5 inch vertical boiler plans.
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portlandron
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Hi Everyone
I built a 6" boiler in the last 12 months the plans were sent to me by another modeler they originally came from Model Engineering Supplies 7 Reeves Close Tullyamarine Victoria 3043. This is in Australia. As the plans I have were sent to me as a favor I will have to ask if I can pass them on. I can be contacted at [email protected]. The plans I have were originally 5" and changed to 6"
I built a 6" boiler in the last 12 months the plans were sent to me by another modeler they originally came from Model Engineering Supplies 7 Reeves Close Tullyamarine Victoria 3043. This is in Australia. As the plans I have were sent to me as a favor I will have to ask if I can pass them on. I can be contacted at [email protected]. The plans I have were originally 5" and changed to 6"
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I sent an email. I went to the web sight but there are no pictures of a finished boiler. Looks like I could buy the drawings from them. I sure would like to see a picture of their 5 inch vertical boiler.
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I just now saw the picture of yours. Beautiful.
Thank you. Nice work!
I have been making boilers following K N. Harris's principles, for 25 years or so. But there are more "up-to-date" ideas from K. Hiraoka In Live Steam and outdoor railroading magazine, Nov 2006. Get a back copy. The ASME Codes are just a bit more rigorous, by limiting silver soldered boilers to 100psi. This is sound Engineering in my experience so you should buy a back-copy and follow those rules, allied to the Ausi rules you have. KNH has a lot of different designs though, and these basic designs should be checked and revised to meet your rules.
This is real Engineering when you design a boiler, so it is worth being a member of a club for the professional support and testing they can provide.
Also, you should get the back issue of the safety valve design.
One further thing you'll need to decide is how to fuel and heat the boiler. A club-friend of mine has made a successful model of a Clayton Wagon, coal fired at an estimated 27kW. He has not managed to get near that with gas burners, and is still trying. I have made ceramic burners up to around 5kW, but am now researching wire-mesh as the higher temp ability may get me up by double the heat output for firebox size. This is difficult Engineering! So determine what heat you need following KNH, before you do anything else.
Good luck and keep us informed as the story unfolds.
K
This is real Engineering when you design a boiler, so it is worth being a member of a club for the professional support and testing they can provide.
Also, you should get the back issue of the safety valve design.
One further thing you'll need to decide is how to fuel and heat the boiler. A club-friend of mine has made a successful model of a Clayton Wagon, coal fired at an estimated 27kW. He has not managed to get near that with gas burners, and is still trying. I have made ceramic burners up to around 5kW, but am now researching wire-mesh as the higher temp ability may get me up by double the heat output for firebox size. This is difficult Engineering! So determine what heat you need following KNH, before you do anything else.
Good luck and keep us informed as the story unfolds.
K
If you're still looking for boiler plans, I used this book and it was brilliant. Explained everything really well. I modified the plans to fit the 3.5in tubing I had.
Digital copies are available for £10, which I thought was pretty reasonable.
Building Small Boilers for Gas Firing (Digital book) | Camden Miniature Steam Services
Hope that helps.
Del
Digital copies are available for £10, which I thought was pretty reasonable.
Building Small Boilers for Gas Firing (Digital book) | Camden Miniature Steam Services
Hope that helps.
Del
Please tell us a few things and we can advise:
K
- the thickness of your piece of tube?
- Do you know the provenance of the copper? (Unknown, or domestic water pipe, or industrial of some spec?).
- What do you propose for end material?
- Can you dish the ends? (Takes skill and time).
- I assume you'll be buying proprietary copper tubes for flues?
- What will it power?
- What fuel are you planning?
K
JLW: Just as a guide (not intended to deter you in any way, just guide you the right way) here is an extract from the Southern Federation rules: based on UK regulations.:
"Design Verification
5.1 The constructor of a boiler to other than a recognised design available through the model engineering trade and/or press shall produce design drawings and demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Inspector, either by calculation or by well-proven example, that the design and materials used have adequate strength.
Boiler Test Code 2018 – Volume 1 8
5.2 If no Working Pressure is stated on the drawings, or in accompanying text, the boiler shall be treated as a new design and calculations shall be produced and validated.
5.3 If a boiler is being made to a published or established design but is intended to be used at a higher pressure than that specified by the designer, it shall be treated as a new design."
I trust this gives you an idea why we ask lots of questions?
A simple mistake: some people take a drawing of an "approved design" and use materials that are not quite the same... - e.g. a different diameter, different joint construction, or a bit thinner somewhere.... Therefore they need a new set of calculations, according to the Regulations applicable in their country. (USA, UK, Australia, Japan are all different from each other). Are you in the UK? (Grammatically, I guess maybe you are from one of the Colonies? - so UK practice is not necessarily what you need to know?).
My Design calcs follow ASME, and meet UK Regs. as well. Then boilers are examined and tested independently by the club of which I am a member. My club also has experts at silver soldering, and I urge you to join your local club to get their assistance and advice. If you have never silver soldered a job as big as your planned 5 inch boiler, then you really you must get the support from a club, so they can witness the fit and assembly and have that knowledge to be able to test the boiler when completed.
The largest Boiler I have made is 4 inch diameter, and handling 3 blow-lamps, solder and flux, takes a lot of hands and planning! And the radiant heat off the job (mostly buried in sand) was cooking the welders' gloves I was wearing.
Cheers,
K
"Design Verification
5.1 The constructor of a boiler to other than a recognised design available through the model engineering trade and/or press shall produce design drawings and demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Inspector, either by calculation or by well-proven example, that the design and materials used have adequate strength.
Boiler Test Code 2018 – Volume 1 8
5.2 If no Working Pressure is stated on the drawings, or in accompanying text, the boiler shall be treated as a new design and calculations shall be produced and validated.
5.3 If a boiler is being made to a published or established design but is intended to be used at a higher pressure than that specified by the designer, it shall be treated as a new design."
I trust this gives you an idea why we ask lots of questions?
A simple mistake: some people take a drawing of an "approved design" and use materials that are not quite the same... - e.g. a different diameter, different joint construction, or a bit thinner somewhere.... Therefore they need a new set of calculations, according to the Regulations applicable in their country. (USA, UK, Australia, Japan are all different from each other). Are you in the UK? (Grammatically, I guess maybe you are from one of the Colonies? - so UK practice is not necessarily what you need to know?).
My Design calcs follow ASME, and meet UK Regs. as well. Then boilers are examined and tested independently by the club of which I am a member. My club also has experts at silver soldering, and I urge you to join your local club to get their assistance and advice. If you have never silver soldered a job as big as your planned 5 inch boiler, then you really you must get the support from a club, so they can witness the fit and assembly and have that knowledge to be able to test the boiler when completed.
The largest Boiler I have made is 4 inch diameter, and handling 3 blow-lamps, solder and flux, takes a lot of hands and planning! And the radiant heat off the job (mostly buried in sand) was cooking the welders' gloves I was wearing.
Cheers,
K
JLW: Here's some more info...
Extracted from "Live steam and outdoor railroading": Nov 2006.
PLEASE buy a copy to get the whole text and understand what boiler design entails.
Your boiler shell is good for 100psi MAXIMUM internal pressure. (If silver soldered). This means the SAFETY valve (NOT "max working pressure control" valve!) should be lifting at or before 100 psi. - I would set mine at 95 psi as if ever it gets a bit sticky it will still keep me SAFE. The Safety valve should then be blowing - with MAXIMUM FIRE AND DRAUGHT before the pressure reaches 106psi - according to the ASME regulations. (Correct me if I am wrong?). If you have a second pressure relief valve to act as a "pressure control" valve, then I suggest it achieves full BLOW before 99 psi. (It may be lifting at 93 psi?).
Aside: As an Engineer, not a loco driver - I always think the guys who ride around with SAFETY valves blowing are simply wasting steam, ergo fuel, and it's just plain bad practice to drive on the SAFETY limiter. Would you drive around town - or open roads at the MAXIMUM POWER and use ABS for all your braking? - Then "why?" have the boiler fired at MAXIMUM SAFETY?
I steam static models - at the club shows, and the only time the safety "lifts" is either on an annual test or the daily check at the start of each day's steaming - Before I start running any engines.
Sorry, I was on my hobby horse.... and hopefully such remarks do not apply to any readers here. End of sermon.
For strength when designing your boiler, I suggest you plan everything else to be strong enough for over 100 psi (Like the shell) then you'll (probably) have a safe boiler. It costs very little in materials for that tiny extra bit of thickness, or stay, and it will help ensure that no-one gives away a "scrapped" boiler in many a decade. (You would be surprised at how many boilers are really rubbish, if not dangerous!). The extra stiffness of under-stressed material helps the longevity of the silver soldered joints - which can be subjected to fatigue and stress cracking with many heating and cooling cycles of the boiler. - So this is perhaps more complex than just joining a few bits of copper together!
Cheers! - Enjoy the build.
(If I have upset anyone, let's discuss. I can be wrong - my wife tells me often enough!).
K
Extracted from "Live steam and outdoor railroading": Nov 2006.
PLEASE buy a copy to get the whole text and understand what boiler design entails.
Your boiler shell is good for 100psi MAXIMUM internal pressure. (If silver soldered). This means the SAFETY valve (NOT "max working pressure control" valve!) should be lifting at or before 100 psi. - I would set mine at 95 psi as if ever it gets a bit sticky it will still keep me SAFE. The Safety valve should then be blowing - with MAXIMUM FIRE AND DRAUGHT before the pressure reaches 106psi - according to the ASME regulations. (Correct me if I am wrong?). If you have a second pressure relief valve to act as a "pressure control" valve, then I suggest it achieves full BLOW before 99 psi. (It may be lifting at 93 psi?).
Aside: As an Engineer, not a loco driver - I always think the guys who ride around with SAFETY valves blowing are simply wasting steam, ergo fuel, and it's just plain bad practice to drive on the SAFETY limiter. Would you drive around town - or open roads at the MAXIMUM POWER and use ABS for all your braking? - Then "why?" have the boiler fired at MAXIMUM SAFETY?
I steam static models - at the club shows, and the only time the safety "lifts" is either on an annual test or the daily check at the start of each day's steaming - Before I start running any engines.
Sorry, I was on my hobby horse.... and hopefully such remarks do not apply to any readers here. End of sermon.
For strength when designing your boiler, I suggest you plan everything else to be strong enough for over 100 psi (Like the shell) then you'll (probably) have a safe boiler. It costs very little in materials for that tiny extra bit of thickness, or stay, and it will help ensure that no-one gives away a "scrapped" boiler in many a decade. (You would be surprised at how many boilers are really rubbish, if not dangerous!). The extra stiffness of under-stressed material helps the longevity of the silver soldered joints - which can be subjected to fatigue and stress cracking with many heating and cooling cycles of the boiler. - So this is perhaps more complex than just joining a few bits of copper together!
Cheers! - Enjoy the build.
(If I have upset anyone, let's discuss. I can be wrong - my wife tells me often enough!).
K
John Antliff
Well-Known Member
I designed and built a 6 inch vertical copper boiler a couple of years ago - I needed a source of steam to test locomotive accessories and fittings. It was my first boiler attempt: I was familiar with silver soldering having made and run a 7 and a quarter inch mogul steam locomotive for some years previously although I did not make the boiler for that locomotive. I consulted with our club boiler inspectors at each stage of the build and adhered to the Australian Miniature Boiler Safety Code (AMBSC) part 1 to ensure that the design and materials/components used were up to code. I videoed the making of this boiler see -
- you may find this video helpful in understanding the processes involved. I run this boiler on both gas, for convenience, and coal which produces noticeably more energy! The safety valves had to be modified to handle the increased steam production when coal was first used to enable the boiler to pass the steam accumulation test, part of the certification process and hence qualify for a certificate.
- you may find this video helpful in understanding the processes involved. I run this boiler on both gas, for convenience, and coal which produces noticeably more energy! The safety valves had to be modified to handle the increased steam production when coal was first used to enable the boiler to pass the steam accumulation test, part of the certification process and hence qualify for a certificate.
Hi John. One reason I enjoy these threads is the people. So many experts - of may different skills - able to teach us all how to do it properly and successfully.
Thanks for the video!
Ken
Thanks for the video!
Ken
John Antliff
Well-Known Member
Yes Ken you are right, that's why I lurk in the background to pick up ideas and information I often didn't know that I needed! It's a really good way to spend your time, there are pearls in nearly every thread!
An excellent tutorial. I suspect you have made a properly installed gas burner by now, but if you haven't, maybe I can advise? I have made many.
I assume the "bit of fun" giving that gorgeous beam engine too much steam initially, did not do any damage with the hammering that was audible? It was sweet and quiet when slowed, and it was good to see "the fireman" trying to regulate the fire to reduce the blow-off. A good demo of the boiler. I suggest you make a water-pump or generator to allow you to load the engine and boiler. And fit your whistle or siren! Your workmanship looks great, so a full system will be worthy of another video.
Thanks,
Ken
I assume the "bit of fun" giving that gorgeous beam engine too much steam initially, did not do any damage with the hammering that was audible? It was sweet and quiet when slowed, and it was good to see "the fireman" trying to regulate the fire to reduce the blow-off. A good demo of the boiler. I suggest you make a water-pump or generator to allow you to load the engine and boiler. And fit your whistle or siren! Your workmanship looks great, so a full system will be worthy of another video.
Thanks,
Ken
John Antliff
Well-Known Member
Thanks Steamchick. No I haven't delved into the mysteries of gas burners other than to stick my Sievert torch into the firehole although my friend with a 7.25 gauge single Fairlie loco has made a gas burner and had some good success. I was thinking of using some perforated ceramic from Poly models but have been busy with other more urgent matters. I've made 2 Weir pumps and one of them is on my Mogul loco and has worked without fail since 2015. You may have spotted a Westinghouse style water pump by the side of the boiler for water replenishment. This boiler was for a specific need i.e. steam for testing things, and it has provided that function well. I'm busy at the moment CNCing my small mill and I am "girding up my loins" and confidence before I turn the X axis ball screw ends ready for fitting. BTW the boiler now has superheaters and a whistle.
These are the best type: I just don't know (Yet) where to get materials and design criteria. MUCH more powerful thewn simple ceramic burners.
Just what you need?
Ken
Just what you need?
Ken
https://slideplayer.com/slide/3403261/Here's the technical bit.
Ken
Ken
