Pewter

[Canyonman]

Would cast pewter be suitable for engine castings Steam and IC?
Thanks Ken

 

[Longboy]

You see pewter as a metal for jewelry, cast figurines and utensils. Soft metal. Unlikely suitable for machining and drilling.

 

[goldstar31]

You see pewter as a metal for jewelry, cast figurines and utensils. Soft metal. Unlikely suitable for machining and drilling.

I'd love a supply of pewter. It's essentially tin(98%) and melts and casts accurately.
With a sufficiently good wall thickness, it can save hours of machining harder metals but the
cost is perhaps £50 retail after VAT and other taxes.
Its a bit like whisky which should be the same price as sausage i.e 6 Pence a skinful.
I'll drink to that
Happy Christmas

 

[Richard Hed]

I'd love a supply of pewter. It's essentially tin(98%) and melts and casts accurately.
With a sufficiently good wall thickness, it can save hours of machining harder metals but the
cost is perhaps £50 retail after VAT and other taxes.
Its a bit like whisky which should be the same price as sausage i.e 6 Pence a skinful.
I'll drink to that
Happy Christmas

can you alloy pewter and alu?

 

[The_reach]

I have a lump of tin bar 50mm ish diameter, never tired cutting it or indeed used it for anything

 

[goldstar31]

can you alloy pewter and alu?

The research into aluminium and its alloys was published some 120 years ago . It and presumably later deliberations seems worth examining.

 

[MRA]

I bought some Pewter a little while ago, as it was easier to find and cheaper than tin. The stuff I found was about 90% tin, 10% lead. Used as the 'tin' part of 90:10 general purpose bronze, that should leave me with about 1% lead, which seems to be a figure which crops up in old books amongst the lists of alloys used for this, that and the other. After all I cast things out of old plumbing fittings too, where I don't know what's in it, and it seems to go OK.

 

[abby]

Modern pewter contains no lead , it has been banned by public health authorities , rather like lead in petrol and cadmium in silver solder.
One theory for the fall of the Roman empire is that the leaders were sent mad by lead ingested from their pewter tableware.
Aluminium and tin can be alloyed to form a metal suitable for bearings but I haven't come across any other use for such an alloy.
I used to run a business reclaiming tin from tinplate scrap by reverse electrolysis. We produced around 1000kg per year of tin at around 99.75% purity.
I still have a little stock if you require some Norman.
Dan.

 

[Shopgeezer]

So what is alloyed with the tin these days to make pewter? Or is pewter effectively extinct?

There is a theory that lead had an effect on the crews of the Franklin expedition in the Arctic. The tin can had just been invented and many were taken as stores on the ships. There was apparently high levels of lead in the solder used to make the cans. Examination of tins discarded in rubbish heaps on the shore showed great gouts of solder sticking into the inside of the cans. It is thought that food stored for a year in these tins would have been contaminated with lead from the solder and this contributed to the strange decisions that seemed to be made by the leaders of the expedition.

 

[goldstar31]

I still have a little stock if you require some Norman.
Dan.

Thanks Dan but 'No'
I think that my family would have epileptic fits. Now what i would like is to separate silver and mercury from dental amalgam. There is a bit of gold alloyed with platinum still lying about. Stuff from my late wife's student days in a happier world.
I was talking earlier to an oldish mate who still has his 64 year old Myford ML7 and he hinted that my son's Lotus is partly covered in gold leaf. Whatever next?

 

[goldstar31]

Regarding the franklin Expedition and - well- 70 or so years ago, terne plate was actually tinned rather than leaded. I recall having 'friendly' discussion with the chief or a chief buyer of a VERY large
can firm. At that point, steel was tinned with tin either by dipping or by electrolysis but once the tinplate was tinned, it was printed and for certain contents., much research went into the coating INSIDE the tin/can. One vegetable comes to mind which had to specially lacquered was processed peas.
Digressing but still keeping the metal theme, carbon dioxide- presumably as an acid and along with fruit acids rather than a gas could perforate aluminium.
Above all, it's very big subject and cannot be dismissed in a few glib sentences. It goes perhaps not monopolies but certainly oligopolies.

 

[Vietti]

Dont overlook the various zinc alloys. I've used ZAMAC with good result. Casts at low temp, nearly as strong as cast iron, great bearing material etc. I've used it to cast magneto bodies in aluminum sectional molds. There is a good discussion of this process in MEB magazine.

I think it would be good for casting engine blocks etc as long as weight is not a factor.

John

 

[abby]

Pewter is now tin with a small zinc content.
Many years ago I heard of a gent who made his living by collecting the square cans used for tinned ham ( thats ham in tins not coated with tin ).
He simply burned them in a wood fire and collected the solder that ran off.
How much silver amalgam do you have Norm ? reclaiming the precious content is not difficult.
You can PM if you prefer.
Dan.

 

[goldstar31]

Hi Dan
The place has been in virtual lockdown since mid Feb but if there is something that is published, I'd be pleased to receie it

Many Thanks

N

 

[Canyonman]

Great on the History Guys!!! Very interesting.
So, so far I gather it's a maybe?? I was thinking it would work for Steam and Sterling engines but would be questionable for IC engines.
Where might I source ZAMAK??
My problem with my own cast AL ingots is that they are very porous and machine poorly (gummy). It was all cast from AL scrap i.e. screen door frames, cans, small statues, utensils, etc. Can I re-melt with another metal to alloy? I saw tin mentioned above. Also I have read about "De-gassing? It seems like this might be in the wrong spot to continue, if so please advise.
Ken

 

[Richard Carlstedt]

.............................................There is a theory that lead had an effect on the crews of the Franklin expedition in the Arctic. The tin can had just been invented and many were taken as stores on the ships. There was apparently high levels of lead in the solder used to make the cans. Examination of tins discarded in rubbish heaps on the shore showed great gouts of solder sticking into the inside of the cans. It is thought that food stored for a year in these tins would have been contaminated with lead from the solder and this contributed to the strange decisions that seemed to be made by the leaders of the expedition.

I spent my very early career in a can plant and have a few comments . Yes, Tin Cans have been used for over 180 years. The "Side Seam " and the lids (called "ends")were hand soldered with 2/98 (Tin/Lead %) solder ( `612 F temp) and many times the insides had lumps of solder. Even when done by automation, the problem persisted. Food absorbed the lead and in the 1950-60's Japan led the battle to remove Lead from cans . . This led to the use of pure Tin solder in the 1970's by some can makers, but pure tin solder will crack after a period of time ( 2 yrs) and expose the contents to atmosphere ( spoilage). This led to the Welded 3 piece can ( 1 body & 2 ends) and that then became the 2 piece can where the steel body is drawn over a mandrel ( Technology learned from Aluminum beer cans )
Soldered cans were very susceptible to high acid foods as the acid absorbed the lead. Can coatings have made amazing progress in protecting our food integrity .
Rich

 

[Richard Carlstedt]

Canyonman
try McMaster Carr
https://www.mcmaster.com/zinc-alloys/Not sure which Zamak alloy that is , but you can check it out
Rich

 

[goldstar31]

Also I have read about "De-gassing? It seems like this might be in the wrong spot to continue, if so please advise.
Ken
[/QUOTE]

But "Google' is your friend. I never knew what went into to these tablets.

I know now. i may incur the wrath of all and sundry being 90+- but as I said-- Google is your friend
In the good or bad old days, there were fluxes for iron and steel. I have now an associate who used to be a member here and he is now selling the stuff as jewellery.
He also offered me a couple of alpaca goats for free, but that is quite another story .

 

[cobra]

So what is alloyed with the tin these days to make pewter? Or is pewter effectively extinct?

There is a theory that lead had an effect on the crews of the Franklin expedition in the Arctic. The tin can had just been invented and many were taken as stores on the ships. There was apparently high levels of lead in the solder used to make the cans. Examination of tins discarded in rubbish heaps on the shore showed great gouts of solder sticking into the inside of the cans. It is thought that food stored for a year in these tins would have been contaminated with lead from the solder and this contributed to the strange decisions that seemed to be made by the leaders of the expedition.

Modern Pewter is tin (91%), Antimony (7.5%), and Copper (1.5%)

 

[L98fiero]

There is a theory that lead had an effect on the crews of the Franklin expedition in the Arctic.

Apparently that wasn't more of a problem for them than pretty much everyone in Britain, high levels of lead were found in just about everyone at the time. Lead Poisoning Wasn't a Major Factor in the Mysterious Demise of the Franklin Expedition