Shows keep getting smaller!

[stevehuckss396]

I've seen it on the forums, both this one and other groups. Guys are saying they are worried about shows getting smaller and are worried that they will be gone. We'll not all of you, but a good number of you, come to the show and leave your models at home. Instead of showing up empty handed maybe think about bringing your creations and filling those empty tables. The guys who do show are aging and won't be able to do it forever. There are many people, younger guys, who bring a few things in there pockets and tell me about There projects back at home. Bring them out! If the younger able guys don't start showing, the tables will continue to get emptier until there isn't much worth looking at. Don't complain that the tables were empty at a show you went to when you left a dozen models in your garage to go there.

Just Sayin!

 

[kf2qd]

Part of the problem is that thing called a funeral. Those in the hobby are growing older and there are not many coming along to replace them.

How many of you have a son or a daughter that is in this hobby? How many of you have a son or a daughter that is in the industry?

The same thing is happening in other hobbies also. The younger generation has different life experience than you do. In many cases it is because we have made it easier for our kids and they didn't have to learn the stuff we know to make a good income. Old cars are declining in value because the younger generation has a different take on what the cool cars are...

How many of you could get a job today using the skills that you use in your hobby? The skills that you learned when you were starting out...

 

[GreenTwin]

I was alarmed at the age of most of the group that was showing at the 2019 NAMES show.
Unfortunately I think we are at the end of an era.
Times are changing dramatically.
We are definitely not in Kansas anymore.

Edit:
I have tried to resurrect the foundry/casting part of the hobby.
I had the green twin engine at NAMES 2019, and displayed/mentioned it during the casting seminar that was held at that show.
Not a single person had any interest in the green engine, and most had only a mild interest in the seminar.
The seminar was a good effort, but lacked any real useful foundry/casting information.

I hope to transfer the knowledge of how to make gray iron model engine parts to some who will continue that work, before I go to the great workshop in the sky. Life is a finite thing, so do it now if you plan on building engines.
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[Danuzzo]

At least you have "shows". It's like a desert here. No shows anywhere nearby that I have ever known.

 

[GreenTwin]

I think all the old engine shows here have folded. We never had a model engine show here.

NAMES was a 12 hour drive one way for me.
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[stevehuckss396]

Well I think you missed the point. There are many who show up at shows that feel like there are too many empty tables but left their models at home.

 

[GreenTwin]

I hear what you are sayin.
Put up or shut up, as they say.
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[vederstein]

I believe the issue is the commitment. The 2024 Indiana show requested two full days to exhibit. I had two tables of engines, but as that I'm still employed, it took up my entire weekend and I only live 2-1/2 hours away from the show.

Perhaps a section where someone could bring a few engines for a couple of hours then split?

 

[GreenTwin]

I have a big problem with 2-day shows also.
I have to be back by Monday morning, for work, and so I can't remain on Sunday and still make it back Monday.
A 2-day show is 4 days of work lost for me, since two days are normally required for traveling.
Not complaining, just saying how it is for me, to give an idea of what I am capable of doing as far as show participation.

I really enjoy engine shows, but it is very challenging to just attend, much less display.
I don't have any good answers for it all.

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[stevehuckss396]

I had the same problem so I only showed on Saturday. If it's a requirement that we stay for 2 days then I'm not coming to show. But I think they would rather you come for one than not at all. Hopefully one of the organizers will chime in and give a report on this year and what will happen next year.

 

[ShopShoe]

The Future of "The Hobby?"

It's not just this group, I notice the same thing for lots of other smaller, focused public events. I have lots of theories why this is so, but it unfortunately is the way it is.

I speak from my own experience only, FWIW.

I have never been to one of the large engine shows, and I would probably act like what stevehucks has mentioned. I would not consider any of my offerings worth display. Besides the multi-day requirement, what else is now seen as a "why bother" by potential attendees and exihibitors?

The other reasons I am a no-show is that I know of nothing close to me: Lots of (expensive) travel and lodging and dining expenses are a deterrent, along with the time commitment. If I estimate the cost of a major trip I end up telling myself I could buy more tooling and maybe one of those exotic casting kits for the money involved. I can get a "good enough" experience online. and that is what the youngsters are doing.

So.... What would bring me out? Something that INCLUDES machining, modeling, and engines and mechanisms that is a smaller event. Perhaps lots of smaller events that are less formal and offer chances to get together.

I know from those who ask, here and in person, where can we meet? I think that more things need to be included: What about including the lego folks? What about the pointless-mechanism mechanical art makers? Not just using computers to drive CNC, but projects that include machining and electronics?

And then the word needs to go out, so that people know. For example: I am also somewhat of a "car guy" but impromptu car events in my area are only known by the same people who always come and not the public. Not even a hand-made sign identifying what is happening for the general public. Social Media works, but doesn't always reach everyone who might want to know.

And now the last word: Manners!

Act like an ambassador and a mentor. Leave the place cleaner than you found it and do what you can to have people interested enough to be wanting more. Leave the politics and confrontation at home.

 

[GreenTwin]

I took my green twin steam engine to NAMES in 2019, and exactly two people looked at it.
One person said "pretty cool", but neither person gave it more than a glance.
I was very disappointed, since I thought there would be more interest in making one's own engine castings, especially in gray iron.

However, what made the NAMES show for me was meeting and greeting both the exhibitors and vendors.
I could discuss "how it was made" things with the builders, and talk about "how to cast engine parts" with many of the vendors.
I don't have anything to compare NAMES to because that is the only model engine show I have ever attended.
What luck I had attending the last NAMES in history !
I told my wife "I have to attend the NAMES show this year, because what if something happens, and NAMES goes away?".
Prophetic to say the least.

It was intimidating to bring my lowly little green engine to NAMES, and set it out on the table while being surrounded by an entire arena full of museum-quality engines. I considered not showing the green twin, but I am glad I did, since I can now say I displayed an engine at the last NAMES in history.

I am hoping that some show that is within driving distance of me can take the place of NAMES, as far as the variety and size of the show, but I am afraid the NAMES days are gone for good. Perhaps someone will prove me wrong.

I have attended Algonquin several times, and while it is a general show with tractors, full size engines, crafts, animals, etc., it also has a fair number of model engines displayed. Algonquin is outdoors, and so subject to the weather.
I really like the hills around Algonquin; they are very scenic, and the folks are very nice at that show.
Algonquin has a large campground, which is a real plus, but they don't allow dogs, which is a huge minus, since my wife won't travel without her beloved dog.

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Edit:
Perhaps the future of model engine shows will be virtual shows, where everyone displays their engines at the same time, perhaps also with live streaming from each exhibitor.
This would allow a worldwide show to be held, assuming the time zones could be worked out.
Exhibitors could live stream from their home, so no travel time or expenses.
Like a giant zoom meeting/gathering.

 

[piper184]

"Our hobby/activity is dying" is a lament that has been heard for many years. And it is true in so many cases. Doesn't matter if it is machining, engines, airplanes, or motorcycles. State and county fairs are suffering from the same issues. Finding those that preserve food or sew clothes is getting harder every year. Consequently fewer people are interested in the efforts of others.

Shows are hard to put on. It takes a lot of organization and effort, especially when all those involved are volunteers. Finding the right venue is more and more difficult as the world changes around us. The facility has to be sized right, affordable and easily accessible to the public. Media exposure is as important as the venue.

Inflation is hard on everyone, vendors, exhibitors and the general public.

When a large swath of the population can't install a screw, they have no interest in how one is made. Sad.

I only have one friend that is even mildly interested in my machine shop and thinks that what I do is of value. Online forums are the only place I find like minded people. There are two shows within driving distance and both are pretty small and shrinking. I have a great time at each even though they are 325 and 225 miles one way. But, I am "on the inside" of the hobby.

The idea of a virtual show has some merit that should be pursued. But even that will take a fair amount of effort by volunteers getting the word out and setting up the live feeds. Even live online events suffer from the "on demand" mindset.

The world is much different than the one I grew up in. Sometimes I wish I could put it back the way it was....

I also wish I had the magic answer to this all too common problem.

 

[Richard Hed]

At least you have "shows". It's like a desert here. No shows anywhere nearby that I have ever known.

Well where is that? In Central Soviet (Washington State), as far as I know, there are no viable shows, but now I am temporarily in Nevada near Las Vegas and doesn't seem to be anything here either.

 

[Richard Hed]

I have a big problem with 2-day shows also.
I have to be back by Monday morning, for work, and so I can't remain on Sunday and still make it back Monday.
A 2-day show is 4 days of work lost for me, since two days are normally required for traveling.
Not complaining, just saying how it is for me, to give an idea of what I am capable of doing as far as show participation.

I really enjoy engine shows, but it is very challenging to just attend, much less display.
I don't have any good answers for it all.

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Well, you don't see ME attending NAMES or any other show on the east coast. It's far more than 12 hours for those of us on the Left coast--it would be easier to fly but I thimpfk the airlines might object to all those metal engines. ON the Left coast, I know that San Francisco must have a show but I never hear about it. Portland also might have a show or at least some place in Oregon. But if there is a show in the Soviet, I've never heard of it.

 

[Gordon]

The big problem as I see it is that we have the old frogs like me who think that is fun to stand in front of a lathe or mill and turn dials and try to figure out how to do the next operation. Then we have the younger generation who look at this and go to the computer and program the machine to do the actual machining. I am not saying that there is no merit in their approach but it is not for me and a lot of the older generation. Gone are the days when the likes of Rudy Kouhoupt bought an old worn out machine for scrap price and rebuilt it and compensated for the worn out parts. I did try CNC a few years ago. I purchased a mill that someone had started to modify for CNC and did not complete it. I did get everything to work but I soon decided that it was not my hobby goal. Back in the days when I owned a business I was looking for ways to make money. Now I am looking for a way to enjoy my hobby.

 

[GreenTwin]

I would really like some nice DRO's on the lathe and mill, instead of my ghetto $20 digital vernier calipers scabbed on, but there is only so much funding for my hobby, and I have put the money in a nice foundry.
My lathe and mill remain very cost-effective Grizzly equipment, which do an adequate job of machining with the clearances I need to run an engine.

I am not against CNC equipment, but I prefer to go the 3D printed pattern and casting route.

I visited a "machine shop" at a local technical college a few years ago, and one of their projects was for everyone in the class to make and operate their own model IC engine, and they were all on the tables and running.
Then I said "Where are the lathes and mills?".
The instructor said "Its all CNC; nobody in this class knows how to operate a lathe or a mill".
I sort of had a deer-in-the-headlights look.
Like I mentioned, we are not in Kansas anymore, and I am not sure if Kansas even exists at this point.

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[kuhncw]

Kansas is still there. I was there last week.

Chuck

 

[GreenTwin]

That is good to know.
LOL
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[Jasonb]

Regarding the one day or multiple days we have had similar here.

Usual practice was to drop off exhibits the day before or possibly early morning of the first day and then collect after closing on the last day. This meant two trips or staying over, three trips if you wanted the bargains on the first day. The more local ones I made the trips and exhibited. Did not do the ones further afield but just went as a punter on a single day to look and buy.

Recently the problem of people not being able to comit to the long in this case 4 day show came up and I was in contact with the show organizer as to the best way forward. In the end she agreed to my suggestion of allowing people from that group to attend on a single day. They would arrive early to get there models in and secure and leave late after the show with their model. We still had problems and only just managed to fill the stand for the 4 days, one person doing the Thursday and Friday and others doing a single day on the Sat & Sun.

So talk with the show organisers but don't be disappointed if they can't accomodate your needs as it is extra work for them and not much reward.

Oh and you can machine castings with CNC and 3D printing is really just CNC with plastic instead of woodwork if used to make patterns