die filer from scrollsaw?

[Ed T]

I have an old Craftsman 24" throat scroll-saw that I have been tripping over for almost 40 years. It is used almost never and takes up a lot of floor space, I have been questing for a die filer, but I've had no luck. The saw has about a 1 1/4" stroke. So, I am seeking opinions on cutting up the never used scroll-saw and making it into an occasionally used die filer. The basic mechanism seems appropriate and it has a nice cast iron table with angle adjustment and I think it would work. Not too concerned about the outrage of cutting up the big cast iron base, but I'm sure some people will be in-sensed by that aspect. Any thoughts?

 

[canadianhorsepower]

love the idea with variable speed controlThm:

 

[chipenter]

Funny that I took a Sealy scroll saw to the scrap man today and cane away with a 4 foot length of 2.5 inch ally , haven used it for ages found some blades and burnt the motor out cutting 1\2 inch ally .

 

[petertha]

I have made some abrasive 'attachments' in the past for use on my scroll saw (intended for woodworking). Basically the profiles were rectangular & round bar sections using adhesive sandpaper attached to the face. That way I could nicely finish any closed, internal cutout profiles like straights or corner radius etc. They were just sections of aluminum or wood with a slot in back to accept a spare blade, which was set in with epoxy glue. That way I could use the sander attachment in the saw's normal end blade holders. It worked fine, but it was only finishing light duty material, 1/4" thick aircraft ply at most. I could probably do thin sheet metal too. But I'm not sure one could apply a lot of feed pressure on thicker metal work like a die filer might withstand. My Dewalt scroll saw uses 5" non-pin-end blades. I think a lot of hobbysist blades use cross-pin-ends. Either way, you might have to examine beefing up or modifying the end holder mechanism. I also have a 1" belt sander & it removes material much quicker. Its more rigid & controlled, but of course, it is no good on inside closed hole profiles.

 

[Ed T]

The main use for me would be for inside features and inside corners and on parts where the trusty 1" belt sander is too big or too fierce. It's not the kind of a tool one needs everyday, but it seems like it would be handy from time to time. Certainly the entire blade holding mechanism would need to be rehashed and some clamping arrangement made to hold a file rather than a tiny saw blade. I might add a linear bering to the oscillating shaft to help absorb the higher lateral loads I'd anticipate with filing. I'll have a better idea of that when / if I get inside the thing. While this is near the top of the posting list, does anyone have an idea of what the typical stroke rate is for a die filer? I'm guessing a good bit slower than the scroll-saw, but I don't know.

 

[Philjoe5]

Ed,
I recently acquired this Oliver Instrument Die Filer.

I've used it a little. It has a foot operated variable speed switch. I find I get better results at slow speed, much slower than that you'd get from a scroll saw. If you'd like I can take some measurements next time I'm in the shop, probably tomorrow.

Note the overarm for giving some support when needed.

Phil

 

[Ed T]

Philjoe: That would be helpful. Just a rough measurement of the pulley diameters and the rpm of the motor would do it. I can already tell that the pulley ratio is WAY different than on the saw. A guess on the stroke would be good too although it probably is what it is on the saw. I still like to know if I'm in the ballpark. Thanks too for the pic of the file support arm. Looks like the back-up wheel for the file is or could be a skateboard wheel. The cast support arm looks really stiff, I'll bet you could really lean on the file with that in place.
Thanks,
ET

 

[Philjoe5]

Hi Ed,
Here's what the die filer has for specs:

Driver pulley = 1 5/8"
Driven pulley = 7"
Stroke = 1 1/4"

Motor speed seems like 1750 rpm, the spec plate is missing.

Stroke rate is somewhere around 200 - 250 per minute. So maybe a 2:1 reduction in speed going through what I'm thinking is a gear box.

Hope this helps and good luck with your project. The little bit of practice I've had shows it's nicely suited to making square holes. Something that a ham-fisted soul such as myself has always had difficulty with.

Phil

 

[Tin Falcon]

with a little imagination you could probably adapt the scroll saw to hold swiss pattern files.
Tin

 

[GWRdriver]

Ed,
Sounds to me like it could work. I think the key component will be the reciprocating mechanism, specifically the ram, and how well and how long it will wear against the lateral forces acting on the file. You mention it will be for light work, and that's in its favor, but the ram will have the most potential as a trouble spot. As has been mentioned most industrial die filers have a substantial overarm assembly to support the files against lateral forces and there's no reason why you couldn't cobble up some sort of overarm or bracket to do the same thing.

A die filer has been one of the most useful additions to my workshop in recent years and will become even more useful in the future.

 

[Ed T]

Thanks to all for your interest and comments.
Phil,
Thanks for the research. Very helpful.
Tin,
Great idea. I think I'll incorporate that capability. It would probably only be a small step to make it so that the existing machine would accept pattern files, but most of my work is a bit big for that size file and a big goal here is to make the whole thing smaller. Right now I think it's over 3 feet long and 18" wide. I'm stuck with the width, but It can get lots shorter.
GWR,
You are correct and the lateral force issue is one of my biggest concerns. I haven't taken it apart yet to see how it's made, but it appears that there is a separate mechanism inside the big casting where the "action" occurs. There is room to put a lower support roller under the table to absorb the load. It is my plan to have an upper support roller as well and I may see if I can utilize some linear bearings on the reciprocating shaft since I have some and this might be the day they finally come in handy. I'm thinking the rollers are some mutation of a skateboard wheel. That should last pretty well running on the backside of the file and they are cheap and available and I have some, so I will probably try them.

 

[kchmn]

Ed,
There is no need to "cut up the Craftsman scroll saw. Just remove the overarm and mount your filke in the chuck. They were made for double duty when they were new. There should be a nut, about a 3/4 on the back side of the overarm that removes it.

 

[GWRdriver]

Hi Ed,
Well if nothing else it will be a grand experiment. But I intended to add to my previous post to say something further about overarms. Almost all good DFs came equipped with them, or designed to have them added later, but as many as not which I've seen come up for sale have lost their overarms over time. My first one (a tabletop Oliver) lost its overarm eons ago, but it has done very well for several years in spite of this because the work I tend to do wouldn't push it to the point where It needed to have one. You certainly can easily push a thin file out of perpendicular from simple bending and that would be what would motivate me to install an overarm.

I'd say take it one step at a time. I wouldn't worry about an overarm assembly until it appeared the machine (or bending files) needed one, and then I see no reason why a garden variety sealed ball bearing wouldn't make a perfectly good roller.

 

[Antman]

Anyone make a fileholder for a shaper?
Ant

 

[Ed T]

KCHMN,
Yeah, I saw the filing stuff in the manual.One of my main reasons for doing this is to make the thing smaller and I can see no way to do that w/o cutting. I hate to do it just on principle, but I need to do something with it and the market value is way less than even a die filer casting kit.
GWR,
Thanks for the input. I had considered using just a ball bearing to back up the file but both the bearing and the file are pretty hard and I had this vision of the bearing wearing a dent in the once good other side of the file or the file eventually eating the bearing race. Not sure which, if either, would actually happen but using a modified skate wheel side steps both issues and I think the urethane would be fairly durable. Don't know, we'll see how it goes.
Thanks again,
EdT

 

[Dunc1]

http://www.victornet.com/subdepartments/Parallel-Machine-Files/2215.html?id=TzmenX8s die-filer machine files
www.fedfile.com ditto
www.artcotools.com ditto
Search also "parallel machine files" or " reciprocating machine files"

Above sites offer die filing machine files (cut on the down-stroke).

 

[oleguyinTexas]

I have an old Craftsman 24" throat scroll-saw that I have been tripping over for almost 40 years. It is used almost never and takes up a lot of floor space, I have been questing for a die filer, but I've had no luck. The saw has about a 1 1/4" stroke. So, I am seeking opinions on cutting up the never used scroll-saw and making it into an occasionally used die filer. The basic mechanism seems appropriate and it has a nice cast iron table with angle adjustment and I think it would work. Not too concerned about the outrage of cutting up the big cast iron base, but I'm sure some people will be in-sensed by that aspect. Any thoughts?

Go for it......personally am big on using/converting things to make them productive in the shop. Great idea on converting the scroll-saw. I made a die filer last year from a kit, and really enjoy using it.

Good luck with the conversion

 

[GWRdriver]

. . . using a modified skate wheel side steps both issues and I think the urethane would be fairly durable. -

You're right of course, not being a skateboarder I had forgotten that skate wheels are a different animal these days (not the stamped steel of my childhood.)

 

[Lockstocknbarrel]

Hi Guys,
I know I have said this before, but if I want to know how to build any item, i do the following first.
1....Go to Google Search,
2....Click on Images in the top bar,
3....Type in HOMEMADE...........in this case Die Filer...............OR ANY OTHER TOOL YOU WISH TO MAKE.
4....Click on any image and go to the web page.
5.....As per this link......
[ame]http://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1920&bih=957&q=homemade+die+filer&oq=homemade+die+filer&gs_l=img.12...3386.10972.0.17724.18.9.0.9.9.0.227.1781.0j8j1.9.0...0.0...1ac.1.4.img.zAp-RGZUo0c#imgrc=_[/ame]

6....Simple.

Kindest Regards
Beagles.