Off-Grider Generator Kit

[minh-thanh]

Sure it does.
Works well.
I have been doing that for 40 years.
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Strange.....or is my understanding of electricity so poor...!!??
Do you have a diagram or similar to describe??

 

[GreenTwin]

I think power "converter" it the word I am looking for.
"Rectifier" is a poor choice of words.

DC input, AC output; can be done several ways.
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[bluejets]

I think power "converter" it the word I am looking for.
"Rectifier" is a poor choice of words.

DC input, AC output; can be done several ways.
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Granted. However DC does not rectify to AC.

 

[GreenTwin]

Granted. However DC does not rectify to AC.

It would require some type of triggered device to generate AC from DC.

I had a teacher tell me "there is no AC".
AC is varying DC.

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[GreenTwin]

My dad would go semi-off grid for about 4 weeks at a time, using propane for a stove and heating, block ice in a non-powered icebox, and coal-oil lamps for light.
Of course propane is not what I really consider "off-grid", but a large tank will last a long time.

I saw one fellow who burned sunflower seed shells to heat his house and several farm buildings.
You can burn corn too, but I would only do that with low-grade corn, or corn not suitable for consumption.

I saw a primitive refrigerator, which had an insulated box indoors, and two spheres (about 12" diameter each), connected with a tube that had an orifice. One sphere was heated on a fire, which forced what was probably ammonia to the other sphere.
Then the cold side was put into the refrigerator cabinet, with the hot side outside (refrigerator against an outside wall).
The escaping ammonia would cool the interior sphere that was inside the refrigerator.
I bit primitive, but I have seen one, and they were used.

A true off-grider, in my opinion, would have a well, a hand-powered water pump, a wood burning stove for cooking and heating, and something for lighting; not sure what.
The house my mother grew up in did not have electricity or plumbing, and had glass coal-oil lamps.
They must have had a wood stove.

Being able to grow your own food would be a real plus, but that would require a mule I guess.
And thus the expression "40 acres and a mule".

I talked to one woman who did grow all of her own food for about 2 years, but it is a lot of work, according to her.

Manual labor becomes a lot more difficult at the years pass; for me anyway.

For me, going completely off-grid is somewhat of a pipe dream, although I could actually do it if push came to shove.
I have visions of sitting in a log cabin, in front of a wood stove, with a big pot of coffee brewing, perhaps some bread baking, a nice comfy chair, a sink with hand pump, and not much else.
I like the idea of salted beef or pork so that no refrigeration would be needed, and home-canned food in a root cellar.
That is the dream.

Edit:
I read about someone installing two 5,000 gallon in-grade water tanks, to catch rainwater (someone out west in the US).
They said they don't get much rain, but with those tanks they only need rain a few times a year.

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[minh-thanh]

I had a teacher tell me "there is no AC".
AC is varying DC.

.

Maybe I need to relearn my knowledge or understanding of electricity !!!!!????

 

[The Ignoble Troll]

Sure it does.
Works well.
I have been doing that for 40 years.
.

I think his umbridge was with your use of " rectifier " when you obviously meant "inverter"

 

[The Ignoble Troll]

Maybe I need to relearn my knowledge or understanding of electricity !!!!!????

Teacher had it backwards lol

 

[GreenTwin]

I guess you could classify AC as voltage that is changing in polarity, and current which flows both directions, which DC does not do.

But like I tell people, current is current, and that is what you have to watch in power distribution systems, regardless of AC/DC.
In electronics you have to watch voltage and current, since electronics tend to be very sensitive to both.

If you read the fine print in the sales brochures, you can use AC rated electrical equipment on DC systems, but you have to de-rate it, since there is no zero voltage point in DC systems, and so contacts have to open under full voltage, and you get a lot more arcing.

I have seen people confused about whether a motor is 1-phase or 3-phase.
I can tell from the sound of it running, and the look of it.
3-phase motors are very smooth, since they produce a constant torque as the rotate.
And rotating motor shafts can look stationary under fluorescent lights, so you have to always assume a 3-phase motor is running, and avoid contact with any moving parts.

Yes, the word I had in mind was "inverter", not "rectifier".

Blogging along this morning, until the coffee starts peaking, then I will try to do something useful, like mow the grass.

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[The Ignoble Troll]

I guess you could classify AC as voltage that is changing in polarity, and current which flows both directions, which DC does not do.

But like I tell people, current is current, and that is what you have to watch in power distribution systems, regardless of AC/DC.
In electronics you have to watch voltage and current, since electronics tend to be very sensitive to both.

If you read the fine print in the sales brochures, you can use AC rated electrical equipment on DC systems, but you have to de-rate it, since there is no zero voltage point in DC systems, and so contacts have to open under full voltage, and you get a lot more arcing.

I have seen people confused about whether a motor is 1-phase or 3-phase.
I can tell from the sound of it running, and the look of it.
3-phase motors are very smooth, since they produce a constant torque as the rotate.
And rotating motor shafts can look stationary under fluorescent lights, so you have to always assume a 3-phase motor is running, and avoid contact with any moving parts.

Yes, the word I had in mind was "inverter", not "rectifier".

Blogging along this morning, until the coffee starts peaking, then I will try to do something useful, like mow the grass.

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Or how resistive loads vs inductive loads derate AC switches. I have some controllers that will handle 15amp resistive but only 3 inductive.

 

[GreenTwin]

Or how resistive loads vs inductive loads derate AC switches. I have some controllers that will handle 15amp resistive but only 3 inductive.

I added a 20 amp ON/OFF light switch to a 120VAC belt sander that I had, and used it to switch the motor on and off.
One day it quit working, and I thought that since the switch was relatively new, then the motor must be bad.
I found another motor, connected it, and nothing happened.
I took the switch apart, and the contacts were fried.

Inductive loads can be hard on switches.
A good NEMA-rated contactor, such as a 30 amp unit, will last longer.

Inductors and capacitors both store energy, and they will spike the system if that energy is suddenly interrupted.
Medium voltage conductors also can store energy, and they can electrocute you even if de-engergized, if you don't ground them first.

The derating on AC disconnect switches, when used in DC circuits, is pretty substantial as I recall, but I forget the exact percentage.

.

 

[Richard Hed]

Maybe I need to relearn my knowledge or understanding of electricity !!!!!????

I thimpfks these guys are just misusing the word 'rectifiy'. We first language English speakers understood that the original person meant "inverter". When I was a kid (yesterday), we had radios in cars that had ancient technology for the radio for the amplification of the weak radio waves. That dark ages technology was called the "tube", or in Britain and other places, the 'valve'. Anyway, to make the radio work well, it was necessary to have the voltage changed from the car's 6 volt (yes, we remember those 6 volt cars--always more trouble than the 12 volters) to something else. This was done by a device called the 'vibrator', which in the 70's was turned into another hand-held type of device for home use. The vibrator was simply a magnetic switch that allowed the battery electricity to flow in the normal direction for a moment, but in doing so, it would trigger a magnet to switch the direction of the electricity. This would happen about 60 X per second..

That would work in the end just like a modern day inverter making AC from DC. I wonder what the efficiency of that would have been? I suspect modern inverters would be better today for the power requirements as the vibrator was used for low voltage, low power and would last a really long time. I doubt that such a device would last long with the modern power requirements. I know I would like to have an off grid system to run my shop. Me thimpfks most here understand how a transformer works so no need to expound on that. (If anyone does NOT understand, there are about 25-100 people here who would humbly be happy to expound including myself but not so humbly).

GT: We must be careful in the usage of words, Modern words give us about 2,000,000 words in the English language but made up mostly from ancient Latin and Greek. Wsith these 2M words we can slice and dice ideas and meanings to tiny fractions of larger ideas. (BTW, we have a lot of 'dirty' minded people who insist on using Latin for certain body parts and functions -- did you know that in the Soviet, school children cannot look up the city name "Toppenish"? because it has a '*****' in the middle! Shocking, disgusting! We have words in English, so use the ENGLISH word not latin to cover up your dirty mind. I could rant a LOT longer on this subject). Anyway, to use the term "varying" is dangerous as it seems to ME that varying means goes from high to low and back. The correct idea is that electricity actually reverses in direction which makes 'alternating' current (AC). Of course, most of us understand what the usage of the term "varying" means so no prob. Correctly, however, it is wrong.

 

[The Ignoble Troll]

Cheap inverters basically do the same, out putting a square ac wave. They just use solid state stuff vs tubes and a relay

More expensive units produce sine waves

More more expensive units produce a clean sine wave.

This is especially important when picking a UPS to clean up the power for a generator to power electronics or sound system stuff.

 

[Richard Hed]

Or how resistive loads vs inductive loads derate AC switches. I have some controllers that will handle 15amp resistive but only 3 inductive.

When I was a kid (last week) I knew nothing about how tubes (valves), transformers or electricity in general workt. Had I known, I could have built my own radios (besides the crystal radios that I did indeed build). I bought a kit that you could build 18 projects with, it was fun, the only problem was that it was soldered together and each time had to be UN-soldered to build another project. Today, of course we have many techniques available, my favorite of which is the bread-board,

It is my not humble AT-ALL opinion that our ****** schools (excuse me if you insist on Latin 'faeces' or fascist) need less books and more HANDS-ON learning for most students. Subjects such as electronics, welding, sewing, cooking, machining, even sewage treatment but particularly, at least in the Great Northwest, Salmon Recovery techniques.

(Oh GODZ, I'm off on a rant ab out Salmon Recovery, sorry guys and gals, can't help myself--where's my shrink?) Did you know that the most Salmon caught and canned (tinned in some countries) was 1886? Before the Soviet was actually a state! Yes, almost 150 years ago, off the Columbia River between Oregon and the Soviet! 600,000+ crates of Salmon were canned, with thousands of Salmon left in the river after being caught to rot because the factory capacity could not handle them. The Salmon was sold in Europe. Since then, Salmon have been in decline. When the Grand Coulee Dam was put in in the 1930's, they failed to put in a fish ladder and it wiped out a race of huge Salmon called 'June hogs' which traveled as far as BC (British Columbia, Canada). In doing so, it destroyed many Native American's livelihood of catching these huge monsters. (With nothing to do, many of the residents of the 'rez' turned to drinking.) Today, the claim is that a fish ladder is not possible to build. BULLSH*T!

To connect the dots, school children, while being taught useful things (rather than that Columbus sailed the ocien blue in 1942, Washington cut down a cherry tree, Ulysses was born in a log cabin and other useless krap) should be going out to plant trees on the riversides (necessary shade for Salmon eggs), remove log-jams in the rivers which should be done by the companies responsible for the jams (such as Weyerhauser, Georgia-Pacific, and others). The rivers silt up because too many trees are harvested which destroy the ability of the forest to keep the soil in one place. Silt smothers the eggs. In fact, school children should be building small Salmaon hatcheries on small streams everywhere in the Soviet.

Frankly, the seeming only people taking responsibility for the Salmon problem is a few Fisheries people but mostly the various tribes in Idaho, Montana, the Soviet, Oregon, California and BC! The tribes are, however, so small that the sik political people simply ignore them. for the sake of the true GODZ, let these azzholes wake up! The Salmon are worth HUNDREDs of BILLIONS of $$ (I say that because the azzholes don't seem to understand anything other than $$!) It is the best fish on the face of the planet! (IMNSHO).,

Oh godz, is this off topic?

 

[Lloyd-ss]

@Richard Hed
Yes, off topic, weaving all over the road and barely staying out of the ditches. I doubt GT minds.

But speaking of learning and kids books, I was in the 7th grade and checked a book out of the library on "Experiments for kids," or something like that. One of them involved winding a little step-up transformer, a few short pieces of pipe, a battery, and some sheet metal to make a key. The wires from the output went to the 2 pipes. A person holding the 2 pipes would have their arms jump whenever the key was tapped. Great FUN! I brought it to school, added an extra battery, and found as many suckers as I could to hold the pipes. I was not one of the cool kids, so I was enjoying the attention. Finally I got to one of the real tough guys. He hesitated a bunch and finally put his hands behind his back and said, "ok, ok, you proved me chicken." Best day ever in the 7th grade, LOL.

 

[Lloyd-ss]

It was kinda like a heart ICD device with no safety instructions.

 

[Richard Hed]

@Richard Hed
Yes, off topic, weaving all over the road and barely staying out of the ditches. I doubt GT minds.

But speaking of learning and kids books, I was in the 7th grade and checked a book out of the library on "Experiments for kids," or something like that. One of them involved winding a little step-up transformer, a few short pieces of pipe, a battery, and some sheet metal to make a key. The wires from the output went to the 2 pipes. A person holding the 2 pipes would have their arms jump whenever the key was tapped. Great FUN! I brought it to school, added an extra battery, and found as many suckers as I could to hold the pipes. I was not one of the cool kids, so I was enjoying the attention. Finally I got to one of the real tough guys. He hesitated a bunch and finally put his hands behind his back and said, "ok, ok, you proved me chicken." Best day ever in the 7th grade, LOL.

I thimpfks that the subject of real education is so IMPORTANT, I will risk the ire of being off topic. Likewise the recovery of an important food species. Notice the two subjects are like a marriage, two become one which makes three! LOL

As far as being 'cool', cool rhymes with 'fool' and fool rhymes with 'school'. What do you thimpfk that could mean? Anyway a cool fool in school only lasts a couple years. It's after that when we find out that the truly cool fool was the one who borrowed that book about how to make things for kids. Kids grow up and it in doing so, the 'cool' kids get pregnant and ruin their lives and oftern become nothing at all.

 

[Richard Hed]

It was kinda like a heart ICD device with no safety instructions.

At a christmas party, my nephew put a shocking toy in my hand. not know what it was , I pressed the button. It shocked me, but when I get something like that done, I generally react without thimpfking--it was very heavy and I threw it across the room. lucky to not hit anyone as the room was packt with peanut eating popcorn popping people. It's never smart to attack me, as i immediately react that way./

 

[GreenTwin]

Oh godz, is this off topic?

Its all related in my opinion.

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[GreenTwin]

At a christmas party, my nephew put a shocking toy in my hand. not know what it was , I pressed the button. It shocked me, but when I get something like that done, I generally react without thimpfking--it was very heavy and I threw it across the room. lucky to not hit anyone as the room was packt with peanut eating popcorn popping people. It's never smart to attack me, as i immediately react that way./

I ordered one of those shocking books from the back of a comic book, and used it to shock many fellow students, and even a teacher or two.
I was not a popular person in grammar school.......I have no idea why....... (pun intended).

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