Edgar T Westbury's 15cc Petrol 4 cylinder engine - it could be a long post!

[the engineer]

hi thanks for the question on the build of the sealion the answer is no its not on this site as i only found this site after the finish time but i will dig the camera out and take some photos
you guys would soon get sick of me if i did a build thread as i tend to do a bit then do something else on another project and then come back later and do more again
regard john

 

[Metal Mickey]

Thanks Bob, good job I haven't cut the valve guides angles yet!.

John you are not alone with having more than one job on the go. I suspect the majority of us operate the same way although I do admire the single item approach and wish I was in that grouping. I just find that a problem goes away when on another project and always seems less when I return.

 

[NickG]

I know someone that's building a v twin aero engine from hemmingway and he's had 3 cylinder head castings, 1 with blow holes and the other 2 with bosses in the wrong place for valve guides etc. He ended up making the heads from solid and producing a far better job.

Nice work Mike, looking good.

Nick

 

[Metal Mickey]

Hello Nick, I agree. The sets of castings I have purchased have been disappointing in finish especially. I did toy with making my own head including overhead cam when I got the first set but skill overcame ambition! However I am in the midst of designing my own engine which is a long term project. I was put onto Alibre and Its a great program. I have even used it to design before build recently to make some brackets, and it worked!

Today I managed a session in the workshop and completed (other than cutting a screwdriver slot in the valve faces) the first set of 8 valves. Last night I thought I would change my plan and get something to revolve to spur me on! To that end I ma going to get the valve side completed i.e. the camshaft fitted and working on one engine. To that end I drew up machining methods for the tappets, nuts, valve inserts, and camshaft bearings so that side of the engine works!

So after completing the valves the next items I was going to tackle was the two 1/4" hex nuts per valve. That was until I found I didn't have a suitable drill for the tapping. According to my charts I needed a 1.8mm No. 50 or 0.0709" drill. When going to my numbers drill box the only one missing is ............yep No. 50. So that job was put to one side and instead I decided to make the two camshaft bushes. The first went well enough and was reamed 0.250" and was pleased when it fits the camshaft nicely.

The second bush however produced another problem when checking the main block casting. This one was bought second and had some work done by the previous owner. All the work when checked previously was of a high standard, however the two holes bored previously were not the same. One, the timing end was spot on but the second was slightly oval! So worked stopped on the bush because it will need to be oversized, and the casting set up on my angle plate on the mill and the hole bored circular. When the finished 'round' hole was measured the bush will need to be some 35 thou oversize.

I can't see this will cause any problems yet, but will keep my fingers crossed. I will be using some hardening powder for both the nuts and the tappets, for the first time so that will be interesting. I have had it for a couple of years now and never used it before so if anyone has any tips additional to the 'normal' instructions I have, that would be very helpful.

 

[lordedmond]

I assume you have Kasite /sp

what I do for small parts is to dip the area you require to harden in water then dip that into the powder , then heat to red and quench in water.

Stuart

 

[Metal Mickey]

Hello Stuart, My powder is shown in the picture below. Its a different name and the instructions vary from your method. Did you develop your method? or is it modified from the instruction similar to those recommended with my powder Eternite?

1. Heat metal to 900 to 1000 degrees.
2. Place in container under powder and agitate making sure item completely covered.
3 Leave for 30 minutes then remove and quench with oil or water.
4. Repeat the process at least once. (may take more goes depending on metal)

It then gives a warning regarding fire hazard if left uncovered.

Mike

 

[lordedmond]

yes I have developed the method

the reason is that the method with my powder resulted in the powder being blown off , eg it would not stick to small parts ( small rod eyes and links )
it is very economic with the powder and causes less cleanup

I would recommend that you test with some of the same metal and test the results using both method ( what works for me may not work for your parts )

Stuart

 

[Metal Mickey]

yes I have developed the method

the reason is that the method with my powder resulted in the powder being blown off , eg it would not stick to small parts ( small rod eyes and links )
it is very economic with the powder and causes less cleanup

I would recommend that you test with some of the same metal and test the results using both method ( what works for me may not work for your parts )

Stuart

Will do Stuart, I will let you know the results.

Progress over the last couple of days has seen 8 tappets made and another valve guide. The tappets went well enough and here are a couple of pictures. One little point of interest maybe is the depth stop tube I made for the slot cutter. This was yesterdays solution to ensuring the same depth, today.....used a dial indicator resting against a clamp made to go over the tailstock tube. Reason for two methods? Forgot I had the clamp! Tunnel vision strikes again!

The photos are

1st: One of the camshaft bushes being turned.
2nd: Angle of oil hole found from plans using digital angle rulers.
3rd: Vice set to same angle.
4th: Current progress on the Port engine.

 

[lordedmond]

One point that is of interest to me is why you made the reverse direction camshaft?

I thought the normal marine for small craft was to drive one prop from the flywheel end and one from the fan pulley end thus putting the engine exhaust to the outboard side of both engines

Stuart

 

[Metal Mickey]

One point that is of interest to me is why you made the reverse direction camshaft?

I thought the normal marine for small craft was to drive one prop from the flywheel end and one from the fan pulley end thus putting the engine exhaust to the outboard side of both engines

Stuart

Hello Stuart, rightly or wrongly I decided that since the engines were designed to run in either direction I would have them run contra rotationally which should help in straight line steerage and manoeuvrability. I have only named the engines port and starboard at the moment to ensure that the parts made match. When completed which side they go in relation to routing exhaust should be sorted then........unless of course I have made a big error? Both camshafts turn in opposite direction to each other (with a massive help from Steve Huck's I may add).

Hope that clears up any confusion. If not I may have the exhausts running up a funnel! :big:

 

[lordedmond]

Thanks for the info

when I was at work about 13 years ago we had 6 16 cylinder diesel engines ( 96 litre 1000Hp ) they had the option that you have done to be provided with a alternate camshaft so you are in good company , keep up the good work

Stuart

 

[Metal Mickey]

Those were a little larger than my engines Stuart!

Today I managed to complete the remaining bronze valve guide blanks for one engine. For the valve side of one seal I only have the 8 sets of twin nuts to make (then harden with the tappets.) and bore out the valve guides. Once those are done I am going back to the Fowler traction engine to do some plate work for a change, and continue making the tender.

 

[rockets]

Looking good MM. What kind of vessel are these beauties destined for? (Model boat fanatic!)

Rockets

 

[Metal Mickey]

Looking good MM. What kind of vessel are these beauties destined for? (Model boat fanatic!)

Rockets

Hello Rockets, the boat is a Fairey Marine Huntsman around 48" long. A picture below shows a full size version. It is supposed to be being built by my brother (I challenged him but I suspect I will be finishing it when the engines are finished).

 

[lordedmond]

e bar gum that brings back a few memories

I used to have one of those fitted a single veco 61 glow plug motor and fitted a tuned pipe ;D to it , had to put about 4 pounds of lead in the back end to correct the water line , but by ekk did it shift

a friend fitted a OS 80 to his but it would not perform not sure why tho

I should go well with those two motors

Stuart

 

[rockets]

Thanks Mike, I can't remember if I asked you before, memory's not what it was!

I can't wait to see the end result, I really like the Huntsman. I'm a big fan of the Westbury designs, hopefully I'll hone my skills enough to have a crack at one myself. My choice would be big Vic Smeed boat like the Vivacity.

Rockets.

 

[Metal Mickey]

Well its been a stressful last 10 days or so....why? because I have been working in wood! As some of you may remember I ***&^^% wood! If it wasn't for our new granddaughter of 6 months old these 'projects wouldn't have taken place.

So after finishing them what would I work in next? ....yes wood! I have been working on making some wooden patterns for the Seal. The two engines being built are to run contra rotation propellers so I will be taking advantage of Edgar T Westbury's design that allows the engines to run in reverse. However that means I need two castings to be handed so a phone call to http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/The_Seal___Edgar_T_Westbury.html
was made. Kirk Burwell had a look around and it seems that whilst this design feature allowed for reverse running, no one had ever ordered any castings, so no patterns exist.

Kirk did say that if I produced the patterns and 'lent' them to him he would get some cast. Being a novice pattern maker, and worried about producing good enough quality, I am going to cast some myself. If they come out well enough, then they can go. If not, then adjustment or Mk2 versions will need to be produced. I hope to cast some over the next few days at the latest.

One of the benefits of making the wooden toys was that I made use at long last of a bearing set for a 'lazy Susan'. It may be simple but really does help when spraying parts.

Below are a few photo's but please bear in mind they are not finished! I also decided that since I was going to fire up the furnace I would cast other items set aside for just such a session. So a table for my bandsaw, a pen stand for displaying....pens....and a coupling for my power table feed (not sure it will work as a pattern). I want to produce a good table for the bandsaw to fit in with an idea to cut my expensive HT steel in two for both crankshafts.

Well that's me up to date. If you want to see the wooden toys (nothing special believe me!) then they are on my blog website http://www.mikes models.com/blog

 

[HS93]

this may be of interest I help a pal out with his Huntsman 28 its 42 " long and is powered by a brushless motor I made and installed the belt reduction for it and the running gear.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/user/pmdevlin1#p/u/3/VObcKxNWh_c[/ame]
not the best of video's

Peter

 

[Metal Mickey]

Lovely boat! Watched the video and that's some performance! Now I am a little worried how ours will perform with twin petrol engines!

 

[HS93]

I had the same 42" Huntsman when I was very young with a 15 cc gannet in it(petrol) and it went well, when you get to prop positioning give me a shout as you have to be very carfull with this boat, is yours wood of fiberglass and is it a kit as I may be able to give you some advice.

peter