Request - Injector designs

Find deals on amazon
Advertise with us
Shop deals on ebay
Home Model Engine Machinist Forum

Help Support Home Model Engine Machinist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
T

The Ignoble Troll

Well-Known Member
HMEM Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2024
Messages
346
Reaction score
153
Location
Canada
Hello,

I was curious and hopeful that those folk who have successfully built their own diesel injectors, might share their designs and words of wisdom in this thread.

There is a bunch of fantastic work spread across the site and for those of us dreaming of compression ignition, it would be great if the successfully completed injectors were shared in one place.

Any and all info would be immensely helpful.

Thanks,

From under a bridge.
 
hola estaria bien que todo estaria en un mismo sitio
 
I am very much an experimenter and don't produce real drawings like Minh. There is a lot of technique and feel in producing miniature injectors without a full toolroom and metrology lab available. I will share the drawings the I have however all the manufacturing detains are on:

https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php

You need to sign up to see the pictures (same user name and Avatar)
 
Here are a few that I have made. The poppet injector works and is the basis of Minh's design. The open injector with a 0.2 mm nozzle wouldn't run and the latest needle injector runs quite well.

There are significant detail points.
The angle of the cone on the poppet injector is critical but difficult to measure. If the angle is too acute it just jams up. My first attempt was with a floating needle but this was not consistent so the current version has the needle guided with 4 small slots milled in the guide section to allow the fuel to flow through.
The open injector was an experiment after the needle in an injector jammed and I wondered if a 0.2mm nozzle would work
open. It didn't, the atomisation is evidently happening in the very small lift of the needle.
The current needle injector tries to reduce the critical machining operations but the concentricity is ensured by the accuracy of the lands on the end of the body and the nozzle and the bore of the fixing nut. It works well but the long 1mm drilling thorough the body and the attachment of the inlet union are not easy.
Poppet injector.jpg
Open Injector.jpg
Modified injector.jpg
 
Many thanks to both minh-thanh and Roger B. for contributing to the public knowledge base.

I'd like to ask a question about springs for injectors.
It would seem that the main objective of the spring is to prevent opening of the injector until sufficiently higher pressure is achieved in the fuel, and closing the injector once the fuel pressure has subsided.

Has anyone experimented or considered using Bellville washers (disc springs) instead of coil springs? They have a very high spring constant for a short length, and seem like they would be suited for the purposes of miniaturizing the injectors. Also from my reading it looks like there is almost no travel of the pintle or needle on these injectors - the pressure probably goes down very fast as soon as the injector begins to lift off its seat.
What are the possible downsides to using bellville washers in this application that I'm not seeing?
 
ninefinger said:
Many thanks to both minh-thanh and Roger B. for contributing to the public knowledge base.

I'd like to ask a question about springs for injectors.
It would seem that the main objective of the spring is to prevent opening of the injector until sufficiently higher pressure is achieved in the fuel, and closing the injector once the fuel pressure has subsided.

Has anyone experimented or considered using Bellville washers (disc springs) instead of coil springs? They have a very high spring constant for a short length, and seem like they would be suited for the purposes of miniaturizing the injectors. Also from my reading it looks like there is almost no travel of the pintle or needle on these injectors - the pressure probably goes down very fast as soon as the injector begins to lift off its seat.
What are the possible downsides to using bellville washers in this application that I'm not seeing?
Click to expand...
I think they would work. And of course you can have whatever spring constant you like by stacking them. However I suspect many of us know how to wind coil springs on the lathe, so making custom ones is fairly straightforward vs buying bellville washers.
 
I have studied the injector that Find Hansen built, and he describes the construction at 21:50 in this video.

As I understand it, his injector is built just like a standard gasoline engine 4-cycle valve, but very tiny.

I think he said that in order to get a good seal, and prevent pressure from forcing fuel backwards in the injector line, he uses this approach.
The pressure from his pump forces the valve up off its seat, and then the cylinder pressure closes the injector.

And I think he has a check valve in his fuel line somewhere.

His injector seems to work well, and he also seems to have good speed control with his variable throw injector fuel pump.

Has anyone else duplicated/verified Find's injector build method ?

 
The Ignoble Troll said:
Thank you @minh-thanh, that's awesome of you!
Click to expand...
ninefinger said:
Many thanks to both minh-thanh and Roger B. for contributing to the public knowledge base.
Click to expand...
Just a plan and hope it gives you some ideas...
Designing an injector is not too difficult, the real thing is making it sealed.
In the attached picture - The design on the right I used in my 4 cylinder engine, it is quite compact - maybe I will use that design in all future diesel engines

Assembly Injector OK.jpg
 
GreenTwin said:
I have studied the injector that Find Hansen built, and he describes the construction at 21:50 in this video.

As I understand it, his injector is built just like a standard gasoline engine 4-cycle valve, but very tiny.

I think he said that in order to get a good seal, and prevent pressure from forcing fuel backwards in the injector line, he uses this approach.
The pressure from his pump forces the valve up off its seat, and then the cylinder pressure closes the injector.

And I think he has a check valve in his fuel line somewhere.

His injector seems to work well, and he also seems to have good speed control with his variable throw injector fuel pump.

Has anyone else duplicated/verified Find's injector build method ?

Click to expand...


Find Hansen’s design is similar to that used in the GM 5.7 Litre diesel engine. It has the benefit of only one critical sealing point and no requirement for a fuel leak off. The problem is accurately controlling the angle of the cone. If it is too acute it jams and too obtuse will bring a spray that won’t suit the combustion chamber. Both Minh and I used this style as our first successful (as in the engine ran) small injector design. As I said above I got more consistent results by guiding the needle as in the GM version rather than letting it float like Find Hansen.

Poppet Nozzle.JPG
Find Hansen Injector 1.JPG
 
ninefinger said:
Many thanks to both minh-thanh and Roger B. for contributing to the public knowledge base.

I'd like to ask a question about springs for injectors.
It would seem that the main objective of the spring is to prevent opening of the injector until sufficiently higher pressure is achieved in the fuel, and closing the injector once the fuel pressure has subsided.

Has anyone experimented or considered using Bellville washers (disc springs) instead of coil springs? They have a very high spring constant for a short length, and seem like they would be suited for the purposes of miniaturizing the injectors. Also from my reading it looks like there is almost no travel of the pintle or needle on these injectors - the pressure probably goes down very fast as soon as the injector begins to lift off its seat.
What are the possible downsides to using bellville washers in this application that I'm not seeing?
Click to expand...

Depending on the details of the design Bellville washers may block the fuel flow wheras it will flow through a coil spring. They will also require a fine adjustment of the closed length to set the load correctly.
Do you have a source of small Bellville washers ~1.5mm bore, 3mm OD?
 
Roger B said:
Find Hansen’s design is similar to that used in the GM 5.7 Litre diesel engine. It has the benefit of only one critical sealing point and no requirement for a fuel leak off. The problem is accurately controlling the angle of the cone. If it is too acute it jams and too obtuse will bring a spray that won’t suit the combustion chamber. Both Minh and I used this style as our first successful (as in the engine ran) small injector design. As I said above I got more consistent results by guiding the needle as in the GM version rather than letting it float like Find Hansen.

View attachment 157965View attachment 157966
Click to expand...
It's the tiny size of Mr. Hansen's injectors that gets me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

joco-nz
BF20/G0704 Spindle Belt Drive Advice/Info Request
Replies
19
Views
12K
joco-nz
joco-nz
H
Otto 4 stroke completed - Richard Higby
Replies
9
Views
5K
higbyrichard
H
PatrickM
60cc 2 Stroke Gas Crankshaft Design and Materials
Replies
17
Views
8K
canadianhorsepower
canadianhorsepower
K
New CI Design in Princeton, NJ
Replies
4
Views
2K
kspringer80
K
D
An experimental engine
Replies
2
Views
3K
robcas631
robcas631

Latest posts

Back
Top