Newcomer says Hi.

[famousperson]

Greetings. Other than making some small, simple parts on a milling machine 30 years ago, I am a complete newcomer to the world of metal working. I have many questions but will try to ask them over time and keep them short and to the point. I’ll start by asking about equipment. To make a steam engine from castings, do I need a lathe or a milling machine or both?

Are there any mini-mills worth buying, or are they all cheap junk, as is my impression from dipping into some of the discussions on this forum? Does anyone have an opinion about Micro Mark’s line of equipment? Can I get away with paying that little?

As an almost complete noobie, I appreciate any insights I can get here.

For those that are curious, I am definitely not famous.

Peter Simon

 

[nautilus29]

Welcome to the forum Peter!

A lot of people on this site have had good luck with some of the Chinese cheaper brands. I myself have a harbor freight milling machine. I don't use it very often, but I am surprised by how well it works considering it's small size.

I have made some improvements to it, and I have noticed a lot of people here make adjustments or improvements to the cheaper machines to get them to preform better. I think part of it comes down to if you feel comfortable possibly having to do some work to get the machine to preform like you want. Getting a used model can be a good idea too if your area has a market for it, but again if you don't know how to check if the machine is in good shape or not you could get a real lemon.

I'm sure others can give you better information on different brands and what they did or didn't have to do to their machine to get it to run the way they wanted. There are a couple of great threads that show pictures from when they unboxed their lathe or mill to any improvements they made along the way, so you may want to look at some of those to get a better idea of what to expect.

 

[RM-MN]

The smaller machines lack the mass and strength of the big ones. That means you have to learn to work within their work envelope and you need to learn to make the necessary adjustments to get accuracy from them. You also need the tools to be sharper as you don't have the rigidity of the big machine to help push the tool into the metal and keep it there. Learning to sharpen the lathe tools, first with the coarse wheel of the grinder, then the fine wheel, and finally with the hand stone will be more important.

 

[rlukens]

Welcome Peter,
I don't know your budget or space. only that you're a noobie. The following are MY recommendations.
Look at my Smithy 3 in 1 machine. I find it more than adequate. Does everything that separate, larger, machines can do only on a smaller scale (we ARE building models here). I bought mine used.
Be prepared to spend nearly as much on support tooling. But don't run out and buy everything you "think" you need. Beyond the basics, buy accessories as you need them, the internet delivers fast. You'll need a decent 3" vice. Get a quick change tool post asap. Buy an inexpensive full set of fractional/number/letter drills, cutters, taps-dies, measuring tools, hand tools, etc. A tool box will soon fill up and you also need a decent bench. A small compressor is handy and for me, lighting is a must. I could go on and on, but don't over do it.
Learn to operate your machine(s). Watch videos. Copy some charts on cutting feeds and speeds. Start with aluminum or mild steel. Find a source for metals... local shops?
I assume you can read basic prints. A free downloadable CAD (Draftsight?) program would be a great tool if you decide to design your own work.
You'll find lots of help here on the forum... just ask.
AND ABOVE ALL, BE SAFE. AND ABOVE ALL, BE SAFE
Russ

 

[RM-MN]

Welcome Peter,
I don't know your budget or space. only that you're a noobie. The following are MY recommendations.
Look at my Smithy 3 in 1 machine. I find it more than adequate. Does everything that separate, larger, machines can do only on a smaller scale (we ARE building models here). I bought mine used.
Be prepared to spend nearly as much on support tooling. But don't run out and buy everything you "think" you need. Beyond the basics, buy accessories as you need them, the internet delivers fast. You'll need a decent 3" vice. Get a quick change tool post asap. Buy an inexpensive full set of fractional/number/letter drills, cutters, taps-dies, measuring tools, hand tools, etc. A tool box will soon fill up and you also need a decent bench. A small compressor is handy and for me, lighting is a must. I could go on and on, but don't over do it.
Learn to operate your machine(s). Watch videos. Copy some charts on cutting feeds and speeds. Start with aluminum or mild steel. Find a source for metals... local shops?
I assume you can read basic prints. A free downloadable CAD (Draftsight?) program would be a great tool if you decide to design your own work.
You'll find lots of help here on the forum... just ask.
AND ABOVE ALL, BE SAFE. AND ABOVE ALL, BE SAFE
Russ

I think I might be in the wrong forum as I made a part for my 40HP tractor on my mini lathe.

Actually I joined because the same ideas and techniques that a model engine builder uses scale up to bigger machines too. They are also safer to learn on and you can learn with smaller amounts of basic material.

 

[dalem9]

Nice work , Welcome

 

[Wizard69]

Welcome

Greetings. Other than making some small, simple parts on a milling machine 30 years ago, I am a complete newcomer to the world of metal working.

That is no problem! There are various levels of experience here. As far as learning basic machining there hasn't been a better time in history to teach yourself. Between the net and youtube there is an endless collection of materials to learn the basics. Just stick with the professional machinist for learning to avoid bad habits. For lathe operation Kieth Fenner an ABom on youtube are excellent.

I have many questions but will try to ask them over time and keep them short and to the point. I’ll start by asking about equipment. To make a steam engine from castings, do I need a lathe or a milling machine or both?

Size is everything! The bigger the engine the bigger the tools required.

As for what you need a lathe is an absolute requirement. A milling machine can be a nice to have or a mandatory requirement. In either case there is a rather huge tooling up expense.

Are there any mini-mills worth buying, or are they all cheap junk, as is my impression from dipping into some of the discussions on this forum?

If you see the Chinese machines as kits for you to finish you will likely be better off. You also need to understand that it is impossible for a #300 pound mill to perform like a Bridgeport. If you understand these things the Chinese Mini Mills are actually a bargain.

Does anyone have an opinion about Micro Mark’s line of equipment? Can I get away with paying that little?

The first question should be is this class mill the right choice for what i want to do. It is very easy too buy too small. On the other hand bigger than required just takes up too much room.

To put it another way guys have built engines on Watch maker class machines or machinery suitable for a job shop. It comes down to what you can afford ( cash or physical space) and where your interests lay.

By the way Cabin Fever is coming soon, it is a great place to talk to builders of all sorts of things. If near by it would be worth dropping in.

As an almost complete noobie, I appreciate any insights I can get here.



For those that are curious, I am definitely not famous.



Peter Simon

You will be famous after this post!

As for advice, personally i tend to advise people to buy larger than what they think the need. I got myself a 9x20 lathe and sometimes regret not getting bigger! No mill yet. By the way the regret comes not from model making but rather all the other uses for a lathe. The other problem with a 9x20 is the screwed on chuck which is a terrible choice considering the options we now have.

As for Micro Mark they have nice hardware that are improved over the bottom end machines. As such i believe they are a good choice for people focused on smaller stuff.

 

[famousperson]

I appreciate everybody’s reply. It’s obvious that there’s more to the hobby than I thought. I have decided to get a Micro Mark lathe for starters. In the meantime I have a lot of reading to do. Do people have a favorite book for beginners? If I just knew the name for things, I’d be able to understand what you guys are talking about in this terrific forum.

 

[goldstar31]

Whilst others may comment otherwise, my favorite book is still the Amateurs Lathe by Lawrence Sparey who designed so many models which are still popular today.

On a higher level of 'intellectual exercise', George Thomas's Model Engineer's Workshop Manual take some beating-- and some reading.
One book is missing and that is the writings of Martin Cleeve which appeared mainly in Model Engineer. Sadly, copyright issues almost got me prosecuted! Great stuff for beginners and for those who are perhaps short of money as well as experience.

Whatever others may suggest, take their advice as well

Norm

 

[bobs7-62steamair]

Hi Peter: Welcome to the fantastic world of model engine building. Most China built machines are made by one or two factories there. They customize machines based on what the distributor wants to offer the customer. Not a lot of difference between Micro Marc, LMS, Grizzly, Enco, harbor freight and a host of others offering the machine. It just depends on what you want and are willing to pay for. The amount of Bells & Whistles provided determines the price you will pay. I own 2 Chinese built lathe's, one mini mill and a drill press and cut saw, all perform satisfactory for what we need to do in the model engine world. I would definitely recommend a mini mill and a bench lathe to start with.
None of the Chinese machines are of Myford or South Bend quality and don't command those kind of prices either. South Bend lathes are now made in Tiawan and sold by Grizzly with limited availability. They have been out of stock in their local warehouse store for about a year now.
If I were in the market for a lathe I would definitely go for one with a power cross feed, some as small as 8"swing offer this feature and in my opinion are well worth it.
I Recently purchased a Bolton 10x36" lathe with power cross feed and am quite pleased with it.
There are also lots of good used lathes and mills available in most markets.