Warco ZX15 Mill/Drill spindle runout

[skyline1]

Hi All

I have just acquired a Warco ZX 15 mill/drill with quite a bit of spindle run-out, the spindle bearings need adjusting or replacing if they are not adjustable

But I have no manual for the machine nor it's original tools (If supplied) so I have no idea of how to do this. Does anyone have any experience of these machines or better still a manual for one.

I don't want to start thumping and bashing things until I have an idea of how the spindle assembly goes together.

Best Regards Mark

 

[Chiptosser]

How are you checking the run-out? In a drill chuck, collet?
Or are you referring to movement of the quill in the head?

 

[skyline1]

I tried with a DTI against a piece of 10mm silver steel held in a collet chuck that's how I discovered it. If I touched the silver steel the DTI went wild 20 - 30 thou' or more and I could actually feel a slight clunk if I pressed it sideways. This was with the quill position locked as if for a milling operation so it's not in the quill.

Same thing happens if I measure against the collect chuck itself or the spindle nose. a bit less but still about 12 thou' and an appreciable sideways clunk.

 

[TonyM]

They should be taper roller bearings so check for adjusting nuts on top of the spindle. There were a few generic models out for that type including Chester Champion and probably Grizly too if you check for manuals.

 

[skyline1]

Thanks Tony,

Yes I believe the old style Chester Champion was identical to this and they were originally made in Taiwan. The date of the machine is 2004 and given that the rest of the machine is in immaculate condition I think that an adjustment is all that is required.

I have managed to take the pulley off and the casting under it, this has 2 standard 6007 ball races in it to take the drive from the spindle these felt a little rough so i'm going to replace them while I've got it to bits. They are open bearings but there seems to be no apparent means of greasing them, strange !

Underneath I found this,

I think this might be the adjusting nut but it is buried down in the head and seems very tight it is probably the locknut. This machine has no spindle lock either so undoing it is tricky any ideas anyone ?

On the underside of the spindle there is this

As you can see this also appears to have holes for a peg spanner could this be the adjuster ? or both of them.

Best Regards Mark

 

[TonyM]

If they are 6007 deep groove then they are not adjustable. The nut you see is to retain the bearing on the quill. Sounds like they need replacing. A good option would be 6007-2RS. These would be prepacked and maintenance free. Get a good quality set.

 

[skyline1]

Thanks Tony

Yes good advice about bearings, no cheap Chinese ones for this job and I think I will use 2RS ones.

The nut in the photo is below the 2 bearings at the top and independent from them I think they are to take the drive from the pulley.

The splined spindle slides inside them. I think there must be more bearings further down to support the bottom of the spindle and that seems to be where the play is.

I have now noticed that there is a little axial up and down play as well which is why I think there might be an angular bearing somewhere, if this was badly worn or needed adjustment it would cause both sideways and up/down play.

Best Regards Mark

 

[skyline1]

Some progress guys,

I EMailed Warco to see if they had a manual for the machine and to my utter surprise They did ! They have emailed me a copy F.O.C. and it has exploded views of the whole machine.

I was right in thinking that there must be another bearing somewhere, according to the exploded view there are 3 of them ! which makes a total of 5 bearings in the spindle assembly quite impressive for a machine of this size and spec.

They should be taper roller bearings so check for adjusting nuts on top of the spindle. There were a few generic models out for that type including Chester Champion and probably Grizly too if you check for manuals.

Tony you were spot on with this, it looks like they are taper bearings and this is indeed the adjusting nut.

Armed with my exploded view I had another delve into the greasy depths of that casting recess and all became clear. What was marked on the drawing as simply "washer" is a tab washer to keep the adjusting nut in place. This explains why it was reluctant to move, good job I didn't try to "persuade" it too hard I might have damaged something.

So now, it should be be a simple matter of holding the spindle still, knock back the tab washer and take up the nut a little. (I hope)

Many thanks for your help on this guys and I shall report back if the operation is successful.

Best Regards Mark

 

[oldengineguy]

Take it apart and replace the bearings! You will be farther ahead than trying to adjust old ,suspect ones. IMHO. Colin

 

[TonyM]

Take it apart and replace the bearings! You will be farther ahead than trying to adjust old ,suspect ones. IMHO. Colin

I Agree. New bearings would be best.

 

[Steamchick]

With all (rolling) bearings, as soon as there is measurable play, after contact pressure has dropped to zero (pre-load has dissapeared) the bearing will start to oscillate, causing "hammer" and fatigue of the tracks. This will resonate - which exacerbates the wear - and eventually the sub-surface below the hard skin on the tracks deforms in a pattern related to the resonance and number of rolling elements (plus one). This then allows fatigue of the hard surface which will eventually crack and flake off (microscopically). The debbris, will then rapidly deteriorate the wear to total failure.
With play in your bearings, you'll be a long way into the life before failure, so please fit new bearings (correctly of course!). I would have thought Warco would have advised that?
Enjoy!
K2

 

[MisterFixIt1952]

If you have play in your formerly preloaded bearings, definitely replace them. You don't have to even replace them with the highest-rated bearings. A good brand of mid-range bearings is not that expensive and well worth the effort. Check out youtube for some good videos regarding spindle rebuilding. You will get good tips on lubrication and preloading.

 

[skyline1]

Having thought on this a little, and now I am a bit clearer on how to dismantle it all, I agree It would be much better (and cheaper in the long term) to change them all as I am changing the pulley bearings anyway.

Good quality (if not highest quality) bearings are relatively inexpensive and Chinese knock offs are dirt cheap, but I definitely won't be going that route on this job, these will be branded ones from a reputable source.

I have changed many motor and gearbox bearings in the past, including some preloaded ones so I know the correct method to do it (and some incorrect ones occasionally) but this was done in much better equipped workshops than my little home shop.

Overall I feel fairly confident especially if I can get the whole quill/spindle assembly out as a unit so I can work on it on the bench.

Best Regards Mark

 

[Steamchick]

Hi Mark,
You have set me thinking that I should change my bearings on a "rattley" Champion mill-drill. Please can you copy me with the Warco manual? (If a suitable file?).
Also, A few steps of which end to start and tips on what to do (e.g. the tab-washer bit!). I have never dismantled a quill, through motorcycle engines and gear-boxes are bread and butter skills for me. Just good to hear the gremlins that someone else has found, so I can be prepared! Does the quill come out of the bottom, or through the top of the Machine head? I have limited headroom and side clearance, and clearance beneath so will need a bit of jiggery-pokery to fiddle it either which way... removing a shelf will probably permit me to rotate the whole head so it is beyond the end of the bench so it can drop out the bottom - if that's the way to do it?
Thanks,
K2

 

[skyline1]

I am still awaiting a couple of tools so I haven't fully dismantled mine yet but the manual is attached to this post. I think you will be able to download it directly but if not contact me and I'll P.M. you a copy. I assume this is the old type Champion you are talking about the new one is quite different

To get to the bearing adjuster do the following :

Move the motor as if you were changing speed and slip the belt off

Hold the pulley and remove the castle nut on top of it (you can either use the belt as a kind of spanner or pop something in the spindle taper and hold that) It shouldn't be particularly tight mine wasn't, a few gentle taps with a soft headed punch should loosen it or a 'C' spanner if you have a suitable one

Remove the pulley. either with a bearing puller or a couple of big screwdrivers it might be a bit tight on the keyway but luckily on this one it's steel not aluminium so you can apply a fair bit of force without damaging it.

remove the 3 capscrews from the casting below and lift this out this will remove the spindle drive bearing assembly which can be dismantled in the usual way if required, note that one of the bearings is held in by big circlips so you will need some solid circlip pliers (one of the tools I;m waiting for I didn't have any internal ones big enough)

Below this you should find the bearing adjusting nut as in the above picture and it's dreaded tab washer you will need to clean some of the black grease away to see it and a strong light is required, I used the mill's own worklight very handy !

lock the quill, in it's highest position and hold the spindle to stop it rotating, I put a large drill in the taper and clamped it gently to two pieces of wood held in the machine vice, loosen the vice clamping bolts to stop it putting to much side thrust of the spindle.

The tab washer can now be knocked down with a small pin punch and the adjusting nut should now be able to be tapped round again with a soft punch.

If you have stripped motorcycle gearboxes most of this will be "old hat" to you and not particularly difficult, Bike boxes are much more tricky than this, they have a nasty habit of simply exploding in a cloud of gears and springs and stuff when you split them.

I haven't dismantled one of these before either so we will both be on the same learning curve, The exploded views in the manual although not particularly detailed or descriptive are of help though

The next stage is to try to get the quill out I shall keep you all informed on progress.

Best Regards Mark

 

[Steamchick]

Thanks Mark, sounds sensible. I have a job set-up so won't attack a strip-down immediately, but in a week or 3 I guess...
I'll study the manual tomorrow! I'm pretty sure the pdf should open with my desktop PC.
Great stuff!
K2

 

[Steamchick]

Hi Mark,
I have just been reading the manual - and lo! My Mill-drill is the equivalent of the MAJOR miller... so not quite the same as yours.
I'll have to get a manual for mine. But I am pretty sure the structure will be very similar, so thanks for the excellent instructions on stripping the quill. I look forward to reading more when you get the tools and can proceed.
Keep up the good work.
K2

 

[Steamchick]

Just managed to order the manual for my "30" mill-drill from ebay...
So now awaiting deleivery....
K2

 

[goldstar31]

I have assumed that mills and lathes are \generic' despite being \badged' by Imorters
So give or take minor differences, they are all 'What Fitz Henry FitzWilliam' and My manual was for my Warco ihas a manual from Haebor Freight and your lathe from Chester is out of the same stable as as my 'new' ArcEurotrade one which re[;aced the Axminster one that came from Sieg. and probaly Warco and a rash of all things American and Australian!

NORMAN

 

[SmithDoor]

Run-out 0.000,5" for most work.
I like Run-out 0.000,1"

Dave

Hi All

I have just acquired a Warco ZX 15 mill/drill with quite a bit of spindle run-out, the spindle bearings need adjusting or replacing if they are not adjustable

But I have no manual for the machine nor it's original tools (If supplied) so I have no idea of how to do this. Does anyone have any experience of these machines or better still a manual for one.

I don't want to start thumping and bashing things until I have an idea of how the spindle assembly goes together.

Best Regards Mark