Cutter grinder

[photopro]

I have the whole machine in my shop and it's become my best friend. I purchased it a tool auction probably 12 years ago or so. It only took me10 years more to learn how to use it properly from the translated from the Chinese manual that came with it. I subscribe to a forum called The Tool and Die Guy mainly because he has a 5 part series of videos on how to use a Deckel which is similar. Once I viewed those, it was a piece of cake. I use mine mostly for making single lip cutters which come in handy for all sorts of things. Only recently have I tried sharpening end mills with it and that is working out fairly well. I can't do self centering mills on it though. Not sure if it's the wrong wheel or I just can't position the end mill properly with the stock setup. After sharpening those, I have to remove the remaining little bump in the center with a Dremel tool which defeats the ability to drill solid material. Not a great loss really. I didn't know that you could purchase just the swivel unit you showed in your post. The shaft it rides on appears to be a precision ground part, so you might want to keep that in mind if you build your own.

 

[goldstar31]

Yes- I have one as well

Mine came with a couple of straight cup wheels- one carborundum and the other a diamond one.

However, I added a diamond taper cup wheel.

Best Wishes

Norman

 

[BaronJ]

Hi John
Theoretically, you need a 1/6th HP 2880RPM Fracmo type motor.
I might---MIGHT have one.

I now that years ago I stripped a Fracmo motor- speed unknown as it is under a small earthquake.

If I can pull it and de-cypher the plate - cos it had TWO sets of reduction gears- and a condenser of sorts.

I'm still in shielded lock down but--- have you anyone driving up from Sheffield to Newcastle( Gosforth)?
( The return rail fare even with a Senior Citizens Rail Card is or seems to be £47)

Have a think as you progress.

Cheers

N

Hi Norman,

Thankyou for the offer ! Yes a small fractional HP motor would be ideal. I'm thinking of trying to mount the motor and spindle in a similar way to the Quorn. The mounting pillar is only 20 mm diameter so I'm trying to balance the weight roughly equal on both sides of the column.

As far as traveling I'm only an hour away, but I'm in the same boat as you, and supposed to be shielding.

Stay safe.

 

[goldstar31]

If the Moderators and staff will forgive me!

John
I have an almost complete set of unmachined castings for the Mark 1 Quorn. All that seems to be missing is the two castings which are fitted to the 1.25" round pillar. These hold the spindle which you have demonstrated. I presume the OD of the spindle- cartridge is an 1.000" pr more modern 25MM.
However, the Bonelle is Very similar and the fabricated alternative to. the Quorn seems suitable.

So potentially we have the makings of a Quorn together- if I'm lucky- a motor. Even if it is only a 1440rpm all that is needed is a larger spindle pulley-------- because I've dome that with a 1440 rpm ex washing machine motor

Yes we are BOTH in isolation and shielded- and me without transport. Frankly it is to possible to bundle up what I've got- and get the lot to you on a carrier.
Cost? A simple Thank You suffices amongst friends

Worth a thought or three

Norman

NB Thanks to the staff for continual tolerance of help

 

[BaronJ]

Hi Norman,

Thankyou very much, I'll mail you direct.

 

[goldstar31]

Gordon

I presume that you have now the plans etc for the Tinker
Obviously, I'm now curious about your views on it

Cheers


Norman

 

[Gordon]

Gordon

I presume that you have now the plans etc for the Tinker
Obviously, I'm now curious about your views on it

Cheers


Norman

I still do not have the plans yet. He does not take credit cards or Pay Pal so I had to mail a check. He should have that by now but I don't know when I will actually receive the plans. With the mail deliberately slowed down in US it may be a while.

 

[Gordon]

I contacted them to see if they had received the order and they said that mail between US and Canada is taking up to 3-4 weeks so I may have the plans by 2021. How did we go from a world power to sub third world?

 

[nel2lar]

I have a plan for grinding end mills that uses 5-C collets. If interested PM me.
Nelson

 

[Gordon]

Nelson: I am interested. I have sent you a PM.

The more that I look at this the more confused I get. Plans look like they are way to complex for my simple use or too simple to be useful and accurate.

Perhaps my initial idea of the $170 unit from eBay is worth a look for a good start. It looks like it is adjustable in every direction and mostly needs the grinder portion.

 

[goldstar31]

I understand and sympathise but \doing the ends pf a say an e nd mill may only involve 'touching up tWO lips- both at 180 degrees from each other.

Please don't be offended if I describe a very simple holder?

Take a piece of square bar and drill a hole- say 1/2" bore to 'see what you are doing- with a 1/2" end mill.
Drill and tap for a little grub screw.
Put the drill in so that it the 2 cutter edged are horizontal when the laid flat.
Tilt your table- it could be plywood at 5 grees and present the first edge to take a tiny grind. Take a careful touchwith a grinder. Feel happy and flip the holder over through 180 degrees- and take a light grind as before.

OK it is a bit crude etc but it gives an idea. To do a 4 cutting edges one uses all four sides of the square bar.

To do the 2nd 'lands' the table is tilted 15 degrees.


As I said, it does need refing but but I hope that you get the idea.

Cheers


Norman

 

[Gordon]

I understand and sympathise but \doing the ends pf a say an e nd mill may only involve 'touching up tWO lips- both at 180 degrees from each other.

Please don't be offended if I describe a very simple holder?

Take a piece of square bar and drill a hole- say 1/2" bore to 'see what you are doing- with a 1/2" end mill.
Drill and tap for a little grub screw.
Put the drill in so that it the 2 cutter edged are horizontal when the laid flat.
Tilt your table- it could be plywood at 5 grees and present the first edge to take a tiny grind. Take a careful touchwith a grinder. Feel happy and flip the holder over through 180 degrees- and take a light grind as before.

OK it is a bit crude etc but it gives an idea. To do a 4 cutting edges one uses all four sides of the square bar.

To do the 2nd 'lands' the table is tilted 15 degrees.


As I said, it does need refing but but I hope that you get the idea.

Cheers


Norman

I have thought about trying to do something similar using my 5c collet blocks. I have the square and the hex blocks. Mostly I need a better table and a way to put guides on it. For now perhaps I should just concentrate on making a better table and be content with just touching up the ends on an end mill.

 

[goldstar31]

A top slide would be an improvement but I set off simply to give you the basis

Best Wishes

Norman

 

[goldstar31]

I was clearing some old entries on the conputer i one of my odd moments and found , the draings of the Tinker tool grinder.

i had bought the casings and original UK drawings and didn't feel that what I now find on file to transgress from copyright responsibilities.

I got into the realms of more than 56 pages and simply wondered if anyome ( apart from JohnB) was actually building anything.

Well now?? Comments please

Norman

 

[BaronJ]

I was clearing some old entries on the conputer i one of my odd moments and found , the draings of the Tinker tool grinder.

i had bought the casings and original UK drawings and didn't feel that what I now find on file to transgress from copyright responsibilities.

I got into the realms of more than 56 pages and simply wondered if anyome ( apart from JohnB) was actually building anything.

Well now?? Comments please

Norman

Hi Norman, Guys,

Somewhere I have some parts for making a Tinker ! The original drawings disappeared years ago when the original workshop was moved out of. I lost an awful lot of stuff at that time.

As far as building anything, someone commented about making tools to make tools ! I need to put keyways into some pulleys, so I've made a broach to do the job.

This was just a bit of scrap 12 mm bright bar. I gave it a skim to get it spot on 12 mm diameter as it wasn't quite on size.

After milling a 3 mm wide slot down part of its length to take a piece of 3 mm square HSS tool steel I then drilled a 4 mm hole and threaded it 10X32 for an hex grubscrew.

The HSS tool steel was ground at one end to form a cutter, very similar to a lathe tool. The grubscrew is used to push the cutter out and control the depth of cut.

Here you can see the broach in use. Note the spring wound around the shaft holding the cutter in place and applying force to pull the cutter into the slot. This makes the ability to control cutting depth very precisely.

In this picture the key slot has been finished at a depth of 1.6 mm.

And the finished pulley. Only two more pullies to do ! The other two are 8 mm diameter holes and will have 2 mm wide key slots in them.

 

[goldstar31]

'A Funny thing happened to me on the way to the Forum'. It's an English joke

Well I was clearing unwanted rubbis from some bit on my Mac PC!

It was 56 pages of the most recent Tinker and Mini Tinter. To do the basic Tinker there is only a week's work-- or so they say
I

So have fun.

Norman

 

[Gordon]

I have been playing around with trying to make a cutter grinder. I should have known better than to just start doing stuff without an actual design. I have made and remade practically every piece. I should have done a cad drawing/design before I started. I started with a home made drill sharpener which I had made years ago and never used. At this point I have basically made a spindle grinding wheel mounted to a column which raises and lowers. I started by reworking a cheap cross slide vise which I had but that is bulky and crude so that is going out. I am basically using the Harold Hall design in the Milling: A complete course" for the feed. I started with a couple of different ideas for tilting the tool and finally ended up with rotating the head. I ordered the Tinker plans but after waiting three weeks for the mail to get to Canada from US I contacted them and told them to just destroy the check when it came because at that point I was into design #732 which grew from looking at too many YouTube videos and internet searches. If my time was worth minimum wage I could have bought enough cutters to last me the rest of my life. I am sure that I will go through several more redesign phases before I either have a working machine or just give up.

 

[goldstar31]

Having gone through the drawings-- not the text, I think that you will have missed a very competent piece of machinery.

I made a Quorn because the impossible is always a challenge. well it is if you are not an engineer

 

[awake]

Hi Norman, Guys,

Somewhere I have some parts for making a Tinker ! The original drawings disappeared years ago when the original workshop was moved out of. I lost an awful lot of stuff at that time.

As far as building anything, someone commented about making tools to make tools ! I need to put keyways into some pulleys, so I've made a broach to do the job.

View attachment 119283
This was just a bit of scrap 12 mm bright bar. I gave it a skim to get it spot on 12 mm diameter as it wasn't quite on size.
View attachment 119284
After milling a 3 mm wide slot down part of its length to take a piece of 3 mm square HSS tool steel I then drilled a 4 mm hole and threaded it 10X32 for an hex grubscrew.
View attachment 119285
The HSS tool steel was ground at one end to form a cutter, very similar to a lathe tool. The grubscrew is used to push the cutter out and control the depth of cut.
View attachment 119286
Here you can see the broach in use. Note the spring wound around the shaft holding the cutter in place and applying force to pull the cutter into the slot. This makes the ability to control cutting depth very precisely.
View attachment 119287
In this picture the key slot has been finished at a depth of 1.6 mm.
View attachment 119288
And the finished pulley. Only two more pullies to do ! The other two are 8 mm diameter holes and will have 2 mm wide key slots in them.

Great design! What is the smallest key way cutter that you have made this way?

 

[goldstar31]

Great design! What is the smallest key way cutter that you have made this way?

With the right grade of abrasive, the width of a pubic hair on a gnat

Chaddock and his Quorn made- not sharpened 1/10th dia milling cutters for his vee engine.
With diamond paste, you get mirror finished tools which give mirror finish work.

If you read the 'book', lathes are designed to prepare work for centre-less grinding but 'we' arely hve such things in the home workshop and we have to adopt things like files and 'papers' - unless we can grind and hone tools.

Somebody will disagree- as they do.