Suggestions for First I.C. Engine

Danuzzo · Aug 11, 2024

I have built model steam engines that run on compressed air. 2 of the 3 run well; but, the 3rd one with a rotary valve won't run, even after rebuilding parts. All 3 were built from bar stock with free online plans.

I would like to try my hand at an I.C. engine that I can get to run. I would like to build from bar stock and free or minimal cost plans. On the smaller side would be the size I desire. Would like one to run with easily available and inexpensive ignition system.

I would greatly appreciate suggestions.

Rdean33422 · Aug 11, 2024

David Kerzel horizontal hit-miss engine.
The plans are freely available, built from bar stock, and get ignition module from China.
This is the first engine that I built and checks all your wants.

Ray

wce4 · Aug 11, 2024

Danuzzo said:
I have built model steam engines that run on compressed air. 2 of the 3 run well; but, the 3rd one with a rotary valve won't run, even after rebuilding parts. All 3 were built from bar stock with free online plans.

I would like to try my hand at an I.C. engine that I can get to run. I would like to build from bar stock and free or minimal cost plans. On the smaller side would be the size I desire. Would like one to run with easily available and inexpensive ignition system.

I would greatly appreciate suggestions.

By any chance was the 3rd one with a rotary valve called the River Queen Open Column Launch Engine by edelstaal. I failed to get that engine to run after numerous tries at machining that rotary valve.

Danuzzo · Aug 12, 2024

wce4 said:
By any chance was the 3rd one with a rotary valve called the River Queen Open Column Launch Engine by edelstaal. I failed to get that engine to run after numerous tries at machining that rotary valve.

Yes. The plans were from a 1972 publication.

Longboy · Aug 12, 2024

Your post is just screaming to do a WEBSTER!

Danuzzo · Aug 12, 2024

I've looked at the Kerzel plans and the Webster plans, as suggested above. I like them both; however, I am a little timid regarding the gears that need to be made for the Webster. Further information would be appreciated. Thanks for the replies.

danallen · Aug 13, 2024

Danuzzo said:
I am a little timid regarding the gears that need to be made for the Webster.

It may not being the spirit of an engine building forum but I have often bought gears on eBay. Usually I only need one and it is cheaper to buy the gear than the cutter to make it.

kf2qd · Aug 13, 2024

Check out this design.
https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/60-model-airplane-engine.29237/
I designed this as a project for a 1 semester machine tool practice course I taught when i was in university.
2" aluminum bar, a piece of 4140 for the crankshaft and a cast iron cylinder liner.

Danuzzo · Aug 13, 2024

kf2qd said:
Check out this design.
https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/60-model-airplane-engine.29237/
I designed this as a project for a 1 semester machine tool practice course I taught when i was in university.
2" aluminum bar, a piece of 4140 for the crankshaft and a cast iron cylinder liner.

Thank you. Certainly has my attention. Couple questions. Is there a replacement for the cast iron liner? Could the entire cylinder be made of C93200 bearing bronze (Rancon 660) or some other material besides c.i. (I have plenty of the bronze).

Also, what is used to start it?

Do you have a photo of a completed engine?

Richard Hed · Aug 14, 2024

danallen said:
It may not being the spirit of an engine building forum but I have often bought gears on eBay. Usually I only need one and it is cheaper to buy the gear than the cutter to make it.

I would prefer not to buy from Alibaba (and the 40 thieves) or Made in China, but ofthen the product is far cheaper even than ebag which is just another commercial outlet now not waht it started out as. When in the Philippines I buy from a place called "Shopee" which is even cheaper than alibaba and is delivered to your door COD. I bought HSS, other tools and 45deg angled gears. very cheap. Shopee is all over SE Asia, so if you are in that area try it.

tractor162003 · Aug 14, 2024

The Hit & Miss that I made I got the gears out of a 2 1/2 hp B&S engine.

Danuzzo · Aug 14, 2024

With regard to the gears, if I make one with gears, I will just have to learn how to make them. Nothing wrong with trying to learn something new and expanding my experience.

kf2qd · Aug 14, 2024

Danuzzo said:
Thank you. Certainly has my attention. Couple questions. Is there a replacement for the cast iron liner? Could the entire cylinder be made of C93200 bearing bronze (Rancon 660) or some other material besides c.i. (I have plenty of the bronze).

Also, what is used to start it?

Do you have a photo of a completed engine?

The picture at the left is the engine I built and still have.
It uses a standard model airplane glow plug,(1/4-32 thread) requires a 1.5 volt battery to heat it up. Runs on model airplane glow fuel. Once it starts the battery is disconnected and the heat in the heating element, the additional heat of ignition and some chemical reaction with the heating coil keeps it running.

Danuzzo · Aug 14, 2024

kf2qd said:
The picture at the left is the engine I built and still have.
It uses a standard model airplane glow plug,(1/4-32 thread) requires a 1.5 volt battery to heat it up. Runs on model airplane glow fuel. Once it starts the battery is disconnected and the heat in the heating element, the additional heat of ignition and some chemical reaction with the heating coil keeps it running.

Thanks. I am familiar with the glow plug system, although it has been quite a few years. I used to fly control line planes in the 1970's (Lil Satan and Ringmaster, as well as the plastic ones I started on). Most were with Cox .049 engines and 1 was a Fox which was much larger. I guess the glow plugs, batteries and fuel are still available.

pileskis · Aug 14, 2024

I would look at an Upsur vertical engine.
His designs are pretty foolproof. The two gears needed are readily available. (Amazon). Plans are well detailed. Can use o ring for the piston without issue.

Sid

Danuzzo · Aug 15, 2024

Looks like cast iron is used on the cylinders of most of the engines listed above. Is there a good substitute for cast iron?

pileskis · Aug 15, 2024

Danuzzo said:
Looks like cast iron is used on the cylinders of most of the engines listed above. Is there a good substitute for cast iron?

I’ve used 12L14 without issue.

Sid

Steamchick · Aug 16, 2024

I made an Atmospheric gas engine that came with a bronze casting for the cylinder. Just as durable as cast iron for cylinder use, but more expensive! Still needs good lubrication though so it doesn't wear. At the local club there are locos with cast iron cylinders as well as bronze cylinders. Both work fine and are similarly durable...
I have a Moto Guzzi motorcycle with Nicasil cylinders and aluminum pistons. Nicasil is a plating on aluminium bores. Let's 10 times longer than cast iron bores without wear! Any mild steel should be as good as cast iron. But you have to machine fins for air cooling, if appropriate, instead of casting fins... A water jacket can be made as a close fit to a cylinder, then loctited to seal against leakage, if water cooled. Cast iron isn't really the best material, but certainly cheap for making complex shapes, and thus reducing machining costs.And scrap is easily recycled! So when cast iron is adequate, other advantages count.
But modern cars mostly use steel piston rings for durability, instead of cast iron. Phased out in the 1990s. Saucepans can still be bought in cast iron, but most are PTFE cater aluminium today... (since 1950s).
How authentic do you want your engine to be? Many model steam locos that have had frequent weekend work have worn out cylinders in 20 to 30 years. But it is easy to rebore, make bigger pistons and rings, and re-build as new with both bronze and cast iron cylinders....
K2

pileskis · Aug 16, 2024

No need to complicate a first IC build.
Look around, there are plenty of basics , low cost, well designed offerings.
Let’s face it, our engines usually sit on shelves for long periods of time, and run time is very limited.

Sid

Danuzzo · Aug 16, 2024

Not concerned about longevity of the engine. Just want it to run well.

Suggestions for First I.C. Engine

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