Inline 6 aircraft engine or inline 4 model aircraft engine plans required

[Alex3886]

Hi, my name is Alex, and I am new to this great site.
I am looking to find some free plans for an inline 6 aircraft engine (Mercedes D.III inline 6 engine), or a scaled down version of an engine that type, like an inline 4, 4 stroke model aircraft engine like for example the O.S. IL-300 Dia-Star, Cirrus 4-Cylinder Inline Aero Engine,
I have already modeled a Clerget 9 B 130hp rotary aircraft engine, and now I am trying to finish modeling the full Sopwith Camel F.1 in Solidworks. After I have finished this project I want to model an Albatros D.III fighter, but for that plane I need some plans for the engine, so please could you guys help me. I am really unable to find plans for this type of engine.

Some reference photos:

Cirrus 4-Cylinder Inline Aero Engine, 1/6-scale model built by Merritt Zimmerman

IL-300 Dia-Star

Mercedes D.III aircraft engine

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Welcome to the forum Alex.

I can't help you with your questions...but I sure am interested in the projects. When you find the plans I hope you start a build thread here and show us.

 

[Alex3886]

Thank you!
I will be happy to show my projects here

 

[Alex3886]

Here are some photos of my current work so far.
I hope you like them.

 

[Kermit]

Have you seen this site?

http://www.arizonamodels.com/index.php/cPath/27

http://www.arizonamodels.com/index.php/manufacturers_id/16

Kermit

 

[Alex3886]

Yes, I have seen it.
From there I got some interesting drawings for the Albatros and Sopwith Camel.
Check this out: http://www.finemodelworks.com/arizona-models/reference/

 

[Lakc]

As I recall there were two different scale versions of the Cirrus, at least one I know made it as plans into the pages of Strictly IC magazine.

While inline 6 cylinders are probably out there, it becomes rather difficult to reproduce in model scale form. Both the physical length of the crankshaft and the length of the line boring involved probably contribute to their rarity.

 

[Alex3886]

You are right,
There are two scale versions of the Cirrus 4-Cylinder Inline Aero Engine, one is 1/4 scale and the other is 1/6 scale.
You can see them here on this site, along with some other great little engines:
http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/KnappCol.htm

 

[GWRdriver]

I have some information for you, but first, do you really think it's reasonable to expect that somewhere out there are sets of "free" plans for a highly complex model engine which someone with great intelligence, experience, skill, and perseverance would have taken years of their life to design, build, test, prove, and then draw up so that someone else could build it? Is that a reasonable expectation?

My long time mentor, J. Wilson, of Nashville TN (now deceased) designed from scratch and built a 1/10th scale model of the Mercedes D.lll in-line six engine to exact scale. His procedure was to scale the drawings based upon known dimensions from a single side and end view drawing of the engine. He would then rough-sketch the part, make the part in metal, then pencil sketch the part to scale and dimension for eventual redrawing. The process would be repeated for any part that didn't work out just right or which was less than perfect. This project spanned almost 30 years and was nearing final completion and testing when he died at age 89. His last remaining challenge was to complete the magnetos (also to scale) and he was sure that rare earth magnets would do the job. As Lakc has mentioned above the machining challenges of such a model such are enormous. One of the least of these, for example, was the camshaft oil passage which required drilling a concentric hole 1/16" in diam and around 7" deep. The engine components and all drawings still exist but unfortunately upon his death his widow locked everything up and will not allow further access to his workshop or files. This is too bad because the work should be seen, but nobody is likely to build another one anyway. There are photos and video of the project held by friends and if I can get access to any of the photos I'll post them. It was an amazing project.

 

[Alex3886]

That is proof of the man's great dedication to do a task to the end.
Thank you for sharing that great bit of history with us.
It would have been great to have seen his work indeed, but some thing just don't go as you expect them to go.
That is the way of life, I guess.
In my opinion life would be much better with more dedicated people like J. Wilson, but every one has a different personality and way of life.

“"Scientists investigate that which already is;
Engineers create that which has never been.''”
(Albert Einstein 1879-1955)

 

[Proflooney]

Nice drawings I have factory drawings for the Alb DII an many other WWI aircraft and would be nice to have done a mercedes. right now I am trying to find gnome rotory drawings. I just started to draw up a 3rd scale bentley BR2 in solidworks as I have factory type drawings for a sopwith snipe which was primary plane for the bentley.

I would also like to find a nice V12 aircraft planset to make one and the matching plane for it to fly.

Joe

 

[ZAPJACK]

Take a look there, for old fashion engines kits
www.classic-motors.at

 

[crankshafter]

Nice drawings I have factory drawings for the Alb DII an many other WWI aircraft and would be nice to have done a mercedes. right now I am trying to find gnome rotory drawings. I just started to draw up a 3rd scale bentley BR2 in solidworks as I have factory type drawings for a sopwith snipe which was primary plane for the bentley.

I would also like to find a nice V12 aircraft planset to make one and the matching plane for it to fly.

Joe

Proflooney: Open the link and you will find your V12
http://engineman.de/plan_12zyl_eng.html
CS

 

[Bill Gruby]

WOW --- That V-12 is a beast. Anything that can swing a 24/10 like that is awesome.

"Bill Gruby"

 

[Alex3886]

Hi there Proflooney.

About the Mercedes engines I would like to recommend, browsing on this site: http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/index.html

This site is a great source of information, drawings, and photos about any aircraft, or aircraft engine.
They have an archive on all the flight magazine issues. In there I found some really useful information about the Mercedes 160Hp, 260hp, the 240hp inline 8 cylinder engine, and the 200hp high compression Mercedes engine.
You might find something here on the Gnome Rotary, also.
The issues have drawings, sketches about different engine components, some component dimensions, etc.
They are a good reference point.
And for the exterior of the engine block, etc I can recommend the book from Model airplane news: Best of Wylam Book 1. This book can be found free on the internet, from free pdf sites or others.
About the Gnome engine, you can try looking in this book:Aviation Engines by Page
You can find a free copy here: http://www.archive.org/details/aviationenginesd00pagrich
And another interesting book, with some other informations:The airplane engine by Lionel S. Marks
You can find it also here: http://www.archive.org/details/airplaneengine00markuoft
I hope that these books and magazines can help you.

Cheers!

 

[petertha]

I hope this might help

http://cgi.ebay.com/Daimler-FlugMot...220772695105?pt=Militaria&hash=item336713fc41

Based on the lack of engine description beyond date & hp, it’s kind of hard to determine which specific engine this pertains to, but they used the words ‘Daimler’ & ‘Albatross’

Daimler FlugMotor Bauplan 1914 Albatross Fokker 1wk and Daimler Motor Mercedes 160 & 180 HP 1914-1918 general arrangement and detail drawings - 2 sheets full of dimensions and technical descriptions. Drawn 60+ years ago by W. A. Wylam 1947 with assistance from Msrs G. D. Angle & E. H. Sherbondy.’

Looks like it was re-drawn (from original or factory dwgs?) circa 1951? Hopefully the sellers could elaborate to you. Odd that the title isn’t more descriptive because their other engine (and aircraft) drawings seem of very specific detail, scanned factory drawings & manuals etc. There is a lot of resource material there for serious scale builders. Check out some of the other titles in their ebay storefront under ‘motorhead’ section

http://stores.ebay.com/FLUG-ARCHIV-...19075018&_sid=119633348&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

 

[petertha]

Alex3886, I've been gazing at your beautiful Clerget Solidworks picture. I know enough SW to be dangerous & noted many internal parts referenced in your parts assembly tree. Is the entire engine essentially modeled? Is it something your are going to build in miniature? Can you elaborate on how you embarked on this? (example - imported background image scan of original reference drawing, or this was re-worked from another cad initiatve etc). Sorry for the thread interruption, but I'd love to see a post on your process if you ever feel ambitious!

 

[Alex3886]

Hi there Petertha.

It may sound a bit funny, but the initial reason of making this engine in SW, came from a little bet I had with my brother.
He challenged me to make a complete CAD assembly (complete rotary engine), and I accepted the challenge.
Then for a couple of days I searched the internet for some free plans, for the Clerget 9B 130 hp engine, and I came across some 2D drawings, drawn by Brian Dolby, you can find them here:
http://www.modelenginenews.org/ed.2008.03.html
At first before finding them, I tried to model the engine from different diagrams, and schematics that I could find for that engine. And then with some luck I managed to find those 2D drawings.

Then after I finished the engine I had another idea, now that I have the engine, why don't I make the whole aircraft, since I am a bit of a nostalgic, and I like WW1 and WW2 aircraft, I began to look for references about the Sopwith Camel, from books like Windsock Datafiles etc. And because I like the look of the Sopwith Camel F1, the robust look of it, kind of appealed to me.
The idea of having the CAD model of them both, may serve me in the future, because I think if I have enough time, and motivation, I will make a miniature engine, by use of a CNC machine.
But at the moment I started work on another aircraft, the German Albatros D.III, because I want to make an RC 1/6 scale model of it. The reason why, is that I really like the OS IL-300 Diastar engine, it really looks like the Mercedes D.III engine. And I intend to buy one, and use it on the Albatros RC model.

The Clerget engine that I have modeled in SW, has all the essential components, on the inside, but on the outside I haven't mounted the oil pump, carburetor, and the magneto.
In those 2D drawings you can see some views of them, with a few dimensions, but without luck I haven't found some other drawings of them and I chose to let the engine as is.
If you like to work in SW, you can also model that engine, from those drawings
It's easy!

I hope that this long post, may explain the reason of my CAD models.
In other words, at the moment it's my hobby, but soon it will be my job, because I am a mechanical engineering student, and after I get my degree this year, I would like to work as a CAD Engineer.

 

[GWRdriver]

Alex and others,
I have recently been contacted by the family of my old friend and mentor J. Wilson, builder of the Mercedes Six engine. His widow died earlier this year and sometime this year we will re-open his workshop. I can't predict how long it will be, none of the heirs are in a great hurry, but I expect this will give me an opportunity to photograph and document his model. I am hoping for the best of course, but humidity and lack of air circulation may have taken its toll and I fear the worst.

 

[Lakc]

I can't predict how long it will be, none of the heirs are in a great hurry, but I expect this will give me an opportunity to photograph and document his model.

That is indeed good news. I like to think of our model engines like fine firearms, we can create them, but we never own them for long, as they should be around long after we are gone.