Sieg SX2.7 Mill

[kiwi2]

Hi All,
On 10/10/15 I ordered a Sieg SC4 lathe and an SX2.7 mill from the local Sieg rep. The rep here in New Zealand doesn't have a show room and I ordered both items sight unseen based on various favourable reviews I found on the net. About a month later I received an E-mail from the rep saying both machines were being made in China. The rep could never give me an ETA as apparently the shipping notifications he receives only list the container contents as "machine tools" so he never knows what is coming until the container is opened.
The lathe finally turned up on 24/12/15 with the mill expected in "a couple of weeks".
I was pretty shocked at the lathe which I found to be badly designed and made. If I'd had the chance to see it before I ordered it I wouldn't have touched it with a 10 foot barge pole. Notwithstanding this however, I resolved to give it a fair trial before I made a decision as to whether to persist with it or not. Needless to say I was nervous about what I would find with the mill.
I still haven't got the mill 3 1/2 months after initially ordering it and was told a couple of days ago that it still hadn't left China.
Frank Hoose reviewed the mill on YouTube about 5 months ago. From what I can gather Sieg provided the mill to him for the review, presumably because they were going to release it on the American market. I can't find any sign of it on either the Grizley or little machine tool websites and I'm wondering if the release has been delayed or abandoned, which would leave me with an orphan machine when/if I get it.
Has anyone bought or seen the SX2.7 mill anywhere in the world to date? If so, what are their thoughts on it?
I'm on the verge of writing off the $690 deposit I paid and telling the rep to forget it. Better that maybe than run the risk of having more than $2,000 of junk sitting on my bench.
What do the rest of you think?
Regards,
Alan C.

 

[bazmak]

Hi ,i got the SC$ lathe and i am very pleased with it.It arrived within 3 days of order from melbourne to adelaide the same co in Melbourne also sell the mill with same delivery.Where exactly are you in the world and who did you order from ?

 

[kiwi2]

Hi Barry,

I'm in New Zealand. The Sieg agents used to be Machinery House but they lost/surrendered the agency. The new Sieg representative has a warehouse but no showroom and a limited inventory. Both of the items I ordered needed to be imported.

Regards,
Alan C.

 

[Bluechip]

We seem to have the SX2.7 in the UK. One supplier here, I don't know of others.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-engineer-series-x2-7-sx2-7-mill-drills-ax958295

But I don't have one nor do I know anyone who has ...

D.

 

[Wizard69]

Can you tell us what is wrong with the lathe? It is fairly well known around the net that the lathes need work upon arrival. Is yours out of the ordinary and especially bad in some regard?

As for your importer; if there isn't enough business in country to keep a business afloat you will have a difficult time finding a stable company. At that point you might be better off importing yourself. This isn't ideal if you don't have experience with customs and importing stuff but it is a viable avenue.

As for the Seig lathe the price you pay is why high quality machines are no longer on the market. People have taken to buying on price driving the quality manufactures out of business. Southbend and a number of other companies went out of business simply because people think cheap instead of quality.

 

[Jasonb]

Axminster have only started advertising the 2.7 in the last month or so and did have one at the London MEX last weekend. As it is so new I doubt you will find may who can comment on it.

What did you find that was badly made and designed, I assume the other reviews you read did not have the same issues?

I've had a Sieg X3 for 9 years and in the right hands its a very capable and accutare machine, have a look back through some of my build threads to see what comes off it.

 

[kiwi2]

Hi Jason,
It was the SC4 lathe I was disappointed with. I haven't got the SX2.7 mill yet, and based on what I saw with the design and finish of the lathe - I'm not sure I want it. What was your experience with the X3 mill? Could you use it straight out of the box or did you need to work on it before you could use it?
Hi Wizard,
The two main problems I have with the finish on the lathe are the tailstock and the longitudinal apron travel.
The finish on the base of the tailstock was so bad it rocked diagonally on the ways. To get it to a stage where I could use it I determined which of the extreme rock positions was parallel with the bed, placed a strip of 600# emery paper under the flat side of the base and moved it back and forth in the parallel position until both ends of the base showed evidence of being ground. You can see from the picture that the base still doesn't contact the bed fully, and I haven't addressed the poor finish in the V-way. I think I may get some lapping compound and lap the tailstock base with the bed using long strokes along the length of the bed. With any luck that should flatten the base without introducing any irregularities in the bed. I may need to shim it afterwards.
The other problem I have is the longitudinal travel. It's mostly OK till I get near the tailstock end where there is a tight spot. I can't see anything obviously wrong with the rack so I presume the problem is on the back side which I can't get at. I'm letting that problem lie at the moment and hope that with time the tight spot will wear away.
In terms of bad design, the list is long. I think part of the trouble is the provisions they have made to fit a mill. This has resulted in the shield at the back being too far back to be of any use (taken off), the wheel for moving the apron longitudinally frequently slipping out of gear (fit a spacer to keep it permanently engaged) and the inclusion of a set of gears (which need lubricating) in the drive to the chuck so it can be disengaged while still using the x and y autofeeds for the mill.
Other design failings include the guard for the chuck (I don't think anyone retains it) the lack of clearance between the top of the topslide and the centre of the headstock which means you need to be very careful in your choice of QCTP, the angle of the digital readout which means you can't read the top half without bending down, the use of a single half nut rather than a pair to engage the lead screw for thread cutting, the inadequate 40mm travel of the tail stock ( I should have picked that up from the specs) .............. and I could go on but I'm sure you get the drift. Apart from these specific points, I thought the lathe was what we used to call tinny.
Mind you, I have found the lathe to do a good job when cutting threads so I am withholding totally condemning it till I do a project on it. Unfortunately I can't do that until the mill arrives.
Regards,
Alan C.

 

[Jasonb]

All I did on the X3 on delivery was tighten up the spindle bearings a bit, in 9 years I have just needed to replace two toothed belts at £5 GBP each. And it has done a lot of work

I also have a far eastern lathe though not Sieg as I say to people they may be a bit rough around the edges but I'm happy with what work comes of them be it a large steam engine that will happily tick over on a few psi at very slow speed to a Glow ignition aero engine that will do 10,000rpm with good compression, no gaskets, seals or rings all fitted parts.

I also had an Emco before that (Emcomat8.6)

 

[Wizard69]

Alan, that is far worst than the norm I would say, sad to hear about the tailstock. As for tinny well it is a cheap Chinese lathe, I really don't expect robust construction when discussing these machines. I do expect that the basics are serviceable and frankly that tailstock isn't.

As for the tight slide, I'm of the opinion that any machine will have tight spots if no hand fitting is done. Even at Chinese labor rates you would dramatically increase the machines cost with hand scrapping. This is why many call these machines kits. It is also why you can pay the same price for 60 year old American built hardware around here. The low price on these Chinese imports is directly related to what has been left out of the machine and yes some of that is finish.

Sadly old machinery is slowly disappearing and it is very very hard for a quality manufacture to compete with the cut rate pricing on these machines. This is why Myford, Southbend and others went the way of the dodo. Myford and Southbend produced some really nice machines that people where too cheap to buy. Cheap is exactly what they get with the Chinese stuff though. You can't really blame the Chinese here as nobody was ever forced to buy cheap crap machinery from them.

 

[kiwi2]

The last couple of days I've been lapping the tailstock to the lathe bed. I got it sliding nicely and was in the process of putting 0.25mm shim stock into the tailstock to bring it back up to the correct height when I the shaft for the tightening cam came out. There is a recess in the shaft for an allen screw to engage to keep it in place - so no problem, just put the shaft back and tighten the screw. That's when I found that the recess misses the screw hole by a mile. The temperature here over the last couple of days has been over 30C with 100% humidity so I was in no mood to look at it philosophically. I've got back onto the local rep who will contact China. I guess I'll find out if Sieg stands behind its' products or if any fix is going to be down to me.
Alan C.

 

[bazmak]

sorry to hear of your problems and dissatishfaction with the lathe
I have had a few niggles with mine and rectified them as they became apparent
Hope you have better luck with the mill when it arrives.I would buy another
sc4 if they revised some of the design.My wish list would be,-
remove the chuck disengage for a possible mill
Add tumbler gears to reverse the leadscrew
Add a gearbox and do away with the set of SC gears
belt drive to the leadscrew to reduce noise
etc etc Apart from that its not at all bad