulas seem to exist to solve the rest. I'll likely have to form a "test bed" and experiment as you say.

clockworkcheval · Dec 1, 2024

Daryl_bee said:
Hi - Thanks so much for the book tips especially "Torenuurwerktechniek"! I do have Robey. I am familiar with the AHS - they published two of my articles in summer (24/2) & autumn (24/3) 1998 editions on the Wallingford clock. I have a 3rd more extensive article on the planetary gearing in the works. It was to be a trilogy on the most enigmatic parts of that clock but I'm not quite sure how to finish the last part, and they were excited for me to publish what I had at the time. I do have Jeremy Evan's AHS articles on "Scallop-Shell Marked Turret Clocks" which is good for details and is of the type of clock I'm interested in.

The part that I find difficult to get good information on is the forging details. Very technical details of how the iron is formed to, say, join crossings to wheels in a truly authentic way or construction details of the weight drum with spring. I can build a weight drum with spring but how would they do it. Horological publications are generally interested in just the horology and blacksmiths who make clocks are, for all intents and purposes, non-existent. It's an area that has generally "fallen through the cracks". There's a few cases where this is not so. I think of "The Anvil's Face" or Bomlin's blog on building a clock. That's also what makes the Barentsz book so good is that they fully documented the parts with drawings when they restored it. I wish the British museum would have done that with the Cassiobury clock. As for the foliot design that's what has me stopped on the Cotehele clock. I have 3 of 6 variables and, unlike the pendulum, no mathematical formulas seem to exist to solve the rest. I'll likely have to form a "test bed" and experiment as you say.

Hi Daryl, The book 'Torenuurwerktechniek' is available as a 300 MB plus pdf file. If you forward your emailadres to me: '[email protected]' I will send you the file with WeTransfer.

SmithDoor · Dec 4, 2024

Steamchick said:
Hi Joe, Excellent purchase. $50 = a bargain! I paid £125 for a fairly worn one - I think 1950s or 60s model. About 15 years ago! The motors are FRAGILE. The instruction book says Do NOT run for more than 10 mins. Stop and allow motor to cool before more use. I ran mine for about 15 mins and the motor was cooked. Dead. Kapput. Scrap metal.
But versatile, OK with light cuts. And I use mine for al the tiddly jobs too small for my 8in lathe. I re-motored mine with a £3 DC brush motor, & £ 3 voltage converter for variable speed.
K2

clockworkcheval said:
The heyday of conventional machining sees a daily revival in the common workshop of our horological society 'Klokkengroep 's-Hertogenbosch' in The Netherlands. Many of our members prefer a shaper over a mill, and some members believe that using a lathe can come in handy, but all other work should be done by filing. Recently a small group caused a subdued uproar by selecting waterjet cutting to machine the blanks of steel gearwheels of a mediaeval clock. A side benefit is that our subcontractor publicized a short case story about it. They did some kneading and weeding to our submitted story, and sprinkled it with some commercial wording, but the result gives a nice impression of our work and workshop: https://xometry.pro/en-eu/stories/horological-society-barentsz-clock .

I have two clocks over 100 years old. Both work.

The one like I got 10th birthday. I never had wind or replaced batteries.
You find on Ebay

They both America and UK version.
English version

The one I have since 1964

I could great project too.
Brass and plastic. Use only cellphone case.

Here chart for Earth correction in America

vintage-1920s-ansonia-sunwatch-pocket_1_8d094671b844b36258ca2a466ee0354d.jpg

Here chart for Earth correction in England

󠁧

If note the righthand column is same for the USA and UK.
Thr left side is to correct for today time zone and Latitude

Dave

Daryl_bee · Dec 4, 2024

SmithDoor said:
I have two clocks over 100 years old. Both work.

The one like I got 10th birthday. I never had wind or replaced batteries.
You find on Ebay
They both America and UK version.
English version

The one I have since 1964

I could great project too.
Brass and plastic. Use only cellphone case.

Here chart for Earth correction in America

Here chart for Earth correction in England

Dave

Why buy when you can make? (pictures are clickable). I made this close to 40 years ago. Hasn't broken down once but I guess if it did it would be the end of the world anyway!

http://surfin_dude.tripod.com/creative/astronomy/astronomy.html#Sundial

clockworkcheval · Dec 4, 2024

The first church clocks were so rough in representing time even with their one pointer that quite often a sundial was mounted next to it in order to get the time right at least once a day, sun permitting. A typical example is the Pilgrim Fathers Church in Delfshaven, The Netherlands, from where the Pilgrim Fathers left for America in 1620. The current facade was rebuilt in 1761 and still has the combination Church Clock plus Sundial. See enclosed pictures.

Clock and Sundial Pilgrim Fathers Church.JPG

SmithDoor · Dec 4, 2024

Daryl_bee said:
Why buy when you can make? (pictures are clickable). I made this close to 40 years ago. Hasn't broken down once but I guess if it did it would be the end of the world anyway!
View attachment 162111

http://surfin_dude.tripod.com/creative/astronomy/astronomy.html#Sundial

The hard part is the case.
I look at cellphone folding covers. It will do a great job.
The face I look plating the numbers on or itching even painting.
I found printing on photo paper then plexiglass over paper is easy way and will last a long time.
I have this too on other projects. If like screen printing and plating you great engine tags .

Dave

Screenshot_20241204-103206_Files by Google-01.jpeg

SmithDoor · Dec 4, 2024

I found a lot tags and labels are screen printed with lacquer.
I have also used offset printing plates .

Thr Lazer printing on photo paper and plexiglass cover is easy and long lasting. Great for lot of projects and rebuilding

Dave

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