Newbie needs advice about a lathe

[terryd]

Terry, On the subject of the tool cutting point set 5 degeers above the centre of rotation of the workpiece:
Suppose a 3 to 4 degree clearance on a tool. It will rub at the contact tangent on the workpiece if 5 degrees high. But only start cutting if 5 degrees or more clearance angle.
Also the rake angle will cage per the 5 degree offset. So a zero angle rake on a tool becomes 5 degrees of rake, a tool selected withe 3 degrees positive rake will become 2 degrees negative rake, a 5 degree negative rake will become 10 degrees working rake, etc.
Sorry. It seems crazy to me.
Can anyone explain? IT's not just a language problem....
K2

Hi K2,

I think that it's just to take care of the 'spring' in the tool and workpiece - and no matter how 'rigid' e think that is there is always some slight movement in response to the forces involved, so if the tool is forced downwards it presents itself to the work as if it was on centre, at least that's all I can think of. Having said that as you say trial and error is important but so is a starting point especially for a tyro like John.

Best regards

TerryD

 

[william_b_noble]

It appears that in this multi-cultural forum we have started to bicker about "language" and pronunciation.
Surely, we should simply stick to the "Engineering and Machining issues"? - I am an old git who regularly cringes at some of the language used but recognise that mostly the message is truly transmitted - by all who use "English" as the common forum language. Even by those who do not have the fortune to have been raised and educated in "English, as she is spoke" - from 60 years ago - "like what I wus"...
Personally, I enjoy the language (and associated humour) - old and new - and have now fallen into the trap of discussing a distraction that I would prefer kept off this forum...
I'll just creep back into my little box and hide in my world of my prejudice...
K2

Wow, "English as she is spoke" an amazing book for those with a certain kind of warped sense of humor

 

[Richard Hed]

Hi Richard,
no we don't use the term boondocks, we are though aquainted with it from US culture i.e films and songs especially. You mention the intermixing of languages, English itself is a mongrel language not only was it influenced by Celtic langages but by Latin, (Roman occupation and ecclesiastical use), Anglo Saxon (High German), Scandinavian (Danish, Norwegian and Swedish), Norman French and actual French (our so called imperial system of measures are actualy based of French or other European terms and only fully defined in theh middle of the 19th C. after the establishment of the more logical Metric system) as well as through our vast Empire accross the world.
Words you mention such as LASER (acronym for Light Amplified Stimulated - something - Radiation), snafu likewise (I'm too polite to explain that acronym), hypo is a Greek word (under) borrowed by the Romans hence hypocaust (underfloor heating) and Hypochlorite (fixing photographs etc) I think because it is an anion (negatively charged oxygen atom = minus or 'below') also hence hypochondria (below par in health terms) hypothermia (below normal temperature) etc so 'hypo' still has only one meaning it is the cocatenated terms which have different meanings. Byte is of course an abbreviation of binary digit and most other terms in computing are either derivations of normal words, abbreviations or acromyms and are used for specialised discussion (aka jargon) but some spill over into popular usage but all of these have developed in response to the needs of new technology,
I would still argue that a 'novice' of the Romans is still a 'novice' today so there is no need to 'make up' a new description when there is a perfectly good, quite well known, more elegant, less ugly existing word which has stood the test of time - I find that ridiculous just as changing the name of a, say, horse (Roman - Hippo, hippopotamus = River Horse, strange imagination those Romans) to say, piglettio just because you can.
Glad you've enjoyed the discussion I also try not to take or give acrimony or insult anyone. You have to love language, it separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom - no let's not start another discussion that's just an observation.

TerryD

Ah. Well, doesn't separate us from the animals as much as you might thimpfk. Animals, indeed, DO have language, we as humans just don't usually uinderstand them. They even have WRITTEN language. Some of the language they have is transmitted not by visible symbols but by odor symbols, such as dog and wolf peeing on fyrehydrants and territory marking. It is legitmate writing. Bears mark their territory by scratching trees--written language which conveys meaning to other bears or animals who understand.

Also an interesting fact you most likely will be interested in and marvel at like I myself do: most mamals (if not all) have a certain center in the brain that has a vocabulary size of about 500 words. Humans use this area for such things as exclaimations, and naughty words, and also important words such ad "mom", "dad", RUN, HELP. If learning a foreign language, the easiest words to learn are the naughty ones--have you ever noticed? These naughty words are stored in this special area. Regular language in human beans is stored in a different place that has evolved in human brains. Have no idea if other mamals have a primitive area. Sometimes a person might have an accident and knock out regular language area but not the primitive one. TV shows about that.

 

[Richard Hed]

Hi K2,

I think that it's just to take care of the 'spring' in the tool and workpiece - and no matter how 'rigid' e think that is there is always some slight movement in response to the forces involved, so if the tool is forced downwards it presents itself to the work as if it was on centre, at least that's all I can think of. Having said that as you say trial and error is important but so is a starting point especially for a tyro like John.

Best regards

TerryD

I've known about these settings for the rocker style cutting tool for a while. I thimpfks that it may be that that particular angle has a relation to that rocker in which the rocker (when I actually used one on an SB I had) will snap out of place if held right at the center line. It happened to me a lot. If placed up a bit, it snaps out less often. I thimpfks it has to do with the angle of attack on the rocker arm.

 

[Richard Hed]

Hi Richard,
no we don't use the term boondocks, we are though aquainted with it from US culture i.e films and songs especially. You mention the intermixing of languages, English itself is a mongrel language not only was it influenced by Celtic langages but by Latin, (Roman occupation and ecclesiastical use), Anglo Saxon (High German), Scandinavian (Danish, Norwegian and Swedish), Norman French and actual French (our so called imperial system of measures are actualy based of French or other European terms and only fully defined in theh middle of the 19th C. after the establishment of the more logical Metric system) as well as through our vast Empire accross the world.
Words you mention such as LASER (acronym for Light Amplified Stimulated - something - Radiation), snafu likewise (I'm too polite to explain that acronym), hypo is a Greek word (under) borrowed by the Romans hence hypocaust (underfloor heating) and Hypochlorite (fixing photographs etc) I think because it is an anion (negatively charged oxygen atom = minus or 'below') also hence hypochondria (below par in health terms) hypothermia (below normal temperature) etc so 'hypo' still has only one meaning it is the cocatenated terms which have different meanings. Byte is of course an abbreviation of binary digit and most other terms in computing are either derivations of normal words, abbreviations or acromyms and are used for specialised discussion (aka jargon) but some spill over into popular usage but all of these have developed in response to the needs of new technology,
I would still argue that a 'novice' of the Romans is still a 'novice' today so there is no need to 'make up' a new description when there is a perfectly good, quite well known, more elegant, less ugly existing word which has stood the test of time - I find that ridiculous just as changing the name of a, say, horse (Roman - Hippo, hippopotamus = River Horse, strange imagination those Romans) to say, piglettio just because you can.
Glad you've enjoyed the discussion I also try not to take or give acrimony or insult anyone. You have to love language, it separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom - no let's not start another discussion that's just an observation.

TerryD

The Philippino meaning of boondocks is "mountain". In the Philippines it does not have the reputation it has in the US. In the US it is equal to calling someone from the Ozarks, that is, inbred and ignorant. We also use "the boonies" which is derived from boondox but it simply means out from a far distance in the countryside, maybe difficult to find.

 

[Jules]

Can people please stick to the topic of the thread and not go off on a tangent writing pages and pages about the English language.
It is hard to pick out replies about the actual subject.
Start a new topic if you want to discuss other subjects.
Rant over.

 

[HMEL]

During Viet Nam era, a fresh recruit with no experience in the feild was called a newby for New Boy,. which sometimes was shortened to noob, also.

I know its off topic but had to respond. I had forgotten about those days and you are very correct. It may well be when and where it was first initiated.

 

[Bentwings]

Carbide insert tools don’t necessarily have razor sharp edges in fact they are rather dull. We used to hone them sharp however carbide is very brittle so the edges micro chip or crack then you have a messed up tool . This is why many use HSS . Told as you can dress the edges ver sharp and gently radius the cutting to . Carbide generally requires some depth of cut snd lots of speed . Not to good for light cuts. Old guys learned to add chip breaker grooves to HSS tools by carefully using something like dremel tool and cut off wheels or air tools you have to have an understanding of how the chip is forming to make these carefully done you can get away from bird nest chips . Type of material makes a difference too leaded steel generally is pretty forgiving but probably not the best for all projects especially if welding is required . I’ve used various spacers to make chip breakers too it’s a tricky way to make chip breakers but it does work tool height or position is important carving 4130 or 4140 with light cuts is tough stainless can be real tough too our little 10x 22 lathe works pretty hard on heavier cuts. Everything that slides needs to be set up perfectly gears make noise loose or tight . A bad belt in the drive can cause problems we had a vee belt with broken strands that drove us crazy a very tight belt drive can cause noise too . Our 10 x22 has a very tight belt using the stock belt . It ultimately caused bearing failure. The spindle had very tight press fit bearings The new spindle required buffing the bearing surfaces to fit properly

 

[clockworkcheval]

For years I have been a staunch supporter of HSS tools, and I still am. But with the arrival of affordable good quality fine diamond grinding wheels it has become possible to grind carbide insert tools with shiny honed sharp cutting edges. So the carbide inserts can be used for delicate turning operations.

 

[terryd]

I too am an officionado of HSS tooling which is relatively cheap, use inexpensive grinding techniques to shape the tools to whatever shape I need and keeps a fine edge under heavy use generally. once shaped a quick hone with a slipstone and you have a perfect edge once again.

I succumbed to the sirens that are indexible carbide tools once and used them for a while but now they are little more than artractive ornaments for my lathe (as long as I keep then cobweb free!).

Happy new year to all on here

 

[Bentwings]

When inserts came readily available I too though they were gear we had Siam’s wheels so puttin polished sharpness on them was easy however we quickly found they carbide is very brittle and te sharpness broke down easily the worked great on softer materials but any moly steel quickly broke hem down better inserts became available so we switched to hem for heavy turning then maybe a sharp tool for final finishing ceramics became available but they were just too expensive for everyday work plus’s if yo dropped the tool you might as well toss th ceramic . I’m not supposed to even be in the shop any more as I don’t see well . I some times get a few minutes on the late or mill but I plan each move carefully and keep my ever present mag glass handy . I sold my tig welder as I just could not do the precision stuff I liked to do. I YHINK I’m goingvto sleep in today . I got a new electric blanket that is really cozy . It’s a lot cheaper to use e blanket than turn up the heat

 

[ajoeiam]

When inserts came readily available I too though they were gear we had Siam’s wheels so puttin polished sharpness on them was easy however we quickly found they carbide is very brittle and te sharpness broke down easily the worked great on softer materials but any moly steel quickly broke hem down better inserts became available so we switched to hem for heavy turning then maybe a sharp tool for final finishing ceramics became available but they were just too expensive for everyday work plus’s if yo dropped the tool you might as well toss th ceramic . I’m not supposed to even be in the shop any more as I don’t see well . I some times get a few minutes on the late or mill but I plan each move carefully and keep my ever present mag glass handy . I sold my tig welder as I just could not do the precision stuff I liked to do. I YHINK I’m goingvto sleep in today . I got a new electric blanket that is really cozy . It’s a lot cheaper to use e blanket than turn up the heat

I'd suggest a good duvet (or two if necessary) with a cozy flannel cover rather than an electric blanket!!!

 

[Shopgeezer]

No way. There are few things in life better than slipping into a warm bed after the electric blanket has been on for half an hour. Far better than cold shock from the sheets and shivering for half an hour. If I win one of those seats on Starship for an around the moon trip my electric blanket is coming with me.

 

[ajoeiam]

No way. There are few things in life better than slipping into a warm bed after the electric blanket has been on for half an hour. Far better than cold shock from the sheets and shivering for half an hour. If I win one of those seats on Starship for an around the moon trip my electric blanket is coming with me.

It is quite clear that you have never used a good duvet.

This morning our bedroom temperature was 3 C (circa 40 F) at my wakeup. If you suffer from very cold feet at a hot water bottle under the covers when you crawl in. You might want to try a good duvet - - - - its far more comfy than your electric blankie - - - guaranteed!

 

[abby]

I love you guys , the penultimate post before a 3 month break was about going off topic because several posts were discussing the correct use of the English language,
This thread has restarted on it's intended subject and after 3 posts the subject has changed to keeping warm in bed.
I am not complaining by any means , for goodness sake there's 8 pages of replies about tooling so I reckon every member and his dog has put in their four penorth and "oldguy" was probably sorted after the first page.
Anyway on the subject of keeping warm how much gas are you managing to save , my gas/leccy bill for last month is about 25% of my pension and I am hardly using the central heating. My foundry furnace is propane fired and that has increased in price by aroung 300% so no castings at present.
Anyone fancy designing a wood fired boiler that can be easily hooked into an existing central heating system ?
Dan.

 

[RM-MN]

I love you guys , the penultimate post before a 3 month break was about going off topic because several posts were discussing the correct use of the English language,
This thread has restarted on it's intended subject and after 3 posts the subject has changed to keeping warm in bed.
I am not complaining by any means , for goodness sake there's 8 pages of replies about tooling so I reckon every member and his dog has put in their four penorth and "oldguy" was probably sorted after the first page.
Anyway on the subject of keeping warm how much gas are you managing to save , my gas/leccy bill for last month is about 25% of my pension and I am hardly using the central heating. My foundry furnace is propane fired and that has increased in price by aroung 300% so no castings at present.
Anyone fancy designing a wood fired boiler that can be easily hooked into an existing central heating system ?
Dan.

I heated my home for years with wood. One piece of advice for you. Keep your existing heat.

 

[Richard Hed]

I love you guys , the penultimate post before a 3 month break was about going off topic because several posts were discussing the correct use of the English language,
This thread has restarted on it's intended subject and after 3 posts the subject has changed to keeping warm in bed.
I am not complaining by any means , for goodness sake there's 8 pages of replies about tooling so I reckon every member and his dog has put in their four penorth and "oldguy" was probably sorted after the first page.
Anyway on the subject of keeping warm how much gas are you managing to save , my gas/leccy bill for last month is about 25% of my pension and I am hardly using the central heating. My foundry furnace is propane fired and that has increased in price by aroung 300% so no castings at present.
Anyone fancy designing a wood fired boiler that can be easily hooked into an existing central heating system ?
Dan.

THAT, my best Friend (How much money you got?), is one of the reasons I got into steam: that is, steam can Heat one's house, do your cooking, run your electric, heat your hot water for tea and showers and power your home gattling gun, pucket gun or even a canon if you have a big enough heat source. However, to do all this properly costs a lot.

RM-MN: my brother in law in Tacoma uses an enclosed stove to heat his house, a commercial stove, but he has added into it a copper pipe that goes to heat his water--he says it saves him a WHOLE lot of $$. The stoves burn out after 15-20 years tho'.

PS, I din't even add my 1 bits about which blanket I prefer. However, I could write a book on this subject. I use a sheep skin--so hot under it that I have tohave extra water at my bedside to keep hydrated. Have to take it off once I get warmed up. I just leave it on my feet as they are always cold without it.

 

[HMEL]

I love you guys , the penultimate post before a 3 month break was about going off topic because several posts were discussing the correct use of the English language,
This thread has restarted on it's intended subject and after 3 posts the subject has changed to keeping warm in bed.
I am not complaining by any means , for goodness sake there's 8 pages of replies about tooling so I reckon every member and his dog has put in their four penorth and "oldguy" was probably sorted after the first page.
Anyway on the subject of keeping warm how much gas are you managing to save , my gas/leccy bill for last month is about 25% of my pension and I am hardly using the central heating. My foundry furnace is propane fired and that has increased in price by aroung 300% so no castings at present.
Anyone fancy designing a wood fired boiler that can be easily hooked into an existing central heating system ?
Dan.

Yes, there are at least two I know of in the surrounding area. However, insurance companies frown on such installations and the approach is to build an outdoor unit and transport the heat into the house via glycol heating or hot air ducts. I have a cast iron wood burner which is acceptable alternative except I can not install it because of the chimney in this house has to be redone. Outdoor installation requires space but provides best protection against things such as a chimney fire. They can be very nasty and a very real danger. The wood stove was built by a reputable firm and carries a serial number which the insurance company approved. The chimney they did not.

 

[RM-MN]

RM-MN: my brother in law in Tacoma uses an enclosed stove to heat his house, a commercial stove, but he has added into it a copper pipe that goes to heat his water--he says it saves him a WHOLE lot of $$. The stoves burn out after 15-20 years tho'.

Tacoma is a whole different place to heat your house than northern Minnesota. Not only do the stoves (not cheap either) burn out after 15 to 20 years, so does the body. What I could do with a chainsaw at 30 I can no longer do at 70 and even at 50 my body was telling me to quit heating with wood.

 

[MRA]

I love you guys , the penultimate post before a 3 month break was about going off topic because several posts were discussing the correct use of the English language,
This thread has restarted on it's intended subject and after 3 posts the subject has changed to keeping warm in bed.
I am not complaining by any means , for goodness sake there's 8 pages of replies about tooling so I reckon every member and his dog has put in their four penorth and "oldguy" was probably sorted after the first page.
Anyway on the subject of keeping warm how much gas are you managing to save , my gas/leccy bill for last month is about 25% of my pension and I am hardly using the central heating. My foundry furnace is propane fired and that has increased in price by aroung 300% so no castings at present.
Anyone fancy designing a wood fired boiler that can be easily hooked into an existing central heating system ?
Dan.

Hey Dan - I don't think a waste motor oil furnace would suit you (the way I do it) as your stuff turns out consistent and your photos always make your process look really controlled!
I always look at all the heat leaving the furnace and wonder how I could save some of it. I don't cast often enough for this to be a real possibility. I do heat one room with a wood burner, running on scrap pallets and doing much of the chopping up with a cheapo electric chainsaw. One has to be careful (of course) but it works well enough and is more or less free.